VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #6

[claudicici]

Vril is one of my favorite topics, the person who founded Yale's Skull and Bones society of which most of the Bush family are members of, went to Germany to study Vril so that he could model the S and B after it when he returned. It has been suggested that Hitler was a Vril but there is only circumstantial evidence to show this.

...this stuff is insane,so many things are running through my head...i knew i never cared much for any of that family,but omg....

 

[dangrsmind]

One thing that ravers, emo kids, and even juggalettes seem to have in common is "scene hair".

OMFG

 

[blouAngel]

Apparently the Longwood secret society Chi had an evil or mischievous offshoot at one point called "Red Chi" that used the red Skull and Bones as their symbol.

Chi as exemplified in the form of the Chi-Rho is a symbol of the cross. Those "scary" Chi-burings take on a new meaning in this light.

I'm sure a lot of nice people go to Longwood. I also think there are many good reasons for choosing to go to a small school in a small town, but really, Longwood isn't where the powerful congregate or send their kids even. If there is a THEY who want to shake us off of their tail, either they've been brilliant in hiding away for so long in Farmville, or this is exactly what THEY would want, people being misdirected as usual.

Just for kicks, take a look at these links. Read as much as you would like, but do look at the list of notable alumni from each.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longwood_University
Notable alumni: A couple of lame pop musicians, a few sports figures and a noted activist in the Farmville area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_and_Lee_University
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Virginia
Notable alumni: A very long list of people with HUGE influence on American society from politics, to banking, to major media.

Washington and Lee has links to both of those men(W and L), who have various other interesting ties between them. Lee (Confederate general you will recall) is practically regarded as a god and even his freaking horse has a shrine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_(horse) Want to find some weird secret society stuff, those schools are where it is in Virginia. VMI, which is right next to W&L, so close in fact that you might not know you have walked from one to the other, bans secret societies, which probably do exist as actual secret societies rather than play groups like Longwood has.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent_University
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_University
The alumni info isn't so good for those schools, but they are all over politics, including many who served the last Bush administration.

No telling what happens in those places, but I'd personally be much more frightened of a secret society at either one of them than another place in the country. From the wikipedia article "According to Regent, the school seeks students who are "dedicated to becoming Christian leaders who will change the world for Christ" and want "to receive a legal education integrated with Christian principles."" Both are connected to media empires and Liberty has connections to Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

Bob McDonnell, who I'm sad to say is my governor elect has a master's degree from Regent. His master's thesis was very controversial during the recent election, but he won anyway. One last wikipedia link. Read about his thesis here if interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_McDonnell

 

[dangrsmind]

Marilyn manson "Antichrist Superstar"
you built me up with your wishing hell
I didn't have to sell you
you threw your money in the pissing well
you do just what they tell you
REPENT, that's what I'm talking about
I shed the skin to feed the fake
REPENT, that's what I'm talking about
whose mistake am I anyway?
Cut the head off
Grows back hard
I am the hydra
now you'll see your star
prick your finger it is done
the moon has now eclipsed the sun
the angel has spread its wings
the time has come for bitter things (chorus)
the time has come it is quite clear
our antichrist
is almost here...
it is done

I previously linked to this, but if you haven't checked it out you might find this amazing site on Marilyn Manson's occult and Nazi symbolism interesting:

http://www.nachtkabarett.com

 

[ericclimbs]

I'm sure a lot of nice people go to Longwood. I also think there are many good reasons for choosing to go to a small school in a small town, but really, Longwood isn't where the powerful congregate or send their kids even. If there is a THEY who want to shake us off of their tail, either they've been brilliant in hiding away for so long in Farmville, or this is exactly what THEY would want, people being misdirected as usual.

Just for kicks, take a look at these links. Read as much as you would like, but do look at the list of notable alumni from each.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longwood_University
Notable alumni: A couple of lame pop musicians, a few sports figures and a noted activist in the Farmville area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_and_Lee_University
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Virginia
Notable alumni: A very long list of people with HUGE influence on American society from politics, to banking, to major media.

Washington and Lee has links to both of those men(W and L), who have various other interesting ties between them. Lee (Confederate general you will recall) is practically regarded as a god and even his freaking horse has a shrine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_(horse) Want to find some weird secret society stuff, those schools are where it is in Virginia. VMI, which is right next to W&L, so close in fact that you might not know you have walked from one to the other, bans secret societies, which probably do exist as actual secret societies rather than play groups like Longwood has.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent_University
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_University
The alumni info isn't so good for those schools, but they are all over politics, including many who served the last Bush administration.

