VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #16 *ARREST*

[steelman]

A post from the findhannahgraham facebook page, from a bartender who served JM (and witnessed some of his strange behavior). hope this is ok to post!

https://www.facebook.com/FindHannahGraham/posts/716118478458403

Yeah, a FEMALE bartender in which he took an unhealthy interest. It's amazing how all of these folks seem to be coming out of the woodwork now that he is locked up. Nobody was willing to say a word back when he was roaming around loose.

 

[RSC]

"There are plenty of guys out there looking for girls incapable of saying no."
That alone is a predator, IMO, and clearly against the law.

JM did not just happen upon her in a bar. He saw her walking, clearly drunk, and did a 180 to follow and approach her. I believe his "intent" started at the moment he saw her, and is clearly seen in the video.

This is a cautionary tale on so many levels. WTH was Hannah doing wandering around all night by herself? Why did not one of her friends try to help her that night or check in on her the next day? How many people saw this obviously inebriated girl and just ignored her? Did Tempo personnel think to report a coed in need of help?
I'm not sold on the theory that JM set out to rape and murder that night. It also depends on what your definition of a predator is. There are plenty of guys out there looking for girls incapable of saying no. Did he kill her? I don't know. Something happened, and JM knows what it is. Either he killed her or he did not get her help. He is culpable.

 

[cady]

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/09/26/friend-hannah-graham-suspect-hes-innocent

Friend of Hannah Graham suspect claims JM is innocent

MM is a friend of JM not HG. edit Just read your post again, I see what you said......sorry JMO

 

[RSC]

I think they probably talked to LE. I wouldn't have talked to the media, either, until he was behind bars.

Yeah, a FEMALE bartender in which he took an unhealthy interest. It's amazing how all of these folks seem to be coming out of the woodwork now that he is locked up. Nobody was willing to say a word back when he was roaming around loose.

 

[Claudia]

12 years or 20, convicted or just accused, it's no small coincidence.

I do believe something happened between he and Hannah that night, I'm just not sure what (accident or intentional).
I don't think, though, that an accusation of rape (which was dropped by the girl) is evidence enough to say without a doubt he is a serial rapist/murderer. JMO

 

[whiskers]

I wonder if Hannah had recently developed a crush on a guy. Hopefully LE will ask her friends questions like this and exactly what parties were being texted back and forth. I remember after my freshman year I was a lot more comfortable and confident talking to guys. My sophomore year I felt like a completely different person. She went to a dinner/party with some ski team members that evening. Perhaps she had a crush on a cute guy and wanted to meet up later at a party with him. When she arrived to another party she realized he wasn't there. Then maybe a friend texted something like: "I think he went down towards the mall."

No one in this age group really uses a phone. It's all group texts or individual texts. Parties on this campus happen all over the place and a lot of students don't stay very long. Hopping from one party to another. So I wonder if she hoped to meet up with someone eventually. From her twitter feed I got the impression she liked guys her age who were fit and sporty.

 

[KimberlinaB]

I might get crap for saying this, but to me LJ isn't a bad looking guy. Peoples are acting like he would have a hard time picking up a woman. I agree his behavior seemed overly friendly, but I've known many people like that. I'm a very introverted person, so extreme extroverts make me uncomfortable. I do not think that it is out of the realm of possibility that she found him attractive and went for a drink willingly.

And to be honest, it seems the most likely she got into his car willingly as well, although very intoxicated.

I was just thinking that, on a college campus, often times larger black men with dreads are on the football team. Not trying to stereotype, but honestly when I went to school and saw a very large, built black man it was assumed that he played football (and most of the time that was accurate). Football players are really looked upon highly, and many girls like to hang out with them. Is it possible, even though he was older, that she may have thought he was on the football team? Perhaps she thought she could hang out with a popular football player for a little while. She also could have felt safer if she thought he was in her peer group. Just a thought.

 

[jamicat]

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/09/26/friend-hannah-graham-suspect-hes-innocent

Friend of Hannah Graham suspect claims JM is innocent

What he's quoted is incorrect. “Do I think he had anything to do with Hannah Graham’s disappearance? Absolutely not,” Moore says. Clearly, JM has something to do with Hannah's disappearance. That much is ABSOLUTELY true. He clearly picked her up a the mall and was the last person with her there, and very, very likely took her somewhere. Then he did not give LE any info that might have helped locate where she is. So yes, he's very much involved.

Did he physically hurt her? Did he rape her? Did he kill her? Those things we do not know yet, but yes he has a lot to do with Hannah's disappearance.

 

[Hannahmaie]

If he or Hannah had their google locator turn on does it still track when turned off? I recently learned because of FB locations that i can sign on to google and see everywhere I have been via google maps.....it shows me at home, walmart, work and 4 hours away at WCU when I visit me son

 

[LI-Mom]

I came to this site because of Hannah, but with a lot of emotional baggage because I have a daughter at UVA. I was relieved when JM was arrested. But since then, after my emotions died down and my logical side kicked in many aspects of this case are raising a lot of questions for me.

Bessie told us not to talk of mental health issues because there is no evidence he's been diagnosed with such. Those of us that said JM doesn't seem all there mentally based it on actual video of his appearance in a courtroom but are told we shouldn't speculate on that. Yet, posters here theorize that he's a textbook narcissist and that's ok. Narcissism falls under mental health issues, fyi.

I don't discount the possibility that JM killed Hannah and hid her body, but I also don't discount that he may have only dropped her off wherever she wanted to go and something happened to her after that. There were those 3 other assaults that same weekend in the area Hannah was supposedly almost, or lost, at.

Posters bring up Bundy, Gacey, etc. What percentage of rapists or murderers are on that level? I imagine that's rare, more rare than women that claim they were raped when they weren't.

I don't discount that his incident at LU could have been consensual but the girl felt guilty the next day (Christian religions are good at guilt-I know, I'm R.C.) and claimed it was rape. That does happen.

I live in NY, and Tawana Brawley was a big thing here, and that forever changed the way I look at accusations of rape. I'm sorry if that offends, but that's what I meant by an earlier post in which I said not all females are angels.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm seeing WS in a new light. It does take on a bit of the witch hunt here and has gotten caught up in the media frenzy. I'm going to dial