VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #6

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Have you bothered to read the 5 other threads full of THOUSANDS of comments about the murder, who, what, when, why and how, or are you just crashing the party late and assuming things?

We have discussed this murder more THAN ANYONE ANYWHERE and thats a fact, we are now all friends and to keep eachothers company WHILE WE WAIT FOR MORE INFO and not lose contact with eachother we are simply hanging around trying to keep the thread alive and having a GENERAL DISCUSSION about things that interest us.

If you want our feelings about the case and I can assure there is more credible research about this case on the 5 previous threads than anywhere else PERIOD, then go read them and stop assuming things because you skipped POINT A and went straight to POINT B.

Just think of it as hanging out at your weird uncle's house. He's always got interesting and weird stories which are only sometimes on the topic of conversation, and you are never quite sure whether he's pulling your leg because some of these tales are so outrageous. But if you pay attention, every once in a while, you realize that you learned something from him almost by accident .

Maybe you don't have such a crazy uncle in your family in which case you have my condolences. :(
 
Im glad you saw that.

Indeed the point pecisely!

I still have to admit that when had a cold a few weeks back I thoroughly enjoyed reading Brown's Lost Symbol. Trashy yes, but you know, sometimes that's good. ;)
 
Yep, we're just hanging out...bring all your stuff and drop it down with us - we could use anything new. Just understand that if we seem OT we are only taking slight detours to keep the thread active and keep each other company and it's GREAT because I'm learning all sorts of new things - the posters here are diverse and intelligent and extremely nice. So welcome; I like your sense of humor and allow us to digress a bit and you'll find it a favorite place to visit on the forum.

Carrie Frank was one of the local friends of Emma's - she is in the videos.

If Emma was not in total control of that household, then I fail to find any other explanation as to why a preacher, who is well aware of the dangers of the dark side, and a professor, who is well aware of the dangers of society and violence against, women - would not only allow their daughter to have a 20 year old man she met on the internet who is into vile horrorcore come stay at the home, BUT also DRIVE them to that "festival" of sorts. It brings all the mind boggling back that I experienced in the beginning.

Oh, and OT, I have my Torts midterm tonight, last one! Can't wait until tomorrow when I am not obligated to use my brain in the least!


Good luck on that test, if I were in the Bay id treat you to some sushi as a reward for all your hard work. You like sushi, great sushi up your way!
 
I still have to admit that when had a cold a few weeks back I thoroughly enjoyed reading Brown's Lost Symbol. Trashy yes, but you know, sometimes that's good. ;)

Sure they are fun books and movies but the serious researcher like you and I then have to deal with "oh you read too many dan brown books."

I have been studying this long before dan brown was around

Well you get the point. CiCi saw it immediately.
 
Just think of it as hanging out at your weird uncle's house. He's always got interesting and weird stories which are only sometimes on the topic of conversation, and you are never quite sure whether he's pulling your leg because some of these tales are so outrageous. But if you pay attention, every once in a while, you realize that you learned something from him almost by accident .

Maybe you don't have such a crazy uncle in your family in which case you have my condolences. :(

Actually I do have one AND NOW I AM ONE to my nephews and nieces LOL
 
And from a different perspective....

I threw "The DaVinci Code" across the room when I saw his "super high-level educated professional code-breakers" were impressed by... an anagram. And later failed to recognize a second one! Uh... Dan...?
 
I just want to say, that I enjoy this thread and read it everyday! I am a 54 year old Grandma with only a GED education, but I am also very open minded and my brain is comparable to a sponge. IMO, the regulars on this thread are very caring and understanding people.
I have followed this thread from the very beginning and since have questioned many of my own thoughts on life in general. I hope you all understand what I am trying to say!
 
I have really tried to keep my passion to a minimum here among you folks some of you havent seen me on other threads, its a jekyl hyde thing but I dont like these attacks on DM he is bringing up some very interesting discussion points about race and symbolism and what these secret societies represent and they DO REPRESENT THESE THINGS even if todays ignorant generation doesnt understand it. This is my life it is what I study and I wont have anyone coming in here telling us we are all a bunch of whackjobs because we dont get the inside joke of a bunch southern white college kids putting bags over their heads and parading around campus because its cool. That sort of thing has meaning and is still just as deeply hurtful to a black person as a swatzi is to me, a Jew.




