VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #1

[2Hope4]

You could be right with the fear aspect, and I appreciate everyone's theories. The reasons I don't see fear are...
1- The video shows her slowing to walk just before she goes out of view of the gas station camera and
2- If she were so fearful that she was running, it seems a scared 18-year-old female would make a beeline to the gas station


I am trying to come up with possible reasons for running... is there a bus stop of some sort near the gas station, one in which she could see that she could have been running to get to before the bus/shuttle pulled away?

She mentioned going for a run in her twitter account. It's possible she was running to get where she was going faster. Or maybe from a paranoia. What I don't understand, after she left the first party, did she continue to drink at the other party or parties? Or was she just stopping in to say "HI" to friends? If she didn't drink after the first party, wouldn't she have been sobering up as time went on instead of getting more erratic? Unless she tried adderall, or something similar, or was slipped something, maybe then it would worsen as time went on?? The only times I've been drunk, either I was puking to porcelain goddess, or just wanted to sleep. But each person seems to react different to alcohol.

I do have to say, I think whoever was supplying an underage person with alcohol should be held accountable!! Whether it was an individual group having the party, or a public pub. Either way, that's contributing to a minor. I'm not stupid and realize underage drinking at colleges especially is going on, and it seems to a part of the whole college experience. IMO, there needs to be some stiffer actions taking to break up these parties, stop the hazing events, stop the underage access, etc. If you're 21, and want to have a party with others that are 21, then be responsible, and have floor space that everyone can crash there that night. No letting anyone leave alone. Need a taxi/cab? Then have someone call for one. But at no point should anyone, male or female, just leave walking while drunk and alone!!! I don't know what it will take to get this through their heads, but it needs to happen. I sickens me sometimes reading about these young college kids, and how easily available illegal drugs, prescription drugs, and alcohol are. I'm paying for my kids to have a college education to further enrich their lives, so they can provide for themselves, and perhaps later their family. I'm not paying for them to experience drugs!!! If they need medication to deal with the stress, then I'm all for them seeing a doctor and getting what they need, with hopes of counseling as well. I would hope and pray they wouldn't share those meds with ANYONE, nor mix them with alcohol. Yet I realize once out of my reach, out of my control. Please parents, educate your kids on the dangers!!!! Whether they listen or not, have that talk, read them a few cases on here including the outcomes!

Alexis Murphy was the closest to my area, and being the same age as my own daughter, was a great educational time of all the dangers that are out there. Now that she's 18, she'll be applying for her concealed carry. She does have pepper spray, and some self defense classes. We can't protect them 24/7 as we did when they were babies/school age children, but we can arm them with the best we have to offer. And yes, my kids KNOW the mistakes I made in my life, and how easily the outcome could have been much worse! They know the lessons I learned from mistakes, as well as their grandparents made. We're open and honest. Never said I was perfect, never will be.

JMO!!

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

When did she separate from her friends that night and why? Has that been discussed in MSM?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jef3r]

I know people have talked about how Charlottesville has some sketchy areas, but are they sketchy compared to the rest of the world or just sketchy for Charlottesville?

When I went away to college, I was told how horrible the city I was in was and how sketchy it was. And it was sketchy, compared to where the people who were telling me about it were from, but as I had grown up a town over from a city that had horrific murder rates at that time, I figured out after a month or so that it was only dangerous if you grew up someplace where at least 2 of your neighbors owned cows. These same people were confused by a bus schedule. They had a totally different frame of reference than I did.

Hannah grew up in suburban Washington DC. I assume, since her parents are British, she went home to the UK to places like London. Her definition of "sketchy" would likely be different than some kid who grew up in Natural Bridge, VA or New Market, VA. She would likely be less disconcerted by city things like homeless people or dark underpasses.

Excellent point. I grew up in the suburbs of DC right near where Hannah went to high school. Just spent the last 15 years teaching at a middle school right down the street from where Hannah went to high school. I went to UVA. I know ghetto. I know shady. That 14th street area is shaaaady. (as I detailed in my experience in my previous post). Heck when I was student teaching in Charlottesville I took the public bus to one of the schools I taught at and was frequently honked at and approached by random sketchy men trying to hit on me. They were like 40 years old, kind of bummy looking (like dirty, baggy clothes and unkempt) and aggressive. It was creepy.

I've also wandered through Cabrini Green accidentally in Chicago (my friend who lives there was clearly directionally impaired and stupidly led us through the area). We had rocks thrown at us and were yelled at and harassed. I felt just as unsafe there on Grady as I did walking through Cabrini Green that day. I'll never forget the sound of mine and my friend's heels as we increased our pace to get out of there and away from the harassment.

