VA - Freshman daughter, mom 'good time drop off' outrages VA university

[Elley Mae]

Some of the garbage we hear about frats:

Stuff like this:
Wesleyan Sued Over 'Rape Factory' Frat House

And this:
Infamous 'Rapebait' Frat Disbanded for Being Entirely Too Rapey

And this:
'Rapebait' e-mail reveals dark side of frat culture

And this:
Police probe whether UWM fraternity members put drugs in party drinks
3 women, 1 man taken to hospital for intoxication; 1 student arrested

And this:
U. Of Texas-Arlington Fraternity Shut Down After 3 Sexual Assaults Are Reported In Less Than A Month

I read enough about the first link to see that students were warned about that place, off campus again. The signs that were hung said nothing about rape, but for a good time, there is no comparison to this, this just happens to offend some folks. jmo idk

 

[Elley Mae]

The "baby girl" really takes the grossness up a notch for me. I can get the dark humor in theory but in practice it's so tasteless and gives the frat a bad image.

My daughter is 30 and she's still my baby girl.

 

[bluesneakers]

I read enough about the first link to see that students were warned about that place, off campus again. The signs that were hung said nothing about rape, but for a good time, there is no comparison to this, this just happens to offend some folks. jmo idk

Do you also think "No means yes, yes means ...." is funny?

Frat culture is a problem, imo, and frat brothers feel entitled to certain things. Female students are paying the price.

 

[BritsKate]

I read enough about the first link to see that students were warned about that place, off campus again. The signs that were hung said nothing about rape, but for a good time, there is no comparison to this, this just happens to offend some folks. jmo idk

I think it's a really good sign that it offends some of us. It's a sign that we're moving away from excusing, justifying, or normalizing behaviors commonly associated with the rape culture. Good for us. Apparently the school also believes the sexual suggestiveness was more than just inappropriate. Some important highlights of their statements:

At ODU, we foster a community of respect and dignity and these messages sickened us. They are not representative of our 3,000 faculty and staff, 25,000 students and our 130,000 alumni.

Ours is a community that works actively to promote bystander intervention and takes a stand denouncing violence against women.

In addition, the University ensures all students receive education on the prevention of sexual harassment and relationship violence.

An incident occurred this weekend that does not reflect the University’s commitment to the prevention of Sexual Assault and Dating Violence. Not only do these actions taken by a few individuals undermine the countless efforts at Old Dominion University to prevent sexual assault, they are also unwelcoming, offensive, and unacceptable.

While we constantly educate students, faculty and staff about sexual assault and sexual harassment, this incident confirms our collective efforts are still failing to register with some.

I'm relieved the University has taken the stance that this is serious - instead of merely chalking it up as the boys will be boys and girls are too sensitive meme.

 

[Elley Mae]

Not the school but the fraternity that suspended them. Big difference. jmo



Now the Sigma Nu Fraternity has suspended the Eta Chi Chapter at ODU pending an investigation into the banners.

http://wtvr.com/2015/08/24/odu-sexually-suggestive-banners/

bbm I would expect that, but am not sure what the college/university can do with it being off campus. jmo

And I do not see the connection to that phrase, "rape culture". I don't even get that. And don't need or want it explained, cause that is not explainable to me.

 

[human]

That talk should have been had months before dropping your daughter off at college. I can't imagine sending my daughter to school and not having warned her about frats, date rape, sexual assault, and binge drinking.

The signs are indicative of a much larger problem on campuses. Not as offensive as the "Yes means no, no means ...." chant, but still part of the big picture.

The state of Virginia had lots of Ashley Madison customers. These guys are just more in the open.

 

[ebonydarkness]

I don't believe in rape culture at all. The definition of rape in the west has expanded so much through radical third wave feminism and affirmative consent laws that it barely means anything anymore. Some college women think consent can be withdrawn retroactively and that regretful sex means rape, and innocent men are being punished without due process. Young people should learn to avoid alcohol or drink responsibly to avoid situations where they can be taken advantage of by other students, and that saying no is perfectly fine. Spreading debunked statistics like "1 in 5 women are raped" to induce misplaced panic will not help. There have been pro-rape freshman chants at universities like UBC and Saint Mary's in Canada that are truly disgusting compared to these banners.

 

[bluesneakers]

I don't believe in rape culture at all. The definition of rape in the west has expanded so much through radical third wave feminism and affirmative consent laws that it barely means anything anymore. Some college women think consent can be withdrawn retroactively and that regretful sex means rape, and innocent men are being punished without due process. Young people should learn to avoid alcohol or drink responsibly to avoid situations where they can be taken advantage of by other students, and that saying no is perfectly fine. Spreading debunked statistics like "1 in 5 women are raped" to induce misplaced panic will not help. There have been pro-rape freshman chants at universities like UBC and Saint Mary's in Canada that are truly disgusting compared to these banners.

