VA - Freshman daughter, mom 'good time drop off' outrages VA university

[Montjoy]

Super disturbing thread. I can't believe that I'm reading so many posts that seem to deny or make exceptions about how 'no means no' in 2015.

 

[katydid23]

And boom there it is.


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Like I said, I am stubborn about the subject because of the horrible experience we had with our good friend.

 

[Kakidoll]

If you are ready to go to college and be the 'young adult' out on their own... then you are responsible for your own actions.
None of this is new behavior. I see it as this generation does not take responsibility for ANYTHING. Its always 'someone else's' fault. Kids today are spoiled, entitled, and want instant gratification... and if something goes wrong..... blame someone else, they were targeted or picked on.... whatever 'political correctness' term with get them out of their situation. ANd yes, i have a daughter that just graduated from College. She is smart, independent and still trusting at the same time. She got her heart broken, just like all girls whether it was in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s... or so on.
I am just SOO tired of people making excuses for EVERYTHING nowadays. I think its time to toughen up are kids and quit the coddling. SPECIAL TREATMENT just because you WANT it is NOT what they need.

Yes, Regret sex is common in college. It used to be the time for young adults to explore their sexuality and spread their wings... unfortunately most are now doing it a whole lot younger... even middle school. Rape is Rape and No means No. But don't play games you aren't equipped to deal with. Teach RESPONSIBILITY and a majority of these 'date rapes' would not be happening.

SO over all the finger pointing... Yes, guys are hormone driven, alcohol lowers inhibition. I remember being in a situation in HS that started to get out of control. I said NO... he kept going.... he was much bigger than I was and on top of me in a car.... I bit his tongue so hard he immediately backed off and i opened the door and pushed him out. Got an apology 10 years later at a reunion.

 

[katydid23]

Super disturbing thread. I can't believe that I'm reading so many posts that seem to deny or make exceptions about how 'no means no' in 2015.

I am not saying that no doesnt mean no. I am just saying that it is sometimes unfair to males when they are falsely accused--which does happen.

 

[flourish]

Date rapes? Quite a few are mixed signal, miscommunication types. I don't know the percentage. But many are 'regret' type of situations. JMO

Source for "quite a few" and how it was determined what was regret or not.


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[flourish]

Where did I ever say it was OK to have sex with an unconscious person?

Perhaps not in those specific words


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[katydid23]

Wow, did you never make out without having sex? It's fun, and reasonable to expect in a relationship, even if you have been married for years. Is there some epidemic of drunk girls crawling into bed with a drunk guy then leaving him with blue ba!!$? And if so, even if it's a premeditated, purely on purpose "teasing," even if the girls had a freaking online group whose sole purpose was "tease and pass out," (NOT REAl, just making a point), IT IS NOT OKAY TO HAVE SEX WITH AN UNCONSCIOUS PERSON. No matter how horny you may be!!!


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I am not talking about people in a relationship. I doubt many women in a relationship are accusing their partner of rape. I am talking specifically about a post that I was replying to. That post said that if a girl gets drunk with a guy, has some sexual interaction with him, wants to spend the night and not have sex, and he continues, then it is rape. And I am saying that it puts them both in a bad position in terms of rape accusations. I learned that from a horrible experience.

 

[katydid23]

Source for "quite a few" and how it was determined what was regret or not.


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I googled and saw a lot of sites for different statistics. But most seem to be blogs so cant cite them.

Look, I am a rape survivor. I am not the enemy. But I want some type of balance. I feel like we are putting all of it on the boys nowadays and telling our girls they can get drunk and naked, climb in a strange boys bed, snuggle up and if he touches you it is his nasty fault. It just feel it is unfair not to give the girls some accountability. JMO

 

[flourish]

No one implied or said girls shouldn't hold responsibility for her actions, but getting raped isn't HER actions.


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[Fairy1]

My daughter graduated from a school with a reputation for being a party school, where a young man in a frat died from binge drinking. I worried about her safety often. And yes, I would absolutely be troubled by these banners. I would be angry as well.

I'm just confused about why you thought I might be okay with the signs. I don't think I've said anything implying I would be. My first comment to the thread was something about please let's just get rid of frats, I discussed rape culture and posted links about what's wrong with frats, I made comments about the power behind when men are sexist vs. when women are sexist.

Did I say something in particular that led you to believe I didn't have a problem with the banners?

I apologize if it seemed I was taking my frustration out on you. That was not my intention at all and, yes, you have made your position (and mine) more than clear.

 

[Fairy1]

IMO - these rogue frat boys have booze-fueled parties specifically to get young girls drunk so they'll make mistakes. To me, that's pretty clear with the banners that made the news here. We're not talking about young women who falsely accuse guys of rape after the fact. We're talking about young men specifically and purposely setting up young women so they can take advantage of them. When people - all people - are really drunk, they make bad decisions and do stupid things. We all know that.

 

[Donjeta]

Where did I ever say it was OK to have sex with an unconscious person?

You did say you wouldn't be able to call it rape if the girl got drunk with the guy and did something consensual with him first...?

 

[Fairy1]

I am shocked, really, as to how anyone can interpret those banners as a joke. Not one bit funny, IMO.