Spare me.


I've been reading some of the things you and DM recommended. I get some strange looks on the subway when people start trying to see what I'm reading.
 
I honestly haven't read his argument, but what I'm saying is if the seal was adopted in 1789, then the use of fascism in it makes no sense, considering Mussolini's Italy didn't exist. At that point IMO you have to use the historical meaning of the symbol, power and authority. If we adopted that symbol in say 1989 then I'd be more inclined to attach the fascist meaning to it.

Everybody seems to be missing the fact that fasces were Roman to begin with. I'd say you are generally in agreement with my argument that symbols have no inherent meaning and only the meaning they are used to convey in any given context.
 
I am doing a disservice to Blou's well crafted argument here, but he is saying in part that the recent use of the symbol by the Italian fascists would over rule the prior use as simply a Roman symbol of power since that older meaning is no longer known to most people. Of course back in 1789 the situation would be different...

Not quite, the uses of the symbol by fascists would continue to be their uses. That would not preclude other entirely different uses. The use of fasces in the early development of this country's nationalist iconography have as much to do with associating our nascent democracy with an ancient and revered precursor as with alluding to the power of the emperor that fasces symbolized in ancient Rome.

Rushing off to other tasks, keep the pot stirred while I'm away.
 
Sure they are fun books and movies but the serious researcher like you and I then have to deal with "oh you read too many dan brown books."

I have been studying this long before dan brown was around

Well you get the point. CiCi saw it immediately.

I'm sure you don't mean it quite that way, but the redundant use of "serious researcher" on this thread seems just a little condescending. Self identification as such I mean in particular.
 
You do know that fasces don't stand for fascism right? They stand for power and authority. Fascism was derived from the fasces, not the other way around.

Yes, of course I realize that, it did indeed come from Rome but there was an even earlier usage and meaning of it and the important point to note is whether or not the blade on the axe is removed in the symbol, there is a rather important disntinction between the two and note that in the case of the Senate seal the blade is not removed. Interestingly that same same symbol hangs over the entrance to the private office of the President of the US, the Oval office. It is also used on many other Seals of various bodies and depts of the US govt.

What is important to note is that the symbol has a history of meaning a little more than just power, authority and unity as most mainstream books will indicate.

I dont have time right at the moment to get in to it but if these sort of things interest you I would suggest trying to track down a book by Manly Palmer Hall called "The Secret Teachings of All Ages" it is not an easy book to find but it is online and it talks a lot about these sort of things and I can say that it is one book that really lives up to its hype.

Also here are some other links to sites you will want to keep handy, DM you may like these sites too if you dont already have them. Full texts of esoteric and sacred works online for free:


Internet Archive of Western Esoteric texts:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/index.htm



Internet Sacred Text Archive:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm



Secret Teachings of All Ages:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/index.htm


Also one of the best sites on the net is the Michigan State University Dept of Esoterica:

http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/Contents.html
 
I'm sure you don't mean it quite that way, but the redundant use of "serious researcher" on this thread seems just a little condescending. Self identification as such I mean in particular.

I am a student and far from an expert and realize there are several lifetimes worth of worrk to study when it comes to occult sciences etc, but I do indeed consider myself as someone who takes these matters seriously and I spend a lot of money and use a lot of my time in this area.

But yes I see what you mean and I certainly do not mean it that way, your opinion and others is just as valid as mine and it is possible I have spent my life reading and researching all the wrong books, I can only share what I know personally.

The point of it all was that I have written and lectured on this sort of thing for years and now it is quite common for those who are skeptical of it all to simply dismiss it as "Oh you just watch too many Dan Brown movies" and I can tell you that is about as far from the truth as it gets!
 
I mean this in the nicest possible way: I’m confused. Can someone help me get from A to B?

Accepting that 505 is the number of the Kelley home, the NM area code, and is tattooed on the neck of a SKR leader; accepting that Sam’s nickname evoked Pazuzu; accepting that Farmville has a history of racism, slavery, and secret organizations like the KKK; accepting that Longwood has an unusually large number of ghost stories associated with it; accepting that Chi originally had a darker purpose…

How do we get to the Farmville murders?

Is the suggestion that Sam was possessed, say by the ghost of a former slave? A demon that smells like death? Was he provoked by a slew of spirits who are not at rest, a la Poltergeist? Did he enter some sort of spiritual vortex or magnetic field? Was there a dimensional shift or tear in the space-time continuum?

