VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #8

[CharlieChan]

All cops (skinny or otherwise) come with a 9 mm attached to their belt. I would suggest that he thot this particular guy was friendly and amicable (not all are) and he could run his jazz (confused jazz) past him and further his cause. If you look at Sam's face when LE approaches him at the airport, he looks like a 9 year old.

 

[ziggy]

Yes I recall these allegations were to counter the speculation that perhaps Sam was going to use an insanity defense and that defense would likely require that he did not know right from wrong in his actions. Therefore, these unsubstantiated allegations that came from our member's chat with a co-owner of the funeral home that handled Emma and Debra, the co-owner who is also the brother of the cop who went to the house to ask about the whereabouts of Mel and who had a face to face with Sam. Same told him they were at the movies...

Now back to the allegations. The police department has been very tight lipped, but the information gleaned from the funeral home co-owner was this...

DISCLAIMER: This information is based on hearsay and is not substantiated in fact. The reader must use his/her/its own discretion ...

**** That Sam put the bodies of the three women in one room to conceal the smell and that he further tried to conceal it by using air cleaning machines (that were already at the home) along with scented candles.

And the reason for that being brought up was to show that Sam knew what he had done was wrong in light of a possible insanity plea.

I recall after reading the search warrants that it appeared to me that at least one killing could have taken place in the den, due to the evidence there. That person may have been moved to the room, which I AM SPECULATING, is Emma's room by the description and location in search warrant.

Which only leaves me with more questions about all three women being killed in defenseless positions, either asleep or otherwise.

And more concerning the pets..
DISCLAIMER: This information is based on hearsay and is not substantiated in fact. The reader must use his/her/its own discretion ...
*** the two dogs were typically kept outside in the back. Debra also had two cats but no other info on where the cats stayed or where their litter box was.

 

[ziggy]

All cops (skinny or otherwise) come with a 9 mm attached to their belt. I would suggest that he thot this particular guy was friendly and amicable (not all are) and he could run his jazz (confused jazz) past him and further his cause. If you look at Sam's face when LE approaches him at the airport, he looks like a 9 year old.

That's a great point Mr. Chan. We now know that the idea Sam wanted to kill the cop was completely subjective on the part of that officer. Since the lone skinny cop was easy to "make go away" and pretty friendly to Sam, he may have wanted the same guy to easily BS his was through whatever his lame plan was -since that officer bought his story about the movies and all.

Edited to add: but that scenario leads us to Sam's motive for calling about noises in the basement as one of what??? Trying to implicate SODDI into the story?

 

[LaWanda]

See? This is why I only do drive bys ... you guys provide interesting reads. I love this thread. =)

 

[DoctorZ]

Yes I recall these allegations were to counter the speculation that perhaps Sam was going to use an insanity defense and that defense would likely require that he did not know right from wrong in his actions. Therefore, these unsubstantiated allegations that came from our member's chat with a co-owner of the funeral home that handled Emma and Debra, the co-owner who is also the brother of the cop who went to the house to ask about the whereabouts of Mel and who had a face to face with Sam. Same told him they were at the movies...

Now back to the allegations. The police department has been very tight lipped, but the information gleaned from the funeral home co-owner was this...

DISCLAIMER: This information is based on hearsay and is not substantiated in fact. The reader must use his/her/its own discretion ...

**** That Sam put the bodies of the three women in one room to conceal the smell and that he further tried to conceal it by using air cleaning machines (that were already at the home) along with scented candles.

And the reason for that being brought up was to show that Sam knew what he had done was wrong in light of a possible insanity plea.

I recall after reading the search warrants that it appeared to me that at least one killing could have taken place in the den, due to the evidence there. That person may have been moved to the room, which I AM SPECULATING, is Emma's room by the description and location in search warrant.

Which only leaves me with more questions about all three women being killed in defenseless positions, either asleep or otherwise.

And more concerning the pets..
DISCLAIMER: This information is based on hearsay and is not substantiated in fact. The reader must use his/her/its own discretion ...
*** the two dogs were typically kept outside in the back. Debra also had two cats but no other info on where the cats stayed or where their litter box was.