No telling what happens in those places, but I'd personally be much more frightened of a secret society at either one of them than another place in the country. From the wikipedia article "According to Regent, the school seeks students who are "dedicated to becoming Christian leaders who will change the world for Christ" and want "to receive a legal education integrated with Christian principles."" Both are connected to media empires and Liberty has connections to Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

Bob McDonnell, who I'm sad to say is my governor elect has a master's degree from Regent. His master's thesis was very controversial during the recent election, but he won anyway. One last wikipedia link. Read about his thesis here if interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_McDonnell

This info is extremely dated, as I entered college in the Fall of 1987, but, as I recall from personal experience the most prominent schools, in Virginia anyway, were UVA, Virginia Tech, and James Madison. When I applied to four different universities Longwood wasn't even on the radar though that certainly may have changed since then. VMI is a military school which wasn't under my consideration. I ended up attending James Madison and if there were ever any secret societies there I never found about them.

The first few years I was too busy skipping class and banging my head to Mercyful Fate and screaming "Natas Voli," (in a low growling voice, of course) with my friends in hope to disturb anyone within earshot. We were doing the young, immature, shock value thing with stuff like this and playing the *advertiser censored* Surfers, at earsplitting levels, to creep out the maid staff. The last thing we ever were, even remotely, were Satanists -- it was all typical rebelliousness. I think, like the backgrounds of some of us here, this goes back to how, hopefully, most of these Horrorcore kids will grow out of the whole "image" thing even if they continue to like the music as they mature into adulthood. Indeed much like most of the musicians themselves.

Not that I doubt some folks in the scene may take this stuff very seriously. I just believe it is probably a minority of them.

 

[dangrsmind]

I'm sure a lot of nice people go to Longwood. I also think there are many good reasons for choosing to go to a small school in a small town, but really, Longwood isn't where the powerful congregate or send their kids even. If there is a THEY who want to shake us off of their tail, either they've been brilliant in hiding away for so long in Farmville, or this is exactly what THEY would want, people being misdirected as usual.

Just for kicks, take a look at these links. Read as much as you would like, but do look at the list of notable alumni from each.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longwood_University
Notable alumni: A couple of lame pop musicians, a few sports figures and a noted activist in the Farmville area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_and_Lee_University
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Virginia
Notable alumni: A very long list of people with HUGE influence on American society from politics, to banking, to major media.

Washington and Lee has links to both of those men(W and L), who have various other interesting ties between them. Lee (Confederate general you will recall) is practically regarded as a god and even his freaking horse has a shrine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_(horse) Want to find some weird secret society stuff, those schools are where it is in Virginia. VMI, which is right next to W&L, so close in fact that you might not know you have walked from one to the other, bans secret societies, which probably do exist as actual secret societies rather than play groups like Longwood has.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent_University
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_University
The alumni info isn't so good for those schools, but they are all over politics, including many who served the last Bush administration.

No telling what happens in those places, but I'd personally be much more frightened of a secret society at either one of them than another place in the country. From the wikipedia article "According to Regent, the school seeks students who are "dedicated to becoming Christian leaders who will change the world for Christ" and want "to receive a legal education integrated with Christian principles."" Both are connected to media empires and Liberty has connections to Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

Bob McDonnell, who I'm sad to say is my governor elect has a master's degree from Regent. His master's thesis was very controversial during the recent election, but he won anyway. One last wikipedia link. Read about his thesis here if interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_McDonnell

I'm not trying to link Longwood's secret societies to the famous Yale Skull and Bones or other such organizations that may or may not control the world.

I'm just saying this organization is evoking this same imagery. The Skull and Bones symbol was also used by the Nazis. Why?

What I am saying is simply this. There are a lot of different people around this crime employing occult references, Masonic references, and death imagery, and interestingly they aren't all horrorcore artists.

The Chi robes are blue and white, the same colors as worn by the KKK
The letter Chi represents the cross and the annual Chi burning is therefore a symbolic "cross burning"
The "Chi walk" is a simulated death ritual with the walkers being hooded with eyes covered as if being led to the gallows
The Chi symbol is a sunrise over Solomon's temple a Masonic reference
Chi used to use secret tunnels to travel unseen around the campus

 

[Kano]

I didnt know we knew when the pic from raz's site was made? Interesting if it was a month before..

