VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #6

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Esoteric meanings of the hoodwink: http://www.masonicdictionary.com/hoodwink.html

The hoodwink has a psychological effect on the person that wears it, hence it is also used in methods of psychological manipulation and torture.

iraq.hood.jpg

Prisoner%20at%20Abu%20Ghraib.jpg



interrogators_hood.jpg


Sensory deprivation masks and hoods are also used in certain sexual practices for similar reasons:

164736934_tp.jpg
 
Hi, this is my first post here. Oh, and please, do hold the applause; I can already feel that I will be warmly welcome.

My generation (us crrraaazy college students), has grown up KNOWING (by knowing i actually mean being taught) that the bad guys were the Islamic extremists. Little did I, and my poorly educated classmates at Longwood University, know that true evil was hiding right under our noses! CHI, the source of all evil, the wrong doers, the domestic terrorists! If only we had known that THEY were the problem, with their "high" gpa's and numerous "extra curricular" activities. We all know now what they were actually doing behind closed doors....

Well, let’s see, as a Longwood student (a junior, with enough credits to graduate) I suppose it SHOULD be up to me to tell you people what that is. Here it is: NOTHING.

That was exciting, and almost true. The only thing chi does actually do is walk around every once and a while with a BAG (not pointy hood) over their head and sox, yes sox, on their hands. It’s funny as hell for those of you who are trying to picture it in your heads. Calling CHI a cult with a hidden meaning is like calling the gay pride parade in New York a conspiring cult against Jews. For those of you who didn’t get that analogy, the similarities are drawn between the two in that neither makes ANY sense.

Why did four people die? Here is what happened: Dr. Kelly and her husband had problems. It reflected onto their child, who then had problems. She was friends with other crazy people, one of which was a nutcase sent to use by the California’s (that’s Sam). The California kid killed all four people: two of which were good people, and should have your respect, not your crazy assumptions about the town they are from. One of those people who died was an innocent child. She didn’t even have a chance to mature. The other was just a friend coming to visit.

Now, i live here, i go to school here, and i see the people who were hurt by this. Dr. Kelly had problems in her family, but she was a good person who worked for a good university that cared about her. The ONLY bad person here was the one who came from somewhere else. Perhaps we should be talking about where that poor excuses of a life form came from and not highlighting ghost stories told by one of our most famous professors (whom my family is good friends with).

Oh, and for those of you who believe those ghost stories, don’t. I lived in one of the "haunted" dorms, everyone knows its a joke, except for you a select few on these forums.

As for the symbolism stuff, get real. This isn’t the movie Angels and Demons (which is a great movie and book, i encourage you to read/watch it). Not everything has a hidden meaning or secret code, just ask the comic act called CHI.


Sincerely, Longwood Univserity Student Body (well, at least one of us).
 
By the way, whats up with the pictures of the hooded terrorists and the crazy sex toy hood thing? And in what remote way do you connect them to the title of the forum. And if it doesnt connect to this particular thread, why on earth are we putting it on this one?
 
By the way, whats up with the pictures of the hooded terrorists and the crazy sex toy hood thing? And in what remote way do you connect them to the title of the forum. And if it doesnt connect to this particular thread, why on earth are we putting it on this one?

These are a few examples, and there really aren't very many, of other cases where people employ a hood or mask which covers the eyes. Another is when trying to hide the location someone is being taken to, for example during a kidnapping.

Otherwise the hood with eyes covered is pretty much always associated with an execution. You can look this up youself.

As for why it is all relevant to the case of these tragic murders, well the weird superstitions about Chi droppings etc. at Longwood and the ghost stories are just one of the many little odd occult related things or surprising coincidences that appear around this case. There are others like the fact that victims' address was 505 which is also the New Mexico area code and is therefore tattooed on the neck of one of the horrorcore rappers central to the story, or the fact that the murderer's online handle is a reference to a demon that smelled like death as he eventually did.

I didn't make any of the Longwood ghost stories up, I didn't design the Chi costumes, and I didn't create any of the masonic or other uses of hoods and hoodwinks described above. I am just reporting them here.

Finally, you say the hoods and costumes that Chi uses are a joke. I agree that's exactly how these traditions started. The problem is that the joke isn't funny anymore.

