VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #6

[dangrsmind]

...I'm thinking,i'm thinking,I need a hint...the next step...I'm trying to think who is behind trying to prevent "the truth" from being known?...who doesn't want us to eat the apple? "father,why have you forsaken me?"...even jesus,said that ,right?

Take a step back...

What tree was the apple picked from? It's a Kabbalistic reference.

 

[dangrsmind]

From my Christian point of view calling evil good is a sin against God. It is simply lying. "Not bear false witness against thy neighbour:". That is all I am going to say about it.

The term lying suggests devious intention. Here we are simply having a discussion of an unpopular idea. One or more of us might be misinformed, but I don't think anyone is lying.

 

[claudicici]

wow,now i have a lot to think about,i always consider myself agnostic because i don't know much,i remember when i read the bible and thought about it a lot,i could never understand how the god in the old testament is supposed to be the same in the new one....i used to think of the new testament a lot,i could really imagine if mary was raped or became pregnant unmarried back then and she was only like 13 how she could have used the old story of the virgin birth so she would not be prosecuted.i read she grew up in a temple and was educated ....reading the new testament i always felt as if jesus was not too happy about who he was supposed to be...he even tried to hide from it all for 30 years...

 

[dangrsmind]

Just another comment, a lot of the sources I listed above are in fact Christian scholars. Remember the King James bible is not the only version of the bible. It is a translation and arguably an incomplete, biased, and not very good one. It is not a Satanic, occult, or anti-Christian idea to suggest that King James had political motivations for some of these "mistakes"; it is a historical argument.

See http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/kjverror.html and also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_I_of_England

 

[peace_gurl]

The term lying suggests devious intention. Here we are simply having a discussion of an unpopular idea. One or more of us might be misinformed, but I don't think anyone is lying.

In my Christian point of view I believe it is lying. No disrespect to any of you. Sorry if I offended anyone. I have been offended more than once but I realize to each his own. ~S~

 

[dangrsmind]

In my Christian point of view I believe it is lying. No disrespect to any of you. Sorry if I offended anyone. I have been offended more than once but I realize to each his own. ~S~

With all due respect, your "Christian Point of View" seems decidedly un-Christian to me.

This is precisely where Christians get into trouble with what they believe to be true about the bible, that it is literally the words of God, and the historical facts regarding the version they are basing their arguments on. The King James bible is known to be a purposely mistranslated version which was created for and approved by King James I of England to support his political position that kings stood above the pope.

Ask a Catholic about it.

 

[Wes]

The ironic thing is that by believing what you have been taught to believe you are already on the path of the old switcheroo, billions of people all over the world walking the path of darkness and ignorance because they have been led to believe that the serpent (lucifer) is dark and their god YHVH is light but of course to those who spend the time studying and reflecting on these matters nothing could be further from the truth. Look around you and tell me that most of the people in this world, all whom believe in that story as it was taught to them by their pastors, priests, preachers and rabbis, are following light as opposed to darkness. You cannot.

In the end do what is best for you but make no mistake about it, the switcheroo is a done deal and youre likely already on that path like it or not.

Thats not to say youre all a bunch of devil worshipers or anything, I know better than that, but the state of the world, a world created upon the foundation of that very story, speaks for itself.

:doh:

 

[Wes]

Paximus taught me years ago that one of the biggest and most cherished beliefs teachings and closely gaurded secrets of the occult community is that the Serpent in the book of Genesis in the Garden of Eden is the real force of goodness and that his adversary in that story YHVH the God that is worshiped by the Judeo-Christian religions is the one who lied to you and wants to lead you astray, keep you controlled, in the dark and ignorant of your true nature.

Evidence you may ask:'

God tells Adam and Eve if they eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, sometimes mistakingly symbolized as an apple "you shall surely die"

The Serpent responds that God does not want you to eat it because you will not die but rather you will become LIKE THE GODS themselves, all knowing all powerful and with a knowledge of your true nature and destiny.

So they eat of it and God says " Oh look they have eaten of it and now THEY HAVE BECOME LIKE ONE OF US."

They didnt die.

So who told the truth? The Serpent, who said if they ate of it they would become like the Gods. The Gods lied and said they would die, but after they ate of it the Gods CONFIRMED what the Serpent said "Oh look, now they have become like one of us"

The Serpent told the truth and God lied to you.

Think deeply about this, it is at the heart of ALL occult teachings.

Satan is the father of lies and is good at twisting and distorting. You say Adam and Eve didn't die. I say they did, a long time ago.

 

[Splendor Solis]

wow,now i have a lot to think about,i always consider myself agnostic because i don't know much,i remember when i read the bible and thought about it a lot,i could never understand how the god in the old testament is supposed to be the same in the new one....i used to think of the new testament a lot,i could really imagine if mary was raped or became pregnant unmarried back then and she was only like 13 how she could have used the old story of the virgin birth so she would not be prosecuted.i read she grew up in a temple and was educated ....reading the new testament i always felt as if jesus was not too happy about who he was supposed to be...he even tried to hide from it all for 30 years...

1. The God in each isn't any different. The approaches are different.

2. I see your point on Mary and have thought about that as well. The belief in miracles, ghosts, possession, etc. is central to believing in the virgin birth IMO. If you believe in the ability of God to intervene, then it's not any stretch to beilieve her and Joseph's stories.

3. It's not about whether he was happy or not. Honestly, who would look forward to being betrayed, ridiculed and beaten in front of the whole town, and then crucified? I know I wouldn't. He struggled with it, he wasn't "hiding" from it.

