VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #10

[Luvrosco]

On Greta van Sustern p, former detective Ted Williams just said that witnesses in JM's apartment complex saw him with a white girl, but she did not match HG's description.

 

[Dushi]

I am a bit confused about the bald guy factoid released earlier. Was it really fake info put out by the police or was that what the WG told the police? In other words, did the WG say she was with a 5'10-6'0" bald black guy?

Thats what we were told, but really... who knows what the witness actually said
I know longer know what to believe

 

[Skigirl]

??? THAT is weird.

Again, I am pages behind so I don't know if it's been asked, but... Have we heard from JM's former girlfriend anywhere? As per the Daily Mail the grandmother said he had a live in girlfriend previously. Also, I have not seen his sister or mom yet - has anybody? It's just getting so bizarre at this point. JM seems to be making some bad decisions. He needs a lawyer like last week now. Does he have one yet and I have missed it? If he has a lawyer they would have been in touch with police or media by now wouldn't they? Just very odd to me. He can't go on like this.

In order:
1) No to former girlfriend
2) Not to my knowledge re: sister or mom
3) I don't think anyone has said JM has a lawyer
4) I think news would be out that he had representation, and his attorney probably would have contacted police to let them know that s/he is representing JM.

 

[pittie_mcclure]

Okay, I'll unload all m'thoughts real quick because I'm having a hard time keeping up! I'd like to start by saying that I am a huge advocates of rights for the accused and based on prior personal experience, I am very wary of police. I don't think you can judge or make assumptions about someone if you don't know their journey or if you've never been in their situation. On top of that, individuals are indeed individuals and they all handle things differently.

There's been so much talk of whether or not JM should speak with police, why or why not, and if so, under what conditions. I mean, I wish he would come forward. I think he should. But I can completely understand why he hasn't. I don't want him to be guilty of anything other than buying a girl a drink. I want him to come forward and clear his name because if he didn't do it but chooses to stays silent for the rest of his life, this is going to haunt him forever and I hate to think of an innocent person going through that. It might just be me, but this dude seems like a nice guy. Just going off my personal vibes. He seems like someone that wouldn't have anything to do with this and I want to believe that. I want him to come forward and say where she went and have a hard rock alibi. I truly believe that if he really knew NOTHING, he would have said something by now, I really do, just because of how friends and family have described him. It's a conflicting picture.

And I don't think police were out of line for confirming his identity or stating they want to speak with him. I know some of y'all don't agree, but I think they've handled the whole situation with him well and trust that they're doing best with what they have and know, including all of the things we don't. JM has a responsibility for himself, so I understand that he is doing what he is doing for himself. And police have a responsibility to the victim and I can understand that they are doing what they are doing for HG. I have a hard time because my whole life I've been guilty of feeling empathy for pretty much everyone, even when I don't want to. Anyone else this way?

Yea. This. To a fault. I think that's where I stand. You said it very well. I may differ a tiny bit on how LE is handling it, but generally you read my mind. (Yikes!)

To me he comes off as somebody who is really scared. Possibly tried cooperating but could tell he was their suspect and freaked. As I've said I want him to tell them all he knows so we can find Hannah but we don't know that he hasn't in fact done just that.

 

[eddy]

Have not heard from anyone besides Grandma, from the daily mail, and I believe his landlord. And we don't know if he has a lawyer yet. He at least consulted with one, but we don't know if he has retained one.

Don't you think that's peculiar?

 

[goldenbear]

Well, I can't keep up
Thread is moving quickly and so many off topic posts

So.. I will just ask

Is there any new NEWS since five PM?

The POI has a pit bull named popcorn that he has taken with him.

 

[Lava]

On Greta van Sustern p, former detective Ted Williams just said that witnesses in JM's apartment complex saw him with a white girl, but she did not match HG's description.

Did they say when?

 

[Lava]

Don't you think that's peculiar?

Which part?

 

[Bella2006]

Than lets look at the time of year we are at. School has just started. What we are maybe 4-5 weeks into it? I have to ask what happened before school started? What happened over the summer? Did she have a boyfriend? Did she do any traveling? Did her parents push her to go back? I would be curious to know more about HG. We do know that she was a good girl, but thats very general. There is sure a lot to people's lives that are never shared.

I am going to take this in a different direction, just to throw everything out there. Say we focus on her behavior from that night. It appears that she has something on her mind. She is drinking heavily and one person has mentioned that she appeared distressed. By looking at the video's it appears that she is on a mission, like she is looking for someone. If she was out to party she would be doing just that, but it seems apparent that she wants very little contact with people based on video observation. She is by herself and left her friends, who I am sure told her they were going to a party. She chose to be by herself, not stay with them. She chose to walk the routes she did. Seeing that the route she took was the most obvious along main highways and streets, seems odd. She could have easily cut her time and walked a different route. Is it possible she took off? Perhaps she had been planning the day and time to do this for awhile now. Maybe she was nervous, because the person who was suppose to pick her up wasn't showing and she was stressed that it would not fall through. Is it possible she did not want to be in the states? Did she have family pressures she didn't want part of anymore? Just some thoughts.