I believe the wording from multiple articles was "one or more" were asleep or in defenseless positions. Which brings me to a gross question. I assume the girls were sleeping in the same room. How loud would the maul smashing a skull be? Would the other girl have woken up?

I think it was Debra who was killed in the den, on her way to way Emma's room in the morning.

 

[dangrsmind]

Pax asking for that link to the Din of Sin board reminded me of this "letter to Sam" that PiXy posted over there:

DEAR SAMMY
If Emma ****ed YOU over soooooo bad before the show why not murder her after she did it aka BEFORE SFTW
oh thats right bc that show def wasnt worth missing right sam? So u leave Friday morning, hang out, show was saturday, hang out all day Sunday, leave to go back to VA Monday and what she supposedly did to you still hadnt mad u snap?
oh but lets see u ride all the way back with her wait a day or so then slaughter your beautiful girlfriend, her mother and Melaroni ..... wait patiently like the good lil loner picked on boy you are for daddy to come there and kill him too...... wow you must have some kind of delayed "snap" cuz that took 5 days after she supposedly ****ed you over so bad you couldnt handle it. That why you were making out with that other chick all nite?
hmmmmm
WHY NOT AFTER THE SHOW THAT WAS SO IMPORTANT, BRING UR BAGS AND TICKET, CATCH A RIDE WITH ANY OF THE NUMEROUS ARTISTS THAT WERE ALSO GOING TO THE AIRPORT AND TRADE THAT LIL TICKET IN INSTEAD OF BUYIN ALL THAT MERCH U WILL NEVER USE??
Go back home to ur lil garage. The End.

 

[dangrsmind]

I believe the wording from multiple articles was "one or more" were asleep or in defenseless positions. Which brings me to a gross question. I assume the girls were sleeping in the same room. How loud would the maul smashing a skull be? Would the other girl have woken up?

I think it was Debra who was killed in the den, on her way to way Emma's room in the morning.

You would have to try the experiment with an animal skull and record the sound levels IMO.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Pax asking for that link to the Din of Sin board reminded me of this "letter to Sam" that PiXy posted over there:

DEAR SAMMY
If Emma ****ed YOU over soooooo bad before the show why not murder her after she did it aka BEFORE SFTW
oh thats right bc that show def wasnt worth missing right sam? So u leave Friday morning, hang out, show was saturday, hang out all day Sunday, leave to go back to VA Monday and what she supposedly did to you still hadnt mad u snap?
oh but lets see u ride all the way back with her wait a day or so then slaughter your beautiful girlfriend, her mother and Melaroni ..... wait patiently like the good lil loner picked on boy you are for daddy to come there and kill him too...... wow you must have some kind of delayed "snap" cuz that took 5 days after she supposedly ****ed you over so bad you couldnt handle it. That why you were making out with that other chick all nite?
hmmmmm
WHY NOT AFTER THE SHOW THAT WAS SO IMPORTANT, BRING UR BAGS AND TICKET, CATCH A RIDE WITH ANY OF THE NUMEROUS ARTISTS THAT WERE ALSO GOING TO THE AIRPORT AND TRADE THAT LIL TICKET IN INSTEAD OF BUYIN ALL THAT MERCH U WILL NEVER USE??
Go back home to ur lil garage. The End.

Yea I had that letter saved in my Sam notes profile but lost it in the reformat effort last night. Glad to report all computers are healthy and zipping fast which is the one nice thing about formatting, it gets rid of all the junk and the comp runs like new again. But that letter is one of the reasons I wanted that link again in addition I wanted the new comers to have access to that forum for the info [pixy provided, like Woe B Gone.

 

[tapu]

now that hurts

EDITED TO ADD: taPU: I don't think anyone got "livin' the dream" either. I am so right there with you. Andreas is like our big toe.

Yeah.... In the worst of times, I remind myself: Wadahoot gets me.....

 

[PAXIMUS]

Lets have a show of hands here, just quote this post and say which option you pick:

1--Sam is a sociopath.

2--This was strictly a one time thing for Sam, a crime of passion where the perfect storm came together and he snapped but otherwise could have went his whole life without being a murderer.

3--Not enough information to draw a conclusion yet.


I am somewhere between 2 and 3 right now but leaning more towards crime of passion.

I am interested in what the rest of you think so please take a moment to participate.