I dearly hope this does not come across as snarky or negative – this is a sincere inquiry. I’m just trying to follow the path of the occult interpretation.
 
I mean this in the nicest possible way: I’m confused. Can someone help me get from A to B?

Accepting that 505 is the number of the Kelley home, the NM area code, and is tattooed on the neck of a SKR leader; accepting that Sam’s nickname evoked Pazuzu; accepting that Farmville has a history of racism, slavery, and secret organizations like the KKK; accepting that Longwood has an unusually large number of ghost stories associated with it; accepting that Chi originally had a darker purpose…

How do we get to the Farmville murders?

Is the suggestion that Sam was possessed, say by the ghost of a former slave? A demon that smells like death? Was he provoked by a slew of spirits who are not at rest, a la Poltergeist? Did he enter some sort of spiritual vortex or magnetic field? Was there a dimensional shift or tear in the space-time continuum?

I dearly hope this does not come across as snarky or negative – this is a sincere inquiry. I’m just trying to follow the path of the occult interpretation.

Nobody is saying that is what happened, we are simply presenting any and all possible explanations much like a college professor would present many different theories but may not endorse any particular one, they are just laid out there to make you think about things from another perspective and for you to make the decision on your own in the end.

I do not know if he was possessed DM doesnt either, BUT IS IT POSSIBLE, sure, so lets look at it and see whats there, in the end maybe there is nothing there but I bet it would have been a real fun discussion and GREAT LEARNING EXPERIENCE anyway and thats exactly what this thread is all about right now UNTIL we get some more news on Sam and the murders because as of now we have exhausted those discussions in 5 previous threads.


ALL NEW PEOPLE SHOULD GO BACK TO THE OLDER THREADS and see what we discussed there, thats where the meat and potatoes about this murder case is. There is A LOT there, more than you will find anywhere else on the web.
 
I mean this in the nicest possible way: I’m confused. Can someone help me get from A to B?

Accepting that 505 is the number of the Kelley home, the NM area code, and is tattooed on the neck of a SKR leader; accepting that Sam’s nickname evoked Pazuzu; accepting that Farmville has a history of racism, slavery, and secret organizations like the KKK; accepting that Longwood has an unusually large number of ghost stories associated with it; accepting that Chi originally had a darker purpose…

How do we get to the Farmville murders?

Is the suggestion that Sam was possessed, say by the ghost of a former slave? A demon that smells like death? Was he provoked by a slew of spirits who are not at rest, a la Poltergeist? Did he enter some sort of spiritual vortex or magnetic field? Was there a dimensional shift or tear in the space-time continuum?

I dearly hope this does not come across as snarky or negative – this is a sincere inquiry. I’m just trying to follow the path of the occult interpretation.

Consider for example the fan video made of SickTanick's 2012 song. The video is made with footage from the movie Gamers and includes a shot of the protagonist's arm which has a tattoo that has several links to Sam McCroskey. What does it mean and how did this connection get there?

I personally have no f-ing clue. I generally think it is best simply to observe these connections and oddities and then move on. Maybe in the end all I am talking about here are illusory patterns in noise (see http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/322/5898/115) but if so they are at the very least intriguing illusions.

Alternatively, one might conclude these sorts of things are part of some larger pattern or system. Perhaps we can only partially observe and don't really understand this larger structure. As to it's exact workings I would have no idea, but it needn't be supernatural just mysterious and unknown.

What is your opinion?
 
Have you bothered to read the 5 other threads full of THOUSANDS of comments about the murder, who, what, when, why and how, or are you just crashing the party late and assuming things?

We have discussed this murder more THAN ANYONE ANYWHERE and thats a fact, we are now all friends and to keep eachothers company WHILE WE WAIT FOR MORE INFO and not lose contact with eachother we are simply hanging around trying to keep the thread alive and having a GENERAL DISCUSSION about things that interest us.

If you want our feelings about the case and I can assure there is more credible research about this case on the 5 previous threads than anywhere else PERIOD, then go read them and stop assuming things because you skipped POINT A and went straight to POINT B.



