VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #7

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wow, looks like this thread is about to get ugly.

The DP debate is a pointless one. Some people think it's justified. Some people love it and get off on it. Some people find it abhorrent. Some people can tolerate it in limited circumstances. No one is going to change anyone's opinion about it.
 
I'm not here to change anyone's opinion & this thread will only get ugly.. if you let it..
 
NativeGirl said:
Jesus had no problem with the DP...The New Testament says..

Jesus said, "For God commanded, saying, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.'" - Matthew 15:4

And as Jesus hung on the cross, one of the criminals mocked Him.

"But the other, answering, rebuked him (the other criminal) saying, 'Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.'" - Luke 23:40-41

In that passage of scripture the criminal says that they, meaning himself and the other criminal, are being justly punished, being put to death for their crimes. And when you look at the apostle Paul in the book of Acts, he says,

"For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar." - Acts 25:11

For God established the governing authorities (Romans 13:1), and it is to them the responsibility of putting those to death who commit capital crimes.

"For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil." - Romans 13:3-4

And finally, it is stated in the book of Revelation,

"He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." - Revelation 13:9-10


Well, there you have it. Old and New Testament support for the death penalty. God does support it. If you have any doubts, just pick up your Bible. It's all right there for you to read.
Click to expand...


I am Jewish not only have I read the bible but I have read it in its original unedited unchanged language unlike the KJV which has been edited changed and altered to fit all sorts of different political agendas over the years and that doesnt even bring in to the discussion the fact that over 54 books are missing from the bible supressed by papal councils and deemed heretical books themselves which were used by earliest Christian communities and which tell a completely different story than the ones the popes decided to include in the canon. Not only do I know what the bible says but I know what it says in Hebrew the way it was intended to be read and I can tell you that the english translation that everyone reads is about 50% inaccurate on most accounts simply because you cant translate languages that accurately, especially the kind of language used in biblical times.

Jesus Peter Paul and John the Baptist just to name a few were all killed by the roman dealth pentalty so I find it ironic that christians can support such a thing and I stand by my suggestion that there is no way Jesus would support the DP as we know it in this country today.
 
NativeGirl said:
Jesus had no problem with the DP...The New Testament says..

Jesus said, "For God commanded, saying, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.'" - Matthew 15:4

And as Jesus hung on the cross, one of the criminals mocked Him.

"But the other, answering, rebuked him (the other criminal) saying, 'Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.'" - Luke 23:40-41

In that passage of scripture the criminal says that they, meaning himself and the other criminal, are being justly punished, being put to death for their crimes. And when you look at the apostle Paul in the book of Acts, he says,

"For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar." - Acts 25:11

For God established the governing authorities (Romans 13:1), and it is to them the responsibility of putting those to death who commit capital crimes.

"For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil." - Romans 13:3-4

And finally, it is stated in the book of Revelation,

"He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." - Revelation 13:9-10


Well, there you have it. Old and New Testament support for the death penalty. God does support it. If you have any doubts, just pick up your Bible. It's all right there for you to read.
Click to expand...

Wow your version of Jesus is pretty pissed off.

Of course for those of us that don't believe in new testament you've just listed some of the sorts of things that seem contradictory and make us wonder about other less self contradictory systems such as Buddhism.

jesus-angry.jpg

Angry Jesus Scares Me...
 
NativeGirl said:
I'm not here to change anyone's opinion & this thread will only get ugly.. if you let it..
Click to expand...

Nah no need for it to become personal my friend. Its just discussion, there is no need at all for it to become ugly. We have come a long way respecting eachothers opinions and I dont see why we cant continue to do so even if it gets a little heated.

I absolutely respect your opinion and dont think otherwise, I just simply disagree with it sometimes.
 
NativeGirl said:
Jesus had no problem with the DP...The New Testament says..

Jesus said, "For God commanded, saying, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.'" - Matthew 15:4

And as Jesus hung on the cross, one of the criminals mocked Him.

"But the other, answering, rebuked him (the other criminal) saying, 'Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.'" - Luke 23:40-41

In that passage of scripture the criminal says that they, meaning himself and the other criminal, are being justly punished, being put to death for their crimes. And when you look at the apostle Paul in the book of Acts, he says,

"For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar." - Acts 25:11

For God established the governing authorities (Romans 13:1), and it is to them the responsibility of putting those to death who commit capital crimes.

"For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil." - Romans 13:3-4

And finally, it is stated in the book of Revelation,

"He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." - Revelation 13:9-10


Well, there you have it. Old and New Testament support for the death penalty. God does support it. If you have any doubts, just pick up your Bible. It's all right there for you to read.
Click to expand...

Wow your version of Jesus is pretty pissed off.

Of course for those of us that don't believe in the new testament you've just listed some of the sorts of things that seem contradictory and make us wonder about other less self contradictory systems such as Buddhism.

jesus-angry.jpg

Angry Jesus Scares Me...
 
