VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #1

[Skigirl]

I think I have a theory about why people are assumings sorority involvement. Someone above in the topic used the term "sorority house party." Chief Longo mentioned house parties several times, but that is not necessarily a fraternity house or a sorority house. Most upper-class students at UVA live off-campus and many of them live in houses, 5 or 6 or 10 to a house, depending on size. Knowing the area, it could EASILY have been either Greek housing or just someone's house.

FWIW, I only mentioned sororities and fraternities because at my school, there were almost two centers of gravity in the town -- frat/sorority row (where there were also other types of student housing and a little business neighborhood) and "downtown" which was at least a 25-minute walk and was mostly frequented by "real grown-ups" and students who were over 21. I very highly doubt that her disappearance had anything to do with Greek life in particular. I'm just not very familiar with how students live in Charlottesville. JMO.

 

[gnomony]

...resistentialism aka the seemingly spiteful behavior of inanimate objects towards humans...

Stealing this.

 

[Claudia]

Wasn't the gas station video of her running after the pub video? I sense fear or at least some level of emotion when she is running by the gas station.

The gas station is after the pub and before the sighting at the mall.

ETA... I don't see fear in the Shell video. It almost looks like she's just jogging along to me. Of course, I am watching these videos on my phone...

 

[Skigirl]

If I was lost at 2AM and alone I would be totally freaking out! When I saw her running, I thought of myself at that age. I can imagine being kind of intoxicated and thinking it's no big deal to walk, it's not that late, it's a college town, there are people around etc etc... and then you start to pass areas that are pretty abandoned and creepy and it clicks in your brain that this is probably not the best idea. At that point I'd probably start running.

Well, that's a good point. I would have been freaking out in that area around the gas station, too, after dark.

 

[Aeronomy]

Wasn't the gas station video of her running after the pub video? I sense fear or at least some level of emotion when she is running by the gas station.

You could be right with the fear aspect, and I appreciate everyone's theories. The reasons I don't see fear are...
1- The video shows her slowing to walk just before she goes out of view of the gas station camera and
2- If she were so fearful that she was running, it seems a scared 18-year-old female would make a beeline to the gas station


I am trying to come up with possible reasons for running... is there a bus stop of some sort near the gas station, one in which she could see that she could have been running to get to before the bus/shuttle pulled away?

 

[2Hope4]

Double posted, see next post.

 

[2Hope4]

I think they have that FBI data on the phone, and the ping indicates she was not in the area she thought she was in during that text. Of course she might not have sent it either. Or was confused since she was lost, saw a landmark maybe the parking garage, and thought she was in the right area. I'm of the belief at this point, that she did not have possession of the phone at that last text. But then I think, without that text, how long before someone would have looked for her? Even with the text, look how long before a missing person report was filed. Wonder what the friend that received that text did? Were they drunk/drugged themself and therefore couldn't help her? Or did they go try to find her to help? Did they call the police when her phone didn't work, or just figure since she was close she would be home soon?

As a side note, I've always told my kids if in trouble, call 911 or us (the parents) that friends are NOT reliable if there's drinking/drugs involved, that may impair their thinking. No matter what the reason, CALL US, and we'll come, no matter what time of day or night. I've demonstrated to them numerous times how one split second decision can change the whole course of the next domino effect of events. A simple innocent decision can quickly become one of total chaos. You know like a flirt with someone, and their intoxicated mate is there...yeah...can turn bad and quickly. Thank goodness that so far my son has listened, and yes I've picked him up before. I'd rather do that, and risk the other consequences. He also will NOT drive, even if only half a beer. No way, and will only drink if at home. I live about a mile from him. Have called him to come over for supper, or homemade cake, salsa, etc., and he'll say "Can't Mom, just had something to drink." He's of legal age to drink, so I then take him whatever it was. Better safe than sorry. And sorry, but I'm a prude about drinking. I know alcoholism runs in both my side and my husband's side of the family. My kids know this. But I will not hammer that into them. They know. If it's outta of hand, or lives at risk, then yes, I'm saying something. And yes, both kids think I don't know what twitter is, etc. I follow both their twitter pages. What they post on FB and what's on twitter doesn't match. But I want to be aware. I can't stop all their actions, and many they will make mistakes, and hopefully live to learn from them. But I can be aware.

This case, MH, and so many others like it with young college students is one of the reasons I encourage both kids to attend community colleges first, while still living at home, and then transferring to college when they are a bit more mature, and more focused on goals. The temptations are just much to high for brains that aren't fully developed. I won't hold them back from their goals, but help them achieve them in a different manner. Even a year of community college can make a difference in maturity levels. They won't be perfect, they will make mistakes, but all I can do is arm them the best I can!