 

[Dushi]

The POI has a pit bull named popcorn that he has taken with him.

Really?

 

[Claudette]

You know, I wonder if MH's killer's rape victim contacted Cville LE with a positive ID of JM, that would explain why LE is so "determined".

 

[cvillehoo2]

I'd love to know where the rules for a "good christian" in this situation are, since it keeps being brought up. I suppose good Christians don't exercise their rights at all.

That's why I put it in quotes. I guess in a more global sense, taking a specific religion out of the equation, I'm talking about the idea of putting the well-being of others in front of your own needs, having a conscience. I think that to talk to LE without representation would have been foolish but I also feel confident, like others on here have said, that he could have obtained representation (and has before) and in the worst case could have gone to legal aid.

 

[Jmm124567]

I am going to take this in a different direction, just to throw everything out there. Say we focus on her behavior from that night. It appears that she has something on her mind. She is drinking heavily and one person has mentioned that she appeared distressed. By looking at the video's it appears that she is on a mission, like she is looking for someone. If she was out to party she would be doing just that, but it seems apparent that she wants very little contact with people based on video observation. She is by herself and left her friends, who I am sure told her they were going to a party. She chose to be by herself, not stay with them. She chose to walk the routes she did. Seeing that the route she took was the most obvious along main highways and streets, seems odd. She could have easily cut her time and walked a different route. Is it possible she took off? Perhaps she had been planning the day and time to do this for awhile now. Maybe she was nervous, because the person who was suppose to pick her up wasn't showing and she was stressed that it would not fall through. Is it possible she did not want to be in the states? Did she have family pressures she didn't want part of anymore? Just some thoughts.

I doubt that happened. I think she was suppose to meet one or more friends at a bar. I think she was looking for a bar because of her behavior at McGrady's bar and she was mainly walking on main roads if she was looking for a house party she would be on side streets in the residential area. I think JM forced himself onto HG by putting his arm around her and she put on a fake smile and acted friendly to him when deep down she may have felt like he was a creeper.

 

[Lava]

Really?

All we know is that the pitbull is not at the apartment. Who knows, he could have left it with his grandma.

 

[HarvestMoon]

MH's parents coming on Jane to talk about HG!

What happened to the parents?

 

[Dushi]

All we know is that the pitbull is not at the apartment. Who knows, he could have left it with his grandma.

Yes .. well.. Unless he /she is with Hannah I really can't say that i care a whole lot

 

[Lava]

That's why I put it in quotes. I guess in a more global sense, taking a specific religion out of the equation, I'm talking about the idea of putting the well-being of others in front of your own needs, having a conscience. I think that to talk to LE without representation would have been foolish but I also feel confident, like others on here have said, that he could have obtained representation (and has before) and in the worst case could have gone to legal aid.

Knowing what we know about his financial situation, how could he have retained a lawyer? Legal aid? For a case like this?

Several of us here have said we would not talk without a lawyer and if our lawyer told us not to talk, we would not be talking. It may be highly offensive to those of us who have said that, to then read several times that kind of judgement, from several people. We have rights, we get to use them...regardless of what religion we may have.

 

[PresleySyndrome]

What happened to the parents?

Don't understand your question.

 

[Bella2006]

Than lets look at the time of year we are at. School has just started. What we are maybe 4-5 weeks into it? I have to ask what happened before school started? What happened over the summer? Did she have a boyfriend? Did she do any traveling? Did her parents push her to go back? I would be curious to know more about HG. We do know that she was a good girl, but thats very general. There is sure a lot to people's lives that are never shared.

Sorry if this seems off topic to some, but I figured we can at least explore more, while we wait it out for the results of the evidence.

 

[Skigirl]

I just wanna say in reference to people talking about guys in the various videos "staring at HG" etc that as a guy if a hot girl is around especially wearing leggings or something like that I'm going to check her out..that doesn't mean I'm creepy about it or would follow her but I guarantee if a camera was on me you'd see the same thing so that really doesn't mean anything..and I know I speak for 90% of guys when I say that..

I would totally expect people to looking. I just think that the amount of attention by the time she got to Sal's was soooo OVERT (as compared with COVERT ;-)) (e.g., someone ducking into a doorway, feigning interest in his phone and then trailing her intentionally, another guy stopping and turning, crossing a street/courtyard, and catching up) that it didn't look like normal "looking" and since at least one of the two said he was motivated by worry, and it seemed to happen almost at the same moment, it occurs to me that something she was doing was leading people to believe she needed or wanted help or needed protection (or was vulnerable).