For someone who doesn't believe in rape culture I believe you have provided an excellent example of how and why it exists. JMO.

 

[ebonydarkness]

Rape is a crime in the West. In certain countries in the Middle East, women can be stoned to death for being raped. Now that's rape culture.

 

[BlueShoe]

Rape is a crime in the West. In certain countries in the Middle East, women can be stoned to death for being raped. Now that's rape culture.

What an odd comment. Are you saying that women who are raped in the West have it good because they are not stoned to death? I don't think I understood your point.

 

[Fairy1]

I remember all too well, while moving my then 18-year-old daughter into her dorm 800 miles away from home, some local boys driving by yelling, "fresh meat!" Can't tell you how close I came to pushing her a$$ back into the car and saying, "Sorry, but no. Just...no."

 

[BlueShoe]

I doubt that these women above are actual victims. That doesn't mean that actual victims don't exist. Did these women ever say that they were victims? Do you think that actual victims do not exist?
These women prove what?

 

[Montjoy]

Sort of OT -- but while I'm loathe to defend frats, and while I will never defend any of their excesses, misogyny, hazing, etc., I am uncomfortable painting all members with the same brush (not that anyone is doing so here). I did my PhD at Northwestern, where about 30% of undergrads belong to a frat/sorority. I was teaching an undergrad class, and we had a discussion about frats. I was rather surprised to see the students who belonged to them. Moreover, a lot of them said that they pledged primarily because their frats provided a lower-cost housing opportunity than the campus residences or flats in town (Evanston is a notoriously expensive place to live). Some said that they had few frat parties, some said they had them, but they were dry and/or 'lame'. Some had some pride for their frats for things they did for the local and university community -- like offering free safe walk/drive programs, youth sports coaching assistance, etc. Some, of course, validated a lot of the negative generalizations that many of us hold about frats, too.

At any rate, I think that there's considerable variety in the morality of fraternities and their members -- at least in the US. In Canada, my experience with them was almost completely negative.

 

[tangelo]

I doubt that these women above are actual victims. That doesn't mean that actual victims don't exist. Did these women ever say that they were victims? Do you think that actual victims do not exist?
These women prove what?

actual victims of the other banners?
any girl who could be victimized by seeing those banners shouldnt be attending college. they should live in their father's house until they move into their husband's.

 

[fred&edna]

Tasteless promotion of promiscuity.

"Signs" of the times.

I actually laughed a bit when I read the "PS".

 

[flourish]

It's all poor taste, IMO.
Not that college kids, male and female, are known for their highly-tuned powers of discernment.
I believe there's behaviors and attitudes which are conducive to or promote or encourage an environment where disrespect towards a particular population occurs.

While I find the banners offensive and gross, I don't necessarily agree that they are promoting rape, just lots of free lovin'. They say there's a time and place for everything, and that place is college.

As for the argument, or insinuation, that since this was a PRIVATE residence, then the college can't touch them, I call shenanigans. Most universities have codes of conduct, and lots of those schools specify that students are expected to act in accordance with the code of conduct regardless of location. I expect fraternities may have something similar, as well as partnerships with the schools. It's not like the frats and universities are separate entities.

Finally, I asked Mr flourish how he would likely react if he saw those banners on his way taking his daughter to college. He said teachable moment. One would hope parents would take advantage of the opportunity. Of course, he also said he would ask daughter what she thought of the banners, and if she said anything like, "oh! My homie Josh is pledging that frat!" he'd turn the car around. Lol.


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[Fairy1]

The targets of those signs aren't "victims" of anything other than females being reduced to sexual objects. Toys for boys. That really isn't the label you want your teenaged daughter to identify as when beginning their career in higher education. JMO.

 

[flourish]

The targets of those signs aren't "victims" of anything other than females being reduced to sexual objects. Toys for boys. That really isn't the label you want your teenaged daughter to identify as when beginning their career in higher education. JMO.

The sexism goes both ways, as seen in the girl banners.

Have I mentioned how happy I am there wasn't much of an Internet when I was that age?


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[Fairy1]

The sexism goes both ways, as seen in the girl banners.

Have I mentioned how happy I am there wasn't much of an Internet when I was that age?


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Nah - don't think so. It's 100% different. Venus and Mars. The age old story. And, really, what does the internet have to do with anything? It may take tattling and abuse to another level, but it doesn't really change anything. So these things can be filmed now - doesn't mean all this crap hasn't been going on forever.

 

[bluesneakers]

The sexism goes both ways, as seen in the girl banners.

Have I mentioned how happy I am there wasn't much of an Internet when I was that age?


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Young women can be crass and rude, and harass young men too, but their history is different. They don't have the same power and they don't have the system to back them up the way young men have. The signs may be the same (and reactions might be all over the place) but the meaning and power is different.