Paximus, I like many of your opinions more than others in this forum. They seem well thought out. However, you seem to have misunderstood my statements. They are not supose to be jokes to everyone. But it is terribly hard to take CHI walks seriously if you have ever seen one. You all make CHI out to be this serious secret society, when it is common knowledge amoungst any active students on how you can wiggle your way into CHI. I served on the judicial board of my university with several CHI members. It doesnt mean anything, except, perhaps pride?

Second, i see your stance on symbolism. However, my "ignorant generation" seems to understand it better than you may realize. You seem to talk about the word "symbolism" from a theoretical or historical viewpoint. However, this is often irrelivant. The meaning of a symbol is the understanding of it by the culture it is used in. In other words, while hostorically the meanings may be something else that in modern usage they are not. The example used earlier of the swastika is an excelent one. Hostorically, it has been many things. However, in our culture, the culture of the West, it stands for Nazis. Why? Because thats how it is commonly understood.

Next i would like to address your hints of racism. In your statement you refered to me and my fellow peers as a "bunch southern white college kids." This really gets to me, and in response, though i typically agree with you and support you, this statement makes me think of you as an ignorant elitest. First, most of my friends here (and ALL of my roomates) are from nothern virginia and the DC area. This is not considered "the south." Second, there is a very large population of people here form New York, this also is not part of "the south." Third, though we are a very small University, we are division one. This means we recruit alot of out of state people. We have a VERY large diversity of students here. Fourth, given the size of the college, Longwood has a massive exchange program with a chinese university. Calling us a bunch of "southern white kids" is about as wrong as me calling you an ignorant yankee. But hey, i guess we all make our mistakes, i wont hold this one against you.

Finally, if you wish to discuss things you are interested in, go for it. I would love to be involved with these discussion. But much of what you are saying hints at a conclusion that my school could be part of the problem. This is insane. I will, with every resource available to me, defend the integrity of my University. I do not with for you all to stop this forum, but i think it is fair for me to say: stop making assumptions about things that you seem to know VERY little about. Fine, bring up the story of CHI, but do not try to turn it into a game of pointing fingers when not a single one of you even knows what the CURRENT CHI is, nor what it stands for.

Lets remember, there are people in this forum whom this affected directly, including myself. When you manufacture some of these bogus assumptions you offend people, expecially when you refear to us as a "ignorant generation," or "a bunch of southern white kids."

One more quick thing: a friend of mine who is CHI is black. Im not sure he would like it if you called him a "southern white kid parading around with a bag over his head." You are obviously an intelegent person, PLEASE try not to act like this.

Forgive me if there are grammical mistakes, im in a hurry!
 
Nobody is saying that is what happened, we are simply presenting any and all possible explanations much like a college professor would present many different theories but may not endorse any particular one, they are just laid out there to make you think about things from another perspective and for you to make the decision on your own in the end.

I do not know if he was possessed DM doesnt either, BUT IS IT POSSIBLE, sure, so lets look at it and see whats there, in the end maybe there is nothing there but I bet it would have been a real fun discussion and GREAT LEARNING EXPERIENCE anyway and thats exactly what this thread is all about right now UNTIL we get some more news on Sam and the murders because as of now we have exhausted those discussions in 5 previous threads.


ALL NEW PEOPLE SHOULD GO BACK TO THE OLDER THREADS and see what we discussed there, thats where the meat and potatoes about this murder case is. There is A LOT there, more than you will find anywhere else on the web.



Thanks, Paximus. I’m sorry I wasn’t very clear: I wasn’t so much asking about the specific murders since no one knows exactly what happened, but about the parameters of occult possibilities. I’m not sure if the meaning here, or range of potential meanings, is ghosts, spirits, demons, possession, energy fields, and so forth, or any/some/all of the above.

For example, I can follow the 505 links (tattoo, house number, area code). But I don’t follow what it signifies, or might signify in the realm of occult possibilities. A triangulation signal? An energy beam from NM -->Shrim--> Kelley home? A demonic force that looks for 505 repititions?

What do these various signs suggest to occultists?

Btw, I don’t post much on but I’m not new to these threads.
 
Ijustmadethisup4, with all due respect, this is a misunderstanding. We are talking about the originators and the origination of these traditions which occurred 50-100 years ago in Farmville Virginia. I can assure you there were no black members of Chi at that time as I imagine could be easily verified from the organization's own records. You need to consider the meaning of these traditions in the time and place in which they were created.