 

[dangrsmind]

I didnt know we knew when the pic from raz's site was made? Interesting if it was a month before..

You can tell the date of creation by examining the EXIF data (metadata) which is contained in the image file. There are downloadable products that will do this as well as a few online sites. In some cases this information can also be used to confirm the machine the file originated on, what tools were used to generate the image, etc.

e.g. http://regex.info/exif.cgi?url=http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/382/razbanner2.jpg

Create Date: 2009:08:16 17:56:58-07:00

 

[ericclimbs]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent_University
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_University
The alumni info isn't so good for those schools, but they are all over politics, including many who served the last Bush administration.

Also, piggybacking on Blou, if you didn't check out the links, Liberty and Regent are Fundamentalist Christian Schools. The former created by Jerry Falwell and, the latter, by Pat Robertson. Regent was originally named The Christian Broadcasting Network University (is it just me or is that. . .scary??).

 

[blouAngel]

I'm not trying to link Longwood's secret societies to the famous Yale Skull and Bones or other such organizations that may or may not control the world.

I'm just saying this organization is evoking this same imagery. The Skull and Bones symbol was also used by the Nazis. Why?

What I am saying is simply this. There are a lot of different people around this crime employing occult references, Masonic references, and death imagery, and interestingly they aren't all horrorcore artists.

The Chi robes are blue and white, the same colors as worn by the KKK
The letter Chi represents the cross and the annual Chi burning is therefore a symbolic "cross burning"
The "Chi walk" is a simulated death ritual with the walkers being hooded with eyes covered as if being led to the gallows
The Chi symbol is a sunrise over Solomon's temple a Masonic reference
Chi used to use secret tunnels to travel unseen around the campus

I'm afraid of opening up a huge ("whole n'uther" as my least favorite neologism would have it) diversion by throwing semiotics into the discussion, but symbols are generally regarded as having no intrinsic meaning. They represent whatever meaning there is/was a need to symbolize in any given context. Use of pre-existing signs does not necessarily mean that a pre-existing meaning remained with it any more than similarity of form means a similarity of meaning. (two, to, too)

From Daniel Chandler's "Semiotics for Beginners"
Saussure argued that signs only make sense as part of a formal, generalized and abstract system. His conception of meaning was purely structural and relational rather than referential: primacy is given to relationships rather than to things (the meaning of signs was seen as lying in their systematic relation to each other rather than deriving from any inherent features of signifiers or any reference to material things). Saussure did not define signs in terms of some 'essential' or intrinsic nature. For Saussure, signs refer primarily to each other. Within the language system, 'everything depends on relations' (Saussure 1983, 121; Saussure 1974, 122). No sign makes sense on its own but only in relation to other signs. Both signifier and signified are purely relational entities (Saussure 1983, 118; Saussure 1974, 120). This notion can be hard to understand since we may feel that an individual word such as 'tree' does have some meaning for us, but its meaning depends on its context in relation to the other words with which it is used.
http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Documents/S4B/sem02.html

 

[dangrsmind]

I'm afraid of opening up a huge ("whole n'uther" as my least favorite neologism would have it) diversion by throwing semiotics into the discussion, but symbols are generally regarded as having no intrinsic meaning. They represent whatever meaning there is/was a need to symbolize in any given context. Use of pre-existing signs does not necessarily mean that a pre-existing meaning remained with it any more than similarity of form means a similarity of meaning. (two, to, too)

From Daniel Chandler's "Semiotics for Beginners"
Saussure argued that signs only make sense as part of a formal, generalized and abstract system. His conception of meaning was purely structural and relational rather than referential: primacy is given to relationships rather than to things (the meaning of signs was seen as lying in their systematic relation to each other rather than deriving from any inherent features of signifiers or any reference to material things). Saussure did not define signs in terms of some 'essential' or intrinsic nature. For Saussure, signs refer primarily to each other. Within the language system, 'everything depends on relations' (Saussure 1983, 121; Saussure 1974, 122). No sign makes sense on its own but only in relation to other signs. Both signifier and signified are purely relational entities (Saussure 1983, 118; Saussure 1974, 120). This notion can be hard to understand since we may feel that an individual word such as 'tree' does have some meaning for us, but its meaning depends on its context in relation to the other words with which it is used.
http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Documents/S4B/sem02.html

I don't contest the idea that few if any of the modern participants in these rituals understand the original intention and meaning of the various symbols employed.

 

[tapu]

I don't contest the idea that few if any of the modern participants in these rituals understand the original intention and meaning of the various symbols employed.