We can't "Save the next girl" if we don't acknowledge the events that led up to the disappearance. You have to see the domino effect from one decision to the next, and how that effected the next move. Until we point out each decision, and discuss it with our kids, then I don't see how you can 'Save the Next Girl' or really guy either because we sure have had our share of young college guys that have disappeared, wrecked a vehicle and never seen again, or were drinking and ended up drowning! ALL must be talked about. That is NOT blaming the victim either!!! That is problem solving!!!

JMO

 

[Skigirl]

You could be right with the fear aspect, and I appreciate everyone's theories. The reasons I don't see fear are...
1- The video shows her slowing to walk just before you goes out of view of the gas station camera and
2- If she were so fearful that she was running, it seems a scared 18-year-old female would make a beeline to the gas station


I am trying to come up with possible reasons for running... is there a bus stop of some sort near the gas station, one in which she could see that she could have been running to get to before the bus/shuttle pulled away?

Maybe it was for the reason given at the press conference -- that there are homeless people on the hill near the bridge she was walking under and she picked up her pace temporarily because she got a little anxious, but then got past that area and felt safer?

 

[carbuff]

She looks distraught to me. Maybe not frantic, but like she's urgently looking for something or someone.

 

[Biggles]

I'm just wondering. If she was lost, just lost and a bit drunk, she has passed a pub, a 24 hour gas station, the pubs and clubs in the mall, various people out enjoying their evenings. Why has she not asked anyone for help? ... It just strikes me as odd that she's wandering around town with no real purpose of where she's going.

That's alcohol for you. If the reports are to be believed, she was more than "a bit drunk". (And I don't say that to disparage her; lord knows my college days saw way, waaay too much alcohol consumption.)

But I'd wager that she *did* have a purpose, even if it seems incomprehensible at this time. Once a person's BAC climbs past a certain level (which is different for each person) judgment and reasoning is affected. At that late hour, after a night spent drinking, I'd wager Hannah was thinking something along the lines of "I need to get home" and "if I keep going this way, I will reach X, and then I know where I am." Her text message(s) suggest that she was aware that her plan was not working, but her impairment was sufficient to prevent her from doing the rational thing (asking at a business for help/calling a taxi) and instead she apparently pressed on. (side note: this is the big problem with "binge drinking" - your liver cannot remove alcohol from your bloodstream fast enough, and you become progressively intoxicated long after your last drink.) Her running behavior may simply be an expression of her frustration ("this is taking so long!" or "I can't believe I'm not there yet.") All we can hope for at this point is that she is injured somewhere and unable to extricate herself or call for help, but will still be found alive.

 

[Dixie811]

The thing is, from what we know about her path, the path she took isn't really one of someone who is lost. Essentially making a circle around the pub was weird. But if you look at where she started, the general path she took, and where she ended up it is pretty solid in one direction (East), no?

I have a terrible sense of direction, but I know for me personally when I am lost I wouldn't just keep traveling in the same direction endlessly. You'd think there would be more of a pattern of walking in circles/squares, changing directions repeatedly, etc (to try to find something that looked familiar and would orient me.

I haven't gotten the feeling that she was planning to meet someone, but I do think her path is interesting for someone who was apparently drunk and lost.

 

[necco]

I know people have talked about how Charlottesville has some sketchy areas, but are they sketchy compared to the rest of the world or just sketchy for Charlottesville?

When I went away to college, I was told how horrible the city I was in was and how sketchy it was. And it was sketchy, compared to where the people who were telling me about it were from, but as I had grown up a town over from a city that had horrific murder rates at that time, I figured out after a month or so that it was only dangerous if you grew up someplace where at least 2 of your neighbors owned cows. These same people were confused by a bus schedule. They had a totally different frame of reference than I did.

Hannah grew up in suburban Washington DC. I assume, since her parents are British, she went home to the UK to places like London. Her definition of "sketchy" would likely be different than some kid who grew up in Natural Bridge, VA or New Market, VA. She would likely be less disconcerted by city things like homeless people or dark underpasses.

 

[jef3r]

Been lurking all day trying to keep up with all of your posts. Am new to board and was awaiting registration to be approved.

I went to UVA in the late 90's. That "shady Grady" area someone referred to in a previous post is dead on. I've accidentally crossed over 14th street before in that area (coming from the Rugby road area and trying to find someone's house) and as soon as I passed over 14th, I was in the ghetto. People sitting on porches shouting profanities at us, shady deals going on through car windows, etc. I was with a friend fortunately (I NEVER went out alone when I'd been drinking...my friend and I had a pact that we ALWAYS left parties together) and we immediately turned around and hightailed it out of there when we realized what a crap area it was.

I rarely went to the Downtown mall and can't remember very well how safe the area is (plus, so much has changed down there now...it's been 15 years since I went there).