 

[giagreen]

I'd be pretty upset if I had payed for my daughter or son to go to this school and this is what we pull up to. Such disrespect. Just sick. And I'm pretty laid back but this is just so stupid it needs to be called out.

 

[flourish]

Like I said, I am stubborn about the subject because of the horrible experience we had with our good friend.

Your friend's experience is not the rule, but an unfortunate exception. It was my first day of a new job today so I'm tired and not going to go track down a peer reviewed journal article...or even a blog so this is all JMO.

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[katydid23]

You did say you wouldn't be able to call it rape if the girl got drunk with the guy and did something consensual with him first...?

well, I shouldn't have said it like that because it is not what I was trying to say. I was trying to say it muddles the issue if a girl goes to a guys room, drinks with him, climbs into his bed, has sexual foreplay, and then says NO. I know that technically it is rape, but it sets up a situation where it is difficult to know what really happened because both parties are going to say the opposite things. It is not going to be cut and dry that anyone know what really happened. Which is why I would warn girls not to do that unless it was someone she was in a trusting relationship with. JMO

 

[Donjeta]

well, I shouldn't have said it like that because it is not what I was trying to say. I was trying to say it muddles the issue if a girl goes to a guys room, drinks with him, climbs into his bed, has sexual foreplay, and then says NO. I know that technically it is rape, but it sets up a situation where it is difficult to know what really happened because both parties are going to say the opposite things. It is not going to be cut and dry that anyone know what really happened. Which is why I would warn girls not to do that unless it was someone she was in a trusting relationship with. JMO

Yeah true...

But I think the (alleged) victim and the (alleged) perp are going to say the opposite things in most (alleged) rapes, no matter what the place and the circumstances and who agreed to do what first. It's hardly ever a crime that is simple to prove based on what the participants say, unless there's CCTV, physical injuries, DNA evidence, independent witnesses... etc. JMO.

Just because it's hard to prove doesn't mean it's not rape.

 

[BritsKate]

I am not talking about people in a relationship. I doubt many women in a relationship are accusing their partner of rape. I am talking specifically about a post that I was replying to. That post said that if a girl gets drunk with a guy, has some sexual interaction with him, wants to spend the night and not have sex, and he continues, then it is rape. And I am saying that it puts them both in a bad position in terms of rape accusations. I learned that from a horrible experience.

Actually 2/3rds of victims aged 18-29 had a prior relationship with their rapist. 34% of women surveyed in just one research study state they have been victims of sexual coercion by their intimate partners or husbands. It's especially prevalent in abusive relationships because as we should know, rape is about power and control, not sex.

But back to the drunk girl on campus scenario:

Sexual assault is usually a misunderstanding.

One familiar story of campus sexual assault goes like this: A young woman and a young man are at a party. They both have too much to drink and wind up going home together. They have sex — maybe she said no, or maybe not, but in any case, she regrets it the next day and feels like she was assaulted. But he didn't mean it; it was all just a terrible miscommunication, and now the case is simply he said-she said.

In fact, research shows that 90 percent of campus rapists are repeat offenders, averaging nearly six victims apiece, and they often go undetected. Men and women both understand social cues, including nonverbal indications that someone doesn't want to have sex. Acquaintance rapists — the kind who are likely to be targeting fellow students on campus — have a very specific MO. Those predatory men intentionally target women they perceive as vulnerable, and they often ply them with alcohol, sometimes until their victims pass out, and then they sexually assault them. They rely on the misconception that sexual assault is a miscommunication, a misunderstanding, a drunken mistake. And they rely on the fallacy that drunk girls are kinda-sorta asking for it. Because so many people believe these misconceptions, rapists get away with their crimes and seek out other victims. It's the exact opposite of a misunderstanding — it's a series of calculated decisions.

17 Beliefs About Sexual Assault That Are Totally Wrong
National Institute of Justice Statistics

 

[TorisMom003]

well, I shouldn't have said it like that because it is not what I was trying to say. I was trying to say it muddles the issue if a girl goes to a guys room, drinks with him, climbs into his bed, has sexual foreplay, and then says NO. I know that technically it is rape, but it sets up a situation where it is difficult to know what really happened because both parties are going to say the opposite things. It is not going to be cut and dry that anyone know what really happened. Which is why I would warn girls not to do that unless it was someone she was in a trusting relationship with. JMO

And I would take that a step further and warn the guys to not continue on when a girl has said no or is to drunk to consent. The guys don't get a free pass because the girl made out with him and then realized it would be a mistake to actually have sex. There are few cut and dry rape cases because it always turns into a he said she said situation. Both people are responsible for their actions. When a girl/woman says no, the guy/man needs to stop immediately.

MOO

 

[RANCH]

And I would take that a step further and warn the guys to not continue on when a girl has said no or is to drunk to consent. The guys don't get a free pass because the girl made out with him and then realized it would be a mistake to actually have sex. There are few cut and dry rape cases because it always turns into a he said she said situation. Both people are responsible for their actions. When a girl/woman says no, the guy/man needs to stop immediately.

MOO

BBM

What if the guy is too drunk to understand that the girl is too drunk to give a valid consent? Would he still be a rapist? Or are both individuals equally responsible for what happens?

I had a situation years ago where a girl asked me to have sex with her but she was so hammered I said no. If I had been equally drunk and we had sex, would I have been a rapist?

JMO