The Nazi's used the swastika precisely because of its occult significance. If you fail to understand this point you, can't really know the meaning of the symbol nor can you understand the reasons for its use by the Nazis. However the fact that you don't know these things does not change the history of the use of the swastika, nor does it mean that the symbol simply stops meaning what it meant. The symbol may fail to have these meanings for YOU. But please consider the meaning of the same symbol on a Hindu temple or on a Buddhist altar cloth. Are these uses now Nazi symbols as well? I do not think so.
 
Paximus, I like many of your opinions more than others in this forum. They seem well thought out. However, you seem to have misunderstood my statements. They are not supose to be jokes to everyone. But it is terribly hard to take CHI walks seriously if you have ever seen one. You all make CHI out to be this serious secret society, when it is common knowledge amoungst any active students on how you can wiggle your way into CHI. I served on the judicial board of my university with several CHI members. It doesnt mean anything, except, perhaps pride?

Second, i see your stance on symbolism. However, my "ignorant generation" seems to understand it better than you may realize. You seem to talk about the word "symbolism" from a theoretical or historical viewpoint. However, this is often irrelivant. The meaning of a symbol is the understanding of it by the culture it is used in. In other words, while hostorically the meanings may be something else that in modern usage they are not. The example used earlier of the swastika is an excelent one. Hostorically, it has been many things. However, in our culture, the culture of the West, it stands for Nazis. Why? Because thats how it is commonly understood.


Next i would like to address your hints of racism. In your statement you refered to me and my fellow peers as a "bunch southern white college kids." This really gets to me, and in response, though i typically agree with you and support you, this statement makes me think of you as an ignorant elitest. First, most of my friends here (and ALL of my roomates) are from nothern virginia and the DC area. This is not considered "the south." Second, there is a very large population of people here form New York, this also is not part of "the south." Third, though we are a very small University, we are division one. This means we recruit alot of out of state people. We have a VERY large diversity of students here. Fourth, given the size of the college, Longwood has a massive exchange program with a chinese university. Calling us a bunch of "southern white kids" is about as wrong as me calling you an ignorant yankee. But hey, i guess we all make our mistakes, i wont hold this one against you.

Finally, if you wish to discuss things you are interested in, go for it. I would love to be involved with these discussion. But much of what you are saying hints at a conclusion that my school could be part of the problem. This is insane. I will, with every resource available to me, defend the integrity of my University. I do not with for you all to stop this forum, but i think it is fair for me to say: stop making assumptions about things that you seem to know VERY little about. Fine, bring up the story of CHI, but do not try to turn it into a game of pointing fingers when not a single one of you even knows what the CURRENT CHI is, nor what it stands for.

Lets remember, there are people in this forum whom this affected directly, including myself. When you manufacture some of these bogus assumptions you offend people, expecially when you refear to us as a "ignorant generation," or "a bunch of southern white kids."

One more quick thing: a friend of mine who is CHI is black. Im not sure he would like it if you called him a "southern white kid parading around with a bag over his head." You are obviously an intelegent person, PLEASE try not to act like this.

Forgive me if there are grammical mistakes, im in a hurry!


Hey no problem my friend, thank you for taking the time to explain where youre coming from, I may have some more comments and questions for you but I am headed home for the day and shall return later this evening.

Please join us we would love to have your local input and please forgive my grouchy response earlier we have just had several posters the last few days come out of nowhere and tell us what we should or shouldnt be talking about so I was getting a little testy...:crazy:

As to the bolded part of your statement, all I am saying is that occult symbols in particular have very specific meanings that date back thousands of years because these symbols were used to hide certain knowledge that the church of Rome was trying to destroy, so this information was encoded in a language of symbols so that the information could never be destroyed and would always be handed down to future generations even as the church and others sought to supress it. The meaning of these symbols do not change and IF THEY HAVE then I would suggest this is the result of those who wish to destroy that ancient knowledge misleading and confusing this generation in to thinking these symbols mean something other than they really do.

I welcome your opinion and input and it is obvious to me that you are not among the ignorant of your generation but dont take offense, each generation has its own ignorant many and enlightened few.

DM also brings up an important point, the Nazi bastardized the swatzi symbol but it has a much longer and more beautiful history in Hinduism and Buddhism.
 
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