PS Very informative analogy BTW. Really.
 
If you look deep enough into anything you will find strange correlations. However, as a major of economics i am very good at statistical analysis, specifically that employed by a program called stata. While correlation may be present, they are not nessecarily significant. This logic can be applied to anything. For example, the number on the house being 505 may seem to correlate to Sam. However, it could have been any assortment of variation that could have connected to him. The number was not relevant in any other way and should not be considered significant (statistically speaking). If every one of his friends had the tatoo of that numbers, then we would have a case. Secondly, Sams affiliation with longwood was only through the mother of his girlfriend, who was not a currently active professor. The assumtion that he would in any way even have knowledge of CHI is far fetched.

The arguements presented here are all interesting, there is no doubt about that. However, viewed form a logical persepective, none of this holds any viable significance in WHY he committed these murders. I cannot stress the importance of the meaning of the word assumption enough here. It is unsound to make such accusations based off of far fetch assumptions, which in turn were based off of the research of bloggers that arent even completely accurate.
 
If you look deep enough into anything you will find strange correlations. However, as a major of economics i am very good at statistical analysis, specifically that employed by a program called stata. While correlation may be present, they are not nessecarily significant. This logic can be applied to anything. For example, the number on the house being 505 may seem to correlate to Sam. However, it could have been any assortment of variation that could have connected to him. The number was not relevant in any other way and should not be considered significant (statistically speaking). If every one of his friends had the tatoo of that numbers, then we would have a case. Secondly, Sams affiliation with longwood was only through the mother of his girlfriend, who was not a currently active professor. The assumtion that he would in any way even have knowledge of CHI is far fetched.

The arguements presented here are all interesting, there is no doubt about that. However, viewed form a logical persepective, none of this holds any viable significance in WHY he committed these murders. I cannot stress the importance of the meaning of the word assumption enough here. It is unsound to make such accusations based off of far fetch assumptions, which in turn were based off of the research of bloggers that arent even completely accurate.

What accusations are you talking about? Who made them?

Are you talking about my statements about the history of racism in Farmville?

PS I am a professional applied mathematician. Statistics do not apply to single non-reproducible events like someone getting a tattoo. As you point out there is no relevant population from which to sample.
 
"What pisses me off is I have been studying this stuff all my life and Dan Brown comes along and turns it in to a big joke with all his silly books and movies which I believe has the purpose of turning the truth which they cannot hide anymore in to entertainment so that can say "oh thats hollywood you cant take entertainment like that seriously." quote from paximus

"As for the symbolism stuff, get real. This isn’t the movie Angels and Demons (which is a great movie and book, i encourage you to read/watch it). Not everything has a hidden meaning or secret code, just ask the comic act called CHI."quote from ijustmadethisup4

He just proved your point ,pax....
 
Here's just a first point on this Blou. It is false that words are arbitrary and have no history. I don't know where you get this idea from. Words are tools and as such are artifacts constructed by human beings. They are similar in this way to pottery or sculpture or ...

And some words have more charged histories than others.

You give the example of cat, well cat has a quite interesting history in fact:

O.E. (c.700), from W.Gmc. (c.400-450), from P.Gmc. *kattuz, from L.L. cattus. The near-universal European word now, it appeared in Europe as L. catta (Martial, c.75 C.E.), Byzantine Gk. katta (c.350) and was in general use on the continent by c. 700, replacing L. feles. Probably ult. Afro-Asiatic (cf. Nubian kadis, Berber kadiska, both meaning "cat"). Arabic qitt "tomcat" may be from the same source. Cats were domestic in Egypt from c.2000 B.C.E., but not a familiar household animal to classical Greeks and Romans. The nine lives have been proverbial since at least 1560s. Extended to lions, tigers, etc. c.1600. As a term of contempt for a woman, from early 13c. Slang sense of "prostitute" is from at least c.1400. Slang sense of "fellow, guy," is from 1920, originally in U.S. Black Eng.; narrower sense of "jazz enthusiast" is recorded from 1931. Catnap is from 1823; catfish is from c.1620. Cat's-cradle is from 1768. Cat-o'-nine-tails (1690s), probably so called in reference to its "claws," was legal instrument of punishment in British Navy until 1881. Cat's paw (1769, but cat's foot in the same sense, 1597) refers to old folk tale in which the monkey tricks the cat into pawing chestnuts from a fire; the monkey gets the nuts, the cat gets a burnt paw. To rain cats and dogs (c.1652) is probably an extension of cats and dogs as proverbial for "strife, enmity" (1570s). Cat-witted "small-minded, obstinate, and spiteful" (1670s) deserved to survive. For Cat's meow, cat's pajamas, see bee's knees.