As someone who has been drunk many a time before, I don't find her behavior all that unusual at all. I remember once I was at a bar on the corner with my friends and decided that I just HAD TO HAVE A HAIR TIE because I was so hot and wanted my hair up in a ponytail. So I left the bar. Told no one. And walk/ran home to get a hair tie. LOL! I have a very distinct memory of that to this day b/c at the time I remember thinking as I passed the lawn "what the hell am I doing? Why am I going home for a hair tie?" So I half walked half jogged so that I could hurry up and get back to the bar. When I returned, I thought I'd been gone like...10 minutes but my friends were all "WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?!" So stupid. So so stupid. I had no sense of time and thought I'd be back before anyone even noticed I was gone. Fortunately for me my walk was pretty much confined to the grounds so I was relatively safe.

So, honestly, I just see a drunk girl who has no sense of time and whose poor decisions probably made all the sense in the world to her. When you're that drunk, much like me going home to get a hair tie, it doesn't even register as weird on your radar when you decide you're going to walk a mile/mile and a half to the downtown mall. In her inebriated state, she probably thought it was a perfectly normal thing to do. She may have realized when she got there there was nothing going on (not realize how late it was) so she turned around to head home. At that point, either something shady happened (that's what I'm placing bets on) or she got into some sort of accident.

Any which way...I feel like people are reading too much into some of this stuff and are coming up with some pretty far fetched theories. I believe the simplest solution is usually the right one.

That being said, I don't know much about any of the other murders/disappearances that are being referenced in these threads but that sex offender who has recently been sighted and who could be in the area? Uh, yeah...that's a pretty big coincidence. Hope the police have followed up on that.

 

[DocBrew]

Interesting...these tweets were taken down. Either it was a mistaken tweet or a premature tweet, based on information given to him by his source that shouldn't have been given to him.

Yes, yes, yes, double yes. I concur. I think we're going to hear this confirmed in the coming hours/days.

 

[Just K]

Wasn't the gas station video of her running after the pub video? I sense fear or at least some level of emotion when she is running by the gas station.

I can't tell for sure but it almost looks like she was flailing her arms. Anyone else see that?

 

[Justice101]

This is my best guess of Hannah's path.

Less than 2-1/4 miles

 

[jef3r]

I know people have talked about how Charlottesville has some sketchy areas, but are they sketchy compared to the rest of the world or just sketchy for Charlottesville?

When I went away to college, I was told how horrible the city I was in was and how sketchy it was. And it was sketchy, compared to where the people who were telling me about it were from, but as I had grown up a town over from a city that had horrific murder rates at that time, I figured out after a month or so that it was only dangerous if you grew up someplace where at least 2 of your neighbors owned cows. These same people were confused by a bus schedule. They had a totally different frame of reference than I did.

Hannah grew up in suburban Washington DC. I assume, since her parents are British, she went home to the UK to places like London. Her definition of "sketchy" would likely be different than some kid who grew up in Natural Bridge, VA or New Market, VA. She would likely be less disconcerted by city things like homeless people or dark underpasses.

Excellent point. I grew up in the suburbs of DC right near where Hannah went to high school. Just spent the last 15 years teaching at a middle school right down the street from where Hannah went to high school. I went to UVA. I know ghetto. I know shady ****. That 14th street area has some shaaaady **** (as I detailed in my experience in my previous post). Heck when I was student teaching in Charlottesville I took the public bus to one of the schools I taught at and was frequently honked at and approached by random sketchy men trying to hit on me. They were like 40 years old and aggressive. It was freaky.

I've also wandered through Cabrini Green accidentally in Chicago (my friend who lives there was clearly directionally impaired and stupidly led us through the area). We had rocks thrown at us and were yelled at and harassed. I felt just as unsafe there on Grady as I did walking through Cabrini Green that day. I'll never forget the sound of mine and my friend's heels as we increased our pace to get out of there and away from the harassment.

I've felt safer in most parts of DC than I have in some of those areas.

 

[kathryann]

Does anyone think that she would willingly go with someone if they offered her help? I'm thinking more that she is a very tall girl, for someone to just grab her off the street seems unlikely to me. Alcohol impairs a persons judgement, and maybe she just trusted the wrong person. Sociopaths are very convincing.

 

[blefuscu]

I honestly found it difficult to see Hannah in the gas station video and it took several times of really watching it to see her running along the top. For me it's too grainy to make out much. She looks like a ghost or a shadow moving quickly and then just slowing down before the end.

 

[Dixie811]

When Hannah approaches the pub, and as she is making her first walk past it, does anyone else see how she appears to have one hand on her hip? To me, it looks like she could be reaching for her phone in her back pocket. Anyone agree?

ETA: Also, I thought I saw a flash after Hannah walked by the pub on her second pass. I think it actually happens after she has just passed the building. I saw a flash and at first thought it could be a glare from a patron's phone screen, but I wonder if someone was taking a picture. Now, I don't think Hannah would have been in the patron's picture, but heck maybe it would be helpful just for seeing who was in the pub that night around the time she walked past. Usually when someone has their camera out they take more than one picture. Could be useful. IF that is what I saw.