Thanks.

 

[tapu]

Have I mentioned I'm Agnostic?

 

[AndresEscobar]

Ziggy, in regards to the first red speculation disclaimer concerning the candles and air cleaning machines, here are my questions to its authenticity (that i don't expect you to answer):

1. Why would a funeral parlor owner be subject to such knowledge, such as whether and where the suspected perpetrator placed the bodies and intimate details of the crime involving Sam's purported attempt to cover it up?

2. If it's from the lone skinny cop, why would the lone skinny cop jeopardize an investigation by telling his brother details of a crime, who would then tell it to someone who would broadcast it on the internet?

3. Why did the story change from "someone put clean air machines" in the room to add, after we questioned whether Sam purchased them, that they were already in the house?

Also, wasn't there rumors that the window was supposedly open and that's how the smell was originally discovered out from the sidewalk and street? Doesn't that fly in the face of what was originally claimed to be a sealed room with the clean air machines (multiple).

Again, still smells the same to me as the day it was proffered to us in that quixotic manner.

 

[ziggy]

Lets have a show of hands here, just quote this post and say which option you pick:

1--Sam is a sociopath.

2--This was strictly a one time thing for Sam, a crime of passion where the perfect storm came together and he snapped but otherwise could have went his whole life without being a murderer.

3--Not information to draw a conclusion yet.


I am somewhere between 2 and 3 right now but leaning more towards crime of passion.

I am interested in what the rest of you think so please take a moment to participate.

Thanks.

Monty, I'll pick door number 3.

I'm between 1 and 3 but only in the sense that I think Sam's behavior was anti-social and most likely brought on by detachment due to his upbringing and furthered by desensitization due to immersion in horrorcore etc. I have no background in psychology or such to back that up.

You know I feel sorry for any human being who was not fortunate enough to been brought up with love, touch, affection, proper discipline and guidance. I can't help but feel that lack of those things can do severe damage. However, the fact that not everyone in those circumstances becomes a monster means there is some personal culpability involved. It's just sad all the way around. I'm sorry for Sam and his sister to have parents, and I am confused by a girl like Emma who had seemingly good parents, but wanted to raise hell.

A crime of passion requires adequate provocation, with no cooling off period and words alone cannot suffice as provocation unless they are specific words of information. (sorry just practicing those darn definitions).

I realize that there can be a build up and the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back, but I don't see any provocation that would justify a voluntary manslaughter as you suggest. Any "crime of passion" you may think it is, if it's outside these elements it makes Sam a cold blooded killer - and perhaps each killing was done with a different motivation depending upon either his fanasy or the way the circumstances unfolded once the actions were set in motion.

If this were a crime of passion I would expect him to go after Emma, but not everyone else and not the pastor days later.

To really understand HOW it all happened requires way more information and the HOW, as in the timeline, method, sequence etc., is what will give more insight into motive.

 

[AndresEscobar]

With regard to the cats and dogs: this doesn't particularly mean anything.

1. We've heard it before.

2. It's offered in a manner to suggest that Sam moved the dogs down to the basement, but it doesn't do that. The dogs could have been moved down there for any reason by anyone.

3. This information about the number of pets and where they were generally kept is nearly impossible for any of us to substantiate.

 

[AndresEscobar]

btw, I'll take number 3 as well, but I'm unsure whether you're offering them on a spectrum with not knowing enough information to be the middle ground. I don't think it's either he's a sociopath or it's a crime of passion. Could be other stuff too.

 

[ziggy]

Yeah.... In the worst of times, I remind myself: Wadahoot gets me.....

"Ouch babe"

 

[tapu]

Ziggy, in regards to the first red speculation disclaimer concerning the candles and air cleaning machines, here are my questions to its authenticity (that i don't expect you to answer):

1. Why would a funeral parlor owner be subject to such knowledge, such as whether and where the suspected perpetrator placed the bodies and intimate details of the crime involving Sam's purported attempt to cover it up?

2. If it's from the lone skinny cop, why would the lone skinny cop jeopardize an investigation by telling his brother details of a crime, who would then tell it to someone who would broadcast it on the internet?

3. Why did the story change from "someone put clean air machines" in the room to add, after we questioned whether Sam purchased them, that they were already in the house?