From http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=CAT

So it is with ALL words. This notion that words are without context and history is simply wrong.

Now as far as the symbols we are talking about here, occult symbols, as Pax mentions these are symbols that were specifically designed to carry esoteric meanings despite oppression of the beliefs behind them. These esoteric meanings have existed relatively intact for thousands of years.

Consider for example the use of Nazi symbols by Marilyn Manson.

And the ubiquitous Swastika? What does it mean?

swastikas.bmp


See also: http://www.azcentral.com/ent/celeb/articles/2009/06/06/20090606marilyn-manson-customises-hair.html

It may seem like a personal attack, I don't mean it that way at all, but it's hard to formulate a response to such an undisciplined and shall we say "non-linear" approach to rebuttal, if it is that, of the points I raised.

I haven't and wouldn't suggest that words don't have history, so we are clearly in agreement there. Context is all in the argument that I made, again we agree. It is 100 percent certain in the case of signs, because we have in English by convention assigned such a definition to the word, that signs are things which represent other things when the connection between the two is arbitrary. That's true whether verbal signs, written signs, or what have you. I'm not sure then what your argument is.

We have another common mammal companion animal that we English speakers refer to as dogs or in the singular a dog. The French for some reason like to use the word chien when there is one, chiens when there are two or more. Funny French, they say them both the same though. There is exactly no relationship between those animals and the sounds that English or French speakers use in conversation or the marks we make when writing.

Regarding the so called "occult" symbols it's again difficult to respond when you seem both to be making and demolishing your argument at the same time.

So what if there are symbols that have history and continue to have the same meaning to a select group of people? Latin, Aramaic, and Sumerian are sets of signs with very specific meanings and highly sophisticated rules for their use(the swastika is a sign rather than a symbol as well). Those languages all have sets of specific marks which when placed in very specific orders create written signs which correlate to specific verbal signs. Those languages are pretty much dead languages, but their verbal and written signs continue to have meaning to a select group of people who are conversant with them. We as contemporary English speakers have roughly the same repertoire of phonetic elements that were available to daily speakers of any of those three languages. We even use the same letters the Romans used with the addition of J, U, and W.

There are limited numbers of comfortable combinations of those phonetic elements, and we have words that are directly derived from Latin, so we often make combinations that are very similar to Latin words, but there is no way that I can accidentally start to speak in Latin or write it. I can't even intentionally do it well without considerable effort. Latin is a system and unless I adhere to a significant portion of the rules of the system, most obviously and relevantly what the specific meanings of the signs are, it isn't Latin. It's hard enough to do that consistently in English and there's no way it will happen without intending it to happen.

Now, I can learn Latin from someone who knows the language. In order for that to be possible, I must understand that within the conventions of Latin certain symbols carry certain meanings. It is easy to demonstrate that the meanings of those symbols would be dependent upon an agreement that we would be speaking Latin when we used them. I know nothing of Latin actually, but in French for instance coin means corner while in English is means a small usually metal thing that represents a unit of stored production. Bras are arms in French, but things that support breasts in English. Those signs themselves, whether written or spoken have no inherent meaning and only have one where one exists within a particular language's structure.

Facts of History and years of conditioning have made Marilyn Manson's use of Nazi symbolism mean something completely different than those symbols meant to the Nazis. Most obviously, MM uses the symbols to refer to Nazis, when I don't think the Nazis were ironic enough to be referring to themselves.

It's a nice array of images you've got there, but it's odd that you would suggest they are in any way related when they are visibly very different things and have as the labels testify, very unrelated origins. What does "it" mean? Which it would that be? If you are referring to the swastika specifically, or really any of them, then you would have to indicate -to whom?- for that question to even have a meaning.

I just hate linking to wikipedia, but the damn thing is so handy. These refer to verbal signs, but the principles are applicable to any sign or symbol I would argue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_cognate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_friend
 
Point two: Some of the symbols here have clear and unambiguous meanings.