PAXIMUS said:
I am Jewish not only have I read the bible but I have read it in its original unedited unchanged language unlike the KJV which has been edited changed and altered to fit all sorts of different political agendas over the years and that doesnt even bring in to the discussion the fact that over 54 books are missing from the bible supressed by papal councils and deemed heretical books themselves which were used by earliest Christian communities and which tell a completely different story than the ones the popes decided to include in the canon. Not only do I know what the bible says but I know what it says in Hebrew the way it was intended to be read and I can tell you that the english translation that everyone reads is about 50% inaccurate on most accounts simply because you cant translate languages that accurately, especially the kind of language used in biblical times.

Jesus Peter Paul and John the Baptist just to name a few were all killed by the roman dealth pentalty so I find it ironic that christians can support such a thing and I stand by my suggestion that there is no way Jesus would support the DP as we know it in this country today.
Click to expand...

well this is the U.S.A and you are free to think how you want.. but from what I understand and seen in the Bible that Jesus did not oppose the Death Penalty.

The Jesus of the Bible supported the death penalty. It was not His purpose for coming. Therefore, He said only a little about it. But He supported it nonetheless. When He returns to the earth the next time, His perspective will be different. Then, He will come as judge and will be executing the death penalty (see Revelation 19:11-15).

The problem has nothing to do with the clarity of scripture. It has everything to do with the carnal preconceptions of man. Man wants a toothless Jesus. He wants the Jesus who suffers the little children to come but he rejects the Jesus who runs the moneychangers out of the temple with a whip. He wants a Jesus who will smile on his fornication and adultery, on his dishonesty and hypocrisy, with a boys-will-be-boys look. He does not want the Jesus who called the Pharisees a bunch of ugly names (see Matthew 23) or the One who talked about hell more than He talked about heaven.

In short, modern man wants, and so envisions, “another Jesus.”

Jesus believed in the death penalty. It was established by God, codified by the law, supported by Jesus Himself and sustained by the Apostle Paul. Theologians have no biblical evidence against it. They only have their perception of another Jesus. I don't follow that other Jesus I remain faithful to the Jesus of the Holy Bible.
 
PAXIMUS said:
Nah no need for it to become personal my friend. Its just discussion, there is no need at all for it to become ugly. We have come a long way respecting eachothers opinions and I dont see why we cant continue to do so even if it gets a little heated.

I absolutely respect your opinion and dont think otherwise, I just simply disagree with it sometimes.
Click to expand...

Im glad we can be adults and that you can share what you think and your views with me.. I am serious...
 
So, i was listening to my favorite rap group (the clipse) before trial today (which i always do, kinda like Dwight Schrute) and, being from virginia, they said "Virginia is for Hustlaz".

So, is virginia for lovers or is virginia for hustlers?

This weighs heavy on my mind.
 
“The murderer shall surely be put to death” (Numbers 35:16-18)

Please do not forget that Mark, Debra, Em and Mel were victims. Letting Sam get life will just degrade the lives of Mark, Debra, Em and Mel. It was his free will to commit these 4 murders. I believe he needs to pay the ultimate price…. only one problem is Sam can not pay the ultimate price FOUR times.
 
AndresEscobar said:
So, i was listening to my favorite rap group (the clipse) before trial today (which i always do, kinda like Dwight Schrute) and, being from virginia, they said "Virginia is for Hustlaz".

So, is virginia for lovers or is virginia for hustlers?

This weighs heavy on my mind.
Click to expand...

VA is For Lovers...

LOL you like the clipse?? WOW.. thats shocking!!
 
AndresEscobar said:
So, i was listening to my favorite rap group (the clipse) before trial today (which i always do, kinda like Dwight Schrute) and, being from virginia, they said "Virginia is for Hustlaz".

So, is virginia for lovers or is virginia for hustlers?

This weighs heavy on my mind.
Click to expand...
Aren't you glad you do not live the the Commonwealth?
 
peace_gurl said:
“The murderer shall surely be put to death” (Numbers 35:16-18)

Please do not forget that Mark, Debra, Em and Mel were victims. Letting Sam get life will just degrade the lives of Mark, Debra, Em and Mel. It was his free will to commit these 4 murders. I believe he needs to pay the ultimate price…. only one problem is Sam can not pay the ultimate price FOUR times.
Click to expand...

That's nice.

I think life in prison will suffice.
 
NativeGirl, I think that you didn't write that.

http://www.learnthebible.org/would-jesus-oppose-the-death-penalty.html

Regardless, my view is that this is a serious misreading of both the old and new testaments. Thou shalt not kill is one of the ten commandments; there are no exceptions, there is no fine print.

“He that is without sin among you" means "no one" since no man or woman is without sin.
 
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