I've felt safer in most parts of DC than I have in some of those areas...probably b/c DC is so much busier and more populated even into the wee hours of the morning. Once it gets late in some of those areas, there's just no one around anymore and the danger possibility increases exponentially.

 

[pannarose]

I agree with most all that has been said. I still can't help but think the text "lost around 14th and Wertland" is odd for a 18 year to text to friends. It seems more like directional a point obtained by someone else but used to alleviate worry to friends to buy time. Especially since the phone was shut off or died immediately after.
I hope I am way off and she is somewhere slightly injured and somewhat disoriented but ok.

 

[2Hope4]

This is my best guess of Hannah's path. *snipped photo*

Less than 2-1/4 miles

All that running around was only 2.5 miles? Looks like she was in a marathon! Instead of intoxicated, her zig zagging here and there looks more like an adrenaline rush, or some other type of 'high' that gave her energy!! Well JMO!!!

 

[Justice101]

Kathryann,
I agree that it would probably be someone not very threatening (often, sadly, a wolf in sheep's clothing). Offer to give her a lift to wherever. Ted Bundy is a perfect example.

 

[CvilleMama]

This is my best guess of Hannah's path.View attachment 59125

From what I've heard on the news, I'm not sure I'm following you. From the time stamps on the videos and the witness at Fellini's, my thoughts are that she probably went towards McGrady's by taking 10th or thereabouts, then turned right/east onto Preston/Grady towards the Shell, and proceeded down Preston until the big intersection with 5th/McIntire, cut across that, and went up to Fellini's where she turned right down to the Downtown Mall.

I don't think there's been any evidence that she walked down West Main, has there?

 

[Yoda]

Excellent point. I grew up in the suburbs of DC right near where Hannah went to high school. Just spent the last 15 years teaching at a middle school right down the street from where Hannah went to high school. I went to UVA. I know ghetto. I know shady. That 14th street area is shaaaady. (as I detailed in my experience in my previous post). Heck when I was student teaching in Charlottesville I took the public bus to one of the schools I taught at and was frequently honked at and approached by random sketchy men trying to hit on me. They were like 40 years old, kind of bummy looking (like dirty, baggy clothes and unkempt) and aggressive. It was creepy.

I've also wandered through Cabrini Green accidentally in Chicago (my friend who lives there was clearly directionally impaired and stupidly led us through the area). We had rocks thrown at us and were yelled at and harassed. I felt just as unsafe there on Grady as I did walking through Cabrini Green that day. I'll never forget the sound of mine and my friend's heels as we increased our pace to get out of there and away from the harassment.

I've felt safer in most parts of DC than I have in some of those areas...probably b/c DC is so much busier and more populated even into the wee hours of the morning. Once it gets late in some of those areas, there's just no one around anymore and the danger possibility increases exponentially.

:welcome:

 

[necco]

Excellent point. I grew up in the suburbs of DC right near where Hannah went to high school. Just spent the last 15 years teaching at a middle school right down the street from where Hannah went to high school. I went to UVA. I know ghetto. I know shady. That 14th street area is shaaaady. (as I detailed in my experience in my previous post). Heck when I was student teaching in Charlottesville I took the public bus to one of the schools I taught at and was frequently honked at and approached by random sketchy men trying to hit on me. They were like 40 years old, kind of bummy looking (like dirty, baggy clothes and unkempt) and aggressive. It was creepy.

I've also wandered through Cabrini Green accidentally in Chicago (my friend who lives there was clearly directionally impaired and stupidly led us through the area). We had rocks thrown at us and were yelled at and harassed. I felt just as unsafe there on Grady as I did walking through Cabrini Green that day. I'll never forget the sound of mine and my friend's heels as we increased our pace to get out of there and away from the harassment.

I've felt safer in most parts of DC than I have in some of those areas...probably b/c DC is so much busier and more populated even into the wee hours of the morning. Once it gets late in some of those areas, there's just no one around anymore and the danger possibility increases exponentially.

Thanks for the information. That totally answers my questions and helps me understand the scene in C-ville better.

 

[momrids6]

Someone mentioned about the possibility of her running around having to do with a sorority. I think that's a very good possibility. I don't know if rush week lasts one or two weeks at UVA, but it began September 1st. If she received a bid during rush, then the timing seems to fit well with initiations. JMO

I did. It seems like some type of scavenger hunt .

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo I would be willing to bet all of these college girls have had it drilled into their heads to stay in groups or pairs and probably swear to their parents they would never walk alone at night or let their friends do so either...yet so many do.

 

[Justice101]

Kathryann,
I agree that it would probably be someone not very threatening (often, sadly, a wolf in sheep's clothing). Offer to give her a lift to wherever. Ted Bundy is a perfect example.