For example the use of a hood that covers the eyes. I challenge you to display any use of such a mask or hood other than for a person about to be executed typically at a gallows or by firing squad.

uhhhm... how about

Prisoner%20at%20Abu%20Ghraib.jpg


interrogators_hood.jpg


164736934_tp.jpg
 
mercilessly chopped by me: (Note, I decided to not say I went &#$ on it.)

Consider for example the use of Nazi symbols by Marilyn Manson.

And the ubiquitous Swastika? What does it mean?

....
See also: http://www.azcentral.com/ent/celeb/articles/2009/06/06/20090606marilyn-manson-customises-hair.html

If MM had shaved a 505 into his young friend's pubic hair I'd be sending you flowers right about now. I do wonder if he used the protractor to set it at a 33 degree angle.
 
"Don't Judge A Man Until You've Walked Two Moons In His Moccasins " ~From the Book Walk Two Moons
My youngest daughter goes every summer with her bf and his parents the Outer Banks, NC I have no problem with this, would you?
BTW, his mother, is a Dr. at LU. Wanna guess what department? His dad is a Dr there too, he is pt!

No... Barring further details that may dissuade me, I would have no problem with the situation you describe. I am losing track of the point, however. Are you saying that letting a man your daughter met on the internet in the context of horrorcore come to your home to stay is a comparable situation? I am saying I can make a distinction.

Isn't it the case that you are saying you would also have invited Sam to stay in your house with your underage daughter, and I am saying that I would not have? I don't think we have anything to argue about then. We differ on what would be safe practice, is all.
 
mercilessly chopped by me: (Note, I decided to not say I went &#$ on it.)



If MM had shaved a 505 into his young friend's pubic hair I'd be sending you flowers right about now. I do wonder if he used the protractor to set it at a 33 degree angle.[/QUOTE:dance:
 
No... Barring further details that may dissuade me, I would have no problem with the situation you describe. I am losing track of the point, however. Are you saying that letting a man your daughter met on the internet in the context of horrorcore come to your home to stay is a comparable situation? I am saying I can make a distinction.


I think peace gurl was saying her daughters would not listen to horrorcore so she would'nt be in that situation.
You're saying you would let your kids listen to horrorcore but not let a horrorcore kid stay at your house
I'm saying I wouldn't let anyone my kid met online stay at my house,I don't care if it's Prince William ....
I guess the point is every parent is different....
....but I think it's interesting that there's not even one of us here that would have done what Professor Kelly did,I really wished we'd know more about that whole family dynamic....why did Emma not get along with her?....it's obviously not true that she was strict or didn't let her go anywhere?...or was this some sort of "experiment" for Professor Kellly?...did she invite sam because it helped her research?
...it does seem like Emma was spoiled but to dislike her mom to a point where she referred to her as "professor" instead of "mom"?
Why did Debra and Mark seperate?
How involved was Debra with her work?
 
I'm not sure if either of us is correct about what Peace_gurl is saying....

I can say though, about my own position, that Prince William met online would not be camping out at my house, either. You and I do not differ in that respect.
 
It may seem like a personal attack, I don't mean it that way at all, but it's hard to formulate a response to such an undisciplined and shall we say "non-linear" approach to rebuttal, if it is that, of the points I raised.

I haven't and wouldn't suggest that words don't have history, so we are clearly in agreement there. Context is all in the argument that I made, again we agree. It is 100 percent certain in the case of signs, because we have in English by convention assigned such a definition to the word, that signs are things which represent other things when the connection between the two is arbitrary. That's true whether verbal signs, written signs, or what have you. I'm not sure then what your argument is.

We have another common mammal companion animal that we English speakers refer to as dogs or in the singular a dog. The French for some reason like to use the word chien when there is one, chiens when there are two or more. Funny French, they say them both the same though. There is exactly no relationship between those animals and the sounds that English or French speakers use in conversation or the marks we make when writing.

Regarding the so called "occult" symbols it's again difficult to respond when you seem both to be making and demolishing your argument at the same time.