Also, wasn't there rumors that the window was supposedly open and that's how the smell was originally discovered out from the sidewalk and street? Doesn't that fly in the face of what was originally claimed to be a sealed room with the clean air machines (multiple).

Again, still smells the same to me as the day it was proffered to us in that quixotic manner.

Speaking of something "not sitting right"... Reading you here today, Andres, I'd almost think you have somewhat of a personal vendetta against this other poster. I can't imagine why you would, and so I'm not saying you do, but it comes across that way, to me. Just my assessment, from what you say.

 

[RockDawg]

Lets have a show of hands here, just quote this post and say which option you pick:

1--Sam is a sociopath.

2--This was strictly a one time thing for Sam, a crime of passion where the perfect storm came together and he snapped but otherwise could have went his whole life without being a murderer.

3--Not information to draw a conclusion yet.


I am somewhere between 2 and 3 right now but leaning more towards crime of passion.

I am interested in what the rest of you think so please take a moment to participate.

Thanks.

I think Sam is a sociopath.

I also dont see how someone could snap in a 'crime of passion' and maul FOUR people.

Mauling is serious business and I can see someone snapping ( maybe ) and taking an axe to one person. But come on ! A whole row of people ?

I chop firewood on occasion and I have to stop and catch my breath after a few swings...........

So I can only imagine how it went with Sam. I'm really thinking he was digging it.

 

[ziggy]

Ziggy, in regards to the first red speculation disclaimer concerning the candles and air cleaning machines, here are my questions to its authenticity (that i don't expect you to answer):

1. Why would a funeral parlor owner be subject to such knowledge, such as whether and where the suspected perpetrator placed the bodies and intimate details of the crime involving Sam's purported attempt to cover it up?

2. If it's from the lone skinny cop, why would the lone skinny cop jeopardize an investigation by telling his brother details of a crime, who would then tell it to someone who would broadcast it on the internet?

3. Why did the story change from "someone put clean air machines" in the room to add, after we questioned whether Sam purchased them, that they were already in the house?

Also, wasn't there rumors that the window was supposedly open and that's how the smell was originally discovered out from the sidewalk and street? Doesn't that fly in the face of what was originally claimed to be a sealed room with the clean air machines (multiple).

Again, still smells the same to me as the day it was proffered to us in that quixotic manner.

I click on the multiple quotes thingy and then it doesn nothing...haven't figured that out yet.

1. Because he is the brother of an officer who would have knowledge in his capacity of such facts. I'm sure the officers were talking about it especially with ones who were in direct contact with the scene. I'm sure someone would talk to a family member in the immediate wake of the crime, and before thoughts of picking a jury were entertained. Oops. Humans; so imperfect.

2. See last comment in #1.

3. I do not know. Our member says they know not for certain about air machines but that candles and "air fresheners" were what he specifically mentioned; he being the funeral home co-owner.

If you recall, the window was only opened after the scene was discovered and upon clean up. According to the funeral home guy, the room was "sealed shut" and we don't know exactly what that means.

I recall police saw flies on the window??? The closed window prior to discovery. The window was opened to air out the smell and left open for days afterwards.

Now I ponder, was the air conditioner on in an attempt to slow decomp?

Agree the animals don't make a huge difference except for whether Sam put them down in the basement, hence the feces, and then moved them for when he was expecting lone skinny cop. I wonder if Debra put the dogs there while they were out of town - I wonder if Sam fed the dogs after he killed the owners and if the dogs ever got to barking because they sensed anything going on in the house. Where were the dogs when Mark came over??

Knowing some of these things would shed some light on Sam's state of mind during the time he killed and after.

 

[PAXIMUS]

btw, I'll take number 3 as well, but I'm unsure whether you're offering them on a spectrum with not knowing enough information to be the middle ground. I don't think it's either he's a sociopath or it's a crime of passion. Could be other stuff too.

Well I didnt put a lot of thought it in to the polling options. It was just a response to the debate raging the last few days as to whether he was a sociopath or it was a crime of passion, so given those two options only I wanted to see how many would lean towards which.

Obviously choice 3 is the RIGHT answer since none of us really have the sort of information we need to draw either conclusion.