So... Sicktanick just copied some pretty hieroglyphics?

(if this is just stupid, feel free to tell me. it's early, even in maine....)

 

[Sally Trueheart]

Been reading along, with little time to spare..but can so can some one 'splain to me how the Raver's, the Emo's, amd the Juggalettes/Jugalloes differ?-- Paximus

Raver-- Alcohol shunned for the most part. Ecstatic dancing for hours on end provided by djs. Music is continuous, very positive and extremely loud. Energy drinks, Ecstacy drug of choice. Major danger: dancing too much, sending electrolytes out of whack by too much dancing/ water, and of course hearing damage. Frequent Ecstacy use may lead to depression eventually. Typical raver wears clothing all colors of the rainbow, wide legged pants, giant platform shoes, and a pacifier on a necklace. More commonly people wear silly costume- like accessories such as a hat with neon feather trim. Sometimes candy necklaces around the neck. This may be connected to the strichhanine in the drugs that causes them to grind their teeth. Raves are pretty expensive, complicated to find, and requiring a long time commitment (dance for 8 plus hours, then sleep the day away).

Emos-- A term that has a tinge of derision-- "he's/ she's so emo." May be a short term identity. Weepy, sad, tragic, sensitive, depressed, etc. Boys are frequently emo, unlike in the Goth scene which was mainly girls. People dress fairly conventionally but in dark colors, in contrast to the Goth scene of the 90's which was referencing victoriana- lace, satin, velvet, bodices, etc. Art making and Singing valued.

Juggalettes/ Juggalloes- Fans of Insane Clown Posse. This is new to me too.

 

[dangrsmind]

So... Sicktanick just copied some pretty hieroglyphics?

(if this is just stupid, feel free to tell me. it's early, even in maine....)

No. SickTanick knows exactly what he is doing.

I was referring here to the students participating in Longwood's secret societies.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Also, piggybacking on Blou, if you didn't check out the links, Liberty and Regent are Fundamentalist Christian Schools. The former created by Jerry Falwell and, the latter, by Pat Robertson. Regent was originally named The Christian Broadcasting Network University (is it just me or is that. . .scary??).

No, it's scary.

Also, Jason Mraz went to Longmont o_0 . Burn his records! (Seriously, he's terrible.)

 

[dangrsmind]

Been reading along, with little time to spare..but can so can some one 'splain to me how the Raver's, the Emo's, amd the Juggalettes/Jugalloes differ?-- Paximus

Raver-- Alcohol shunned for the most part. Ecstatic dancing for hours on end provided by djs. Music is continuous, very positive and extremely loud. Energy drinks, Ecstacy drug of choice. Major danger: dancing too much, sending electrolytes out of whack by too much dancing/ water, and of course hearing damage. Frequent Ecstacy use may lead to depression eventually. Typical raver wears clothing all colors of the rainbow, wide legged pants, giant platform shoes, and a pacifier on a necklace. More commonly people wear silly costume- like accessories such as a hat with neon feather trim. Sometimes candy necklaces around the neck. This may be connected to the strichhanine in the drugs that causes them to grind their teeth. Raves are pretty expensive, complicated to find, and requiring a long time commitment (dance for 8 plus hours, then sleep the day away).

Emos-- A term that has a tinge of derision-- "he's/ she's so emo." May be a short term identity. Weepy, sad, tragic, sensitive, depressed, etc. Boys are frequently emo, unlike in the Goth scene which was mainly girls. People dress fairly conventionally but in dark colors, in contrast to the Goth scene of the 90's which was referencing victoriana- lace, satin, velvet, bodices, etc. Art making and Singing valued.

Juggalettes/ Juggalloes- Fans of Insane Clown Posse. This is new to me too.

Emo kids listen to specific bands too. Weezer, My Chemical Romance, and many more...I don't follow this very much.

Identifying characteristics:

Ravers: "candy", phat pants (old school), the "raver heart", furry leggings, neon fishnet stockings, glow sticks, etc. See also "prostitots"

Emo: black hair hanging across the face, depression, whining, all black clothes

Jugallos/Jugallettes: clown make up, Hatchet man necklace or shirts, "woop woop"

All three groups like to get wasted. And alcohol is much more common at raves now than it used to be for various reasons.

That bit about strychnine in "raver drugs" made me laugh. This is not true, "gurning" is a side effect of the drug itself. Also very few people dance for "8 hours". A typical party starts at 10PM and very very few of them go until 6AM. I don't understand the bit about raves being expensive. Most parties are free or less than $20. If your raves are "expensive" you are doing it wrong.