So what if there are symbols that have history and continue to have the same meaning to a select group of people? Latin, Aramaic, and Sumerian are sets of signs with very specific meanings and highly sophisticated rules for their use(the swastika is a sign rather than a symbol as well). Those languages all have sets of specific marks which when placed in very specific orders create written signs which correlate to specific verbal signs. Those languages are pretty much dead languages, but their verbal and written signs continue to have meaning to a select group of people who are conversant with them. We as contemporary English speakers have roughly the same repertoire of phonetic elements that were available to daily speakers of any of those three languages. We even use the same letters the Romans used with the addition of J, U, and W.

There are limited numbers of comfortable combinations of those phonetic elements, and we have words that are directly derived from Latin, so we often make combinations that are very similar to Latin words, but there is no way that I can accidentally start to speak in Latin or write it. I can't even intentionally do it well without considerable effort. Latin is a system and unless I adhere to a significant portion of the rules of the system, most obviously and relevantly what the specific meanings of the signs are, it isn't Latin. It's hard enough to do that consistently in English and there's no way it will happen without intending it to happen.

Now, I can learn Latin from someone who knows the language. In order for that to be possible, I must understand that within the conventions of Latin certain symbols carry certain meanings. It is easy to demonstrate that the meanings of those symbols would be dependent upon an agreement that we would be speaking Latin when we used them. I know nothing of Latin actually, but in French for instance coin means corner while in English is means a small usually metal thing that represents a unit of stored production. Bras are arms in French, but things that support breasts in English. Those signs themselves, whether written or spoken have no inherent meaning and only have one where one exists within a particular language's structure.

Facts of History and years of conditioning have made Marilyn Manson's use of Nazi symbolism mean something completely different than those symbols meant to the Nazis. Most obviously, MM uses the symbols to refer to Nazis, when I don't think the Nazis were ironic enough to be referring to themselves.

It's a nice array of images you've got there, but it's odd that you would suggest they are in any way related when they are visibly very different things and have as the labels testify, very unrelated origins. What does "it" mean? Which it would that be? If you are referring to the swastika specifically, or really any of them, then you would have to indicate -to whom?- for that question to even have a meaning.

I just hate linking to wikipedia, but the damn thing is so handy. These refer to verbal signs, but the principles are applicable to any sign or symbol I would argue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_cognate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_friend

Blou, I am sorry if my "non-linear" style is disruptive. I numbered the responses to aid you. I do not have time to write a structured essay right now. However I am glad to see that you now admit that words do have histories, when previously you specifically stated precisely the opposite about the word "cat".

I am not saying that the letters used in various languages are identical, or that similar sounding words in different languages are identical or even have related meanings, although obviously some of these words do share roots in Latin or other languages. Even from the occult perspective, Greek, Hebrew, and Sumerian all have similar letter forms (some letters look and sound similar) but they still have different numerations in gematria.

However words have their forms for reasons just like other human artifacts. You mentioned stop signs, and there is a technical reason that our stop signs (and those of a number of other countries) have the familiar eight sided shape. The French word "chien" and the plural "chiens" have their specific forms and rules of pronunciation for both historical and technical reasons much like the stop sign.

The Nazi's chose to use the Swastika PRECISELY BECAUSE of its occult meaning and significance in both Hinduism and Buddhism. Marilyn Manson uses Nazi symbols and the Swastika in particular because of BOTH the history of the use of these signs and symbols by the Nazis AND the hidden or occult meanings of same. The true or hidden meaning of the swastika is unchanged, but because of the recent use by the Nazis it has become highly charged. Manson both wants to convey the occult message and create controversy which is a form of energy, so he chooses to use these charged images like the Nazi drummer uniforms, swastikas, etc. as well a his notorious name and appearance.

As far as "to whom" Manson wishes to convey these messages, I think that is fairly obviously his audience and the media.

Similarly, the Chi symbols are intended to convey a message to the students of the university. Originally Chi was a group that enforced a moral code at the school, outing violators and even helping to expel them from the school. This predates the renaming of the school and dates back to the time when the school was an all female seminary and later a school to educate female teachers.

The current Chi traditions, signs and symbols were developed and constructed many years ago, during a period of time when "separate but equal" was the law in Farmville and when people thought " jokes" were funny. Do you deny this?