When I walk fast..it's at about a 16 minute mile. When I run it's at a pace of about 10 minutes per mile. Hannah would have only had to have averaged 17 minute miles to do that distance in the reported times. 12:45 at Grady's..... 1:20 at 14th and Wertland.. that's 35 minutes to go 2.25 miles. So, it is very possible for her to cover that whole circular path.

 

[ALH86]

From what I've heard on the news, I'm not sure I'm following you. From the time stamps on the videos and the witness at Fellini's, my thoughts are that she probably went towards McGrady's by taking 10th or thereabouts, then turned right/east onto Preston/Grady towards the Shell, and proceeded down Preston until the big intersection with 5th/McIntire, cut across that, and went up to Fellini's where she turned right down to the Downtown Mall.

I don't think there's been any evidence that she walked down West Main, has there?

I think that map is just a theory at the moment and is just going along with the text msg. that was sent at 1:20 saying she was lost around 14th street if the message went out at the correct time she would have either had to of retrace her steps OR possibly made this big circle that got her back around in that general area but as of now there is no evidence that she was on West Main.

 

[2Hope4]

I agree with most all that has been said. I still can't help but think the text "lost around 14th and Wertland" is odd for a 18 year to text to friends. It seems more like directional a point obtained by someone else but used to alleviate worry to friends to buy time. Especially since the phone was shut off or died immediately after.
I hope I am way off and she is somewhere slightly injured and somewhat disoriented but ok.

Yeah, and the only reason I see someone else sending that text was Hannah was suppose to be somewhere else, and whoever was with her knew that. Or perhaps Hanna said "so and so will be here soon, because I'm suppose to meet them at xyz" something like that. So if it was answer to a text from someone saying "hey, where are you?" Then "IF" there is perp, they felt not answering would signal something was wrong, but thought answering would bide them time.

Anyone else got ideas on why someone would have sent the text? Especially that time of the morning, if it wasn't in response to a text received? My thinking is that if that text hadn't been sent, then the person it was sent to would have figured she had went back to the apartment, or ran into someone she knew and went to a different party, or crashed at someone else's place and we'd see each other later that day.

I'm not sure how the parties are announced or people are invited or know where they are. If there is a instagram, or fb group they talk about, or invite each other or it's just word of mouth. It almost appears that someone knew she was going to a party at the address, but of course I could be completely wrong.

It could be a complete stranger involved if there is a perp. It's a college town. These parties happen frequently and a perp would know that, and know that casing the area would eventually lead to a vulnerable individual.

As eerily as it sounds, I hope the farm MH was found at has been at least gone over by that landowner, if not searchers. What a grand F U that would send if something happened and she ended up in the same area, or near there.

 

[2Hope4]

Ok, I skipped 10 pages of posts, so going back to play catchup!!

 

[Claudette]

I'm only on page 18 right now and we are at 40 so..something is obviously going on with 30 pages in one day. But.

Images of police sketches vs. what the perp actually looked like

Sketches are never exact and should never be considered an exact science.

 

[FlamingoLady]

The short spurt of running in front of the Shell station could be something as simple as she had to pee so she sped up....only to realize that running doesn't contribute to the well-being of the bladder. JMO

 

[Justice101]

There was a tweet from one of the searchers earlier in the day that the bloodhound picked up her scent at the Water Street Parking building which is further down near the railroad tracks. I used this scenario to plot that location which merges right into W Main Street.

 

[Dixie811]

Sorority initiation is not hazing. Initiation is a private ritual. It is very serious and includes ritual garments, sorority advisors, and sometimes alumni.

The ideas being talked about regarding sorority activities are hazing. Yes, even scavenger hunts are considered hazing now. It is taken very seriously by national organizations an in my experience in a sorority not to far from UVA, recruitment and the "new member" time period (the terms "pledge" and "rush" have also been basically banned now because they are associated with hazing) include very little hazing because you could lose your chapter in an instant over even just one girl making a complaint. Does hazing still happen? Of course.

Additionally, I don't remember ever seeing information that Hannah was in a sorority. I think that it was mentioned in one article that Hannah may have been at a sorority party earlier in the night. I don't know if she is even in the sorority or if that whole statement could be reporter error.

LE has been extremely open about what they know in this case. I think if she were involved in activities for a sorority she belonged to that night it would be released. Heck, I think if she was even IN a sorority it would be be released, as they told the public very early on that she was a member of ski club.

JMO

 

[Ashley114]

Thinking about the text... the time... possible that someone was trying to get her to come meet up with them, possibly at a bar that had last call at 1:30. Maybe she was explaining that she wouldn't get somewhere in time due to being lost and being too far away?