Also it used to be true that raves were "hard to find" because they were held at secret and illegal locations. This is not true so much anymore, although here in San Francisco due to some recent aggressive enforcement this idea is making a big comeback. The last two "raves" I went to were at well known art warehouses that have had many many parties in them. These locations are the opposite of hard to find, everyone knows where they are, and the hosts often provide shuttle bus services to the location from a nearby parking site.

It might be worth differentiating warehouse parties like this from "renegades" which are generally held outdoors at a location which is revealed only at the last minute to avoid detection.

ETA: BTW "candy" isn't really candy, it is plastic jewelry made by kids in the raver subculture known as "candy kids". People give this away at parties and the most prized candy are not the ones you make yourself but the ones people give you.

PLUR

 

[tapu]

Well. I sure have a lot of things swirling in my head about that, esp regarding the temporal component signification can have but I don't have the facility with these concepts that some of you do at present. Interesting, though.... I may pick up the Chandler. Is that a good idea, blou?




[the tapu ponders] :waitasec:

 

[AndresEscobar]

I'm going to disagree with some of the definition of "emo" here. I will come out of the closet to say that in my late high school and early college years I may have dressed in a style that might have been interpreted as emoish, though I considered myself indie.

Generally, the idea is: tight pants, bright colored shirts (think, t-shirts with strange things on them, stuff you'd find in a thrift store). Also, sweaters. Argyle, cardigan, again, uglier color patterns the better. Black horn rimmed glasses are a must, some wear studded belts. Doc martins or black converses, gross looking snow boots. Jackets, again stuff you'd find at a thrift store, corduroy, trench, suede.

Hair is generally longish -- with emphasis on the long bangs, but not necessarily black. I never dyed my hair black, but I didn't consider myself emo, I just dressed "indie".

The concept of emo musically is that there were a few waves. It began with bands like Rites of Spring, in the 80s, and eventually died down. The second wave was spearheaded by sunny day real estate, fugazi, jawbreaker, etc.

Then, when I got into it, it was bands like the promise ring, Weezer's "Pinkerton", Joan of Arc, Jimmy eat world: again, I was mostly into Indie at the time but they're related.

Then, Emo hit the mainstream, and a punch of mall poppunk/emo bands started popping up.

The basic idea is embarrassingly personal lyrics, loudish but melodic guitars, some different time signatures. Emo singers don't sing the same way normal singers do: their voices are generally poorly trained, break easily, there's some screaming.

After it hit mainstream, hot topic began carrying all sorts of things it started marketing as emo. So, tweens and teens got into it.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Tapu your nose does not look big to me. Im Jewish and I know my big noses.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I'm going to disagree with some of the definition of "emo" here. I will come out of the closet to say that in my late high school and early college years I may have dressed in a style that might have been interpreted as emoish, though I considered myself indie.

Generally, the idea is: tight pants, bright colored shirts (think, t-shirts with strange things on them, stuff you'd find in a thrift store). Also, sweaters. Argyle, cardigan, again, uglier color patterns the better. Black horn rimmed glasses are a must, some wear studded belts. Doc martins or black converses, gross looking snow boots. Jackets, again stuff you'd find at a thrift store, corduroy, trench, suede.

Hair is generally longish -- with emphasis on the long bangs, but not necessarily black. I never dyed my hair black, but I didn't consider myself emo, I just dressed "indie".

The concept of emo musically is that there were a few waves. It began with bands like Rites of Spring, in the 80s, and eventually died down. The second wave was spearheaded by sunny day real estate, fugazi, jawbreaker, etc.

Then, when I got into it, it was bands like the promise ring, Weezer's "Pinkerton", Joan of Arc, Jimmy eat world: again, I was mostly into Indie at the time but they're related.

Then, Emo hit the mainstream, and a punch of mall poppunk/emo bands started popping up.

The basic idea is embarrassingly personal lyrics, loudish but melodic guitars, some different time signatures. Emo singers don't sing the same way normal singers do: their voices are generally poorly trained, break easily, there's some screaming.

After it hit mainstream, hot topic began carrying all sorts of things it started marketing as emo. So, tweens and teens got into it.

Interesting, I was always the Sid Vicious type, pretty hard core punk and very much in to Dead Kennedys and Sex Pistols <3

Pretty much me in HS and college lol