I posted a link to the 1909 Farmville Herald which outlined hazing rituals and pranks developed at the time when Chi originated. Later the university intervened and reformed the Chi society (apparently because of an event where they went too far) but the old traditions continue in a diluted form.

The students today clearly don't know their own history, forgetting perhaps that parts of their main building are built on the unmarked graves of slaves, and also that Chi's traditions started out as a racist joke rooted in Masonic traditions. Remember the group was originally represented by a red skull and bones emblem.

Anyone that researches the history and origins of these traditions will find what I found. The people in Farmville and at Longwood today just don't want to look.

ETA: Blou, I just want to state that I don't take any of this as a personal attack. You are clearly attacking my argument and not me, and I have a great deal of respect for your argument. I don't happen to agree with your points, but I respect the person presenting them.
 
I'm not sure if either of us is correct about what Peace_gurl is saying....

I can say though, about my own position, that Prince William met online would not be camping out at my house, either. You and I do not differ in that respect.

I think she is saying that it is a small town and that people in Farmville trust and help other people despite evidence that maybe they shouldn't.

At least if they are white.
 
I think peace gurl was saying her daughters would not listen to horrorcore so she would'nt be in that situation.
You're saying you would let your kids listen to horrorcore but not let a horrorcore kid stay at your house
I'm saying I wouldn't let anyone my kid met online stay at my house,I don't care if it's Prince William ....
I guess the point is every parent is different....
....but I think it's interesting that there's not even one of us here that would have done what Professor Kelly did,I really wished we'd know more about that whole family dynamic....why did Emma not get along with her?....it's obviously not true that she was strict or didn't let her go anywhere?...or was this some sort of "experiment" for Professor Kellly?...did she invite sam because it helped her research?
...it does seem like Emma was spoiled but to dislike her mom to a point where she referred to her as "professor" instead of "mom"?
Why did Debra and Mark seperate?
How involved was Debra with her work?


I also took it to mean that her daughter would not listen to horrorcore.

Whatever the reason, I think most of us are in agreement that they would not let a strange man stay in their home.
 
I also took it to mean that her daughter would not listen to horrorcore.

Whatever the reason, I think most of us are in agreement that they would not let a strange man stay in their home.

I think its more than "most". I am a bit unclear on peace_girl's position here, but I haven't heard anyone else state they would let a strange man visit their teenage daughter in their home. I think we are universally in agreement that this would not happen in our homes.

I can't imagine Dr. Kelly really felt differently, although maybe that is possible. It seems more likely that Emma lied to her and that she didn't have adequate knowledge of what was going on with Emma's MySpace etc. Kids these days know how to circumvent parental monitoring software. In order to monitor them 100% you either need to control physical access to the computer or use network sniffing software to monitor their communications. The conventional monitoring and blocking software is easily circumvented by the use of proxies for example.
 
I think its more than "most". I am a bit unclear on peace_girl's position here, but I haven't heard anyone else state they would let a strange man visit their teenage daughter in their home. I think we are universally in agreement that this would not happen in our homes.

I can't imagine Dr. Kelly really felt differently, although maybe that is possible. It seems more likely that Emma lied to her and that she didn't have adequate knowledge of what was going on with Emma's MySpace etc. Kids these days know how to circumvent parental monitoring software. In order to monitor them 100% you either need to control physical access to the computer or use network sniffing software to monitor their communications. The conventional monitoring and blocking software is easily circumvented by the use of proxies for example.

By "most" I meant everyone but the one with the unclear opinion.

What if Emma made up a sob story about how Sam needed a place to stay for some reason? She could have made up a story about Sam's family situation and that he needed to get away from a dangerous place. If she explained that Sam had no where to go to in his area maybe she could have talked her mother into allowing him to come there. Perhaps Dr. Kelly was trying to help him.
 
By "most" I meant everyone but the one with the unclear opinion.

What if Emma made up a sob story about how Sam needed a place to stay for some reason? She could have made up a story about Sam's family situation and that he needed to get away from a dangerous place. If she explained that Sam had no where to go to in his area maybe she could have talked her mother into allowing him to come there. Perhaps Dr. Kelly was trying to help him.

Ah ok.

There are many possibilities of how Emma could have manipulated her mother to let Sam stay in the house. Like you I imagine it would have probably involved an appeal to her better nature.
 
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