 

[Splendor Solis]

With all due respect, your "Christian Point of View" seems decidedly un-Christian to me.

This is precisely where Christians get into trouble with what they believe to be true about the bible, that it is literally the words of God, and the historical facts regarding the version they are basing their arguments on. The King James bible is known to be a purposely mistranslated version which was created for and approved by King James I of England to support his political position that kings stood above the pope.

Ask a Catholic about it.

It's not just the version of the Bible. Catholicism also believes that Protestantism is leading all of it's followers in the wrong direction, thanks to Martin Luther and his butchering of the Bible. Somewhat fitting in to the earlier conversation on who was actually leading to the dark.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Hey Ziggy- hope your tests went well.

Sorry I've been neglecting you all, the time I've had for this board has been sucked into the Alyssa Bustamante thread. Wish more would come out.

 

[AndresEscobar]

It's not just the version of the Bible. Catholicism also believes that Protestantism is leading all of it's followers in the wrong direction, thanks to Martin Luther and his butchering of the Bible. Somewhat fitting in to the earlier conversation on who was actually leading to the dark.

Also, the other way around. I was raised Catholic, and was told by my girlfriends fundie mother that that meant I was "ignorant" and going to hell.

I would think that I don't practice and am agnostic would be worse, but not to her.

 

[Splendor Solis]

Also, the other way around. I was raised Catholic, and was told by my girlfriends fundie mother that that meant I was "ignorant" and going to hell.

I would think that I don't practice and am agnostic would be worse, but not to her.

Yeah, I've heard it that way too growing up a Catholic. Especially since we can't "quote every verse in the Bible" and "worship mary and those saints". I still laugh when I hear that.

 

[DoctorZ]

Also, the other way around. I was raised Catholic, and was told by my girlfriends fundie mother that that meant I was "ignorant" and going to hell.

I would think that I don't practice and am agnostic would be worse, but not to her.

I was also raised Catholic and was told I would go to hell for it. Funny part is, the person who told me this now has 3 kids but has never been married. She still tells me I'm going to hell for being Catholic but she's alright.

I don't mean to say that everyone is like that. Just that the people who pick and choose the rules that apply are part of what turns some away from the church.

 

[dangrsmind]

Satan is the father of lies and is good at twisting and distorting. You say Adam and Eve didn't die. I say they did, a long time ago.

Every one that is born must die. Every thing that is created must cease to exist. Anyone that tells you otherwise is a liar and they are preying on your fear of death to sell you something.

Impermanence (anitya) is one of the three marks of existence also known as the three dharma seals. The other two are unsatisfactoriness or suffering (dukha) and the fact of non-self (anatman).

"The secret is how to die."
--Mal'akh in Dan Brown's The Lost Symbol

 

[DoctorZ]

Every one that is born must die. Every thing that is created must cease to exist. Anyone that tells you otherwise is a liar and they are preying on your fear of death to sell you something.

Impermanence (anitya) is one of the three marks of existence also known as the three dharma seals. The other two are unsatisfactoriness or suffering (dukha) and the fact of non-self (anatman).

"The secret is how to die."
--Mal'akh in Dan Brown's The Lost Symbol

Very interesting. I know very little about Buddhism. Now I have something to look up all afternoon instead of working.

 

[Wes]

Every one that is born must die. Every thing that is created must cease to exist. Anyone that tells you otherwise is a liar and they are preying on your fear of death to sell you something.

Impermanence (anitya) is one of the three marks of existence also known as the three dharma seals. The other two are unsatisfactoriness or suffering (dukha) and the fact of non-self (anatman).

"The secret is how to die."
--Mal'akh in Dan Brown's The Lost Symbol

So how did God lie to Adam and Eve? Disobeying and eating of the apple brought sin into the world. Did you think it meant they would die immediately?

 

[DoctorZ]

So how did God lie to Adam and Eve? Disobeying and eating of the apple brought sin into the world. Did you think it meant they would die immediately?

What were immoral acts before sin was brought into the world?

 

[ericclimbs]

Very interesting. I know very little about Buddhism. Now I have something to look up all afternoon instead of working.

I have a friend who I haven't talked to in a while -- he currently lives in Hawaii, but he is Buddhist. He feels very strongly about it and chants everyday. He believes not only in reincarnation but reincarnation on other planets in the universe. He believes that, here on planet Earth, we are living in what would be the Christian equivalent of Hell. This is the lowest place to be incarnate. I am agnostic but, from the horror Mankind is able to perpetrate, I don't find this line of thought hard to digest. Yes there is joy and happiness to be had in this life but there are also profound sorrows.

I would be interested to hear if you find anything along these lines as you research buddhism DocZ. And also anything Pax or Dangrs might know about this idea. (or anyone else for that matter -- I just know those two know a little something about Buddhism!)

 

[dangrsmind]

So how did God lie to Adam and Eve? Disobeying and eating of the apple brought sin into the world. Did you think it meant they would die immediately?

Your question is based on a literal interpretation of the events described in Genesis which I don't accept. Consider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life_(Judeo-Christian)

Also I don't even agree that the Torah says this.

God in fact does say that humans will die immediately, "on the day", on which they eat from the tree of knowledge. Genesis 2:17 "But of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat of it, for on the day that you eat thereof, you shall surely die." This sounds pretty specific to me and the Hebrew is clear I think so I don't agree with your interpretation of this at all.

In Genesis it is also specifically stated that all people must die.

Genesis 3:19 "With the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, until you return to the ground, for you were taken therefrom, for dust you are, and to dust you will return."

And speaking of being dust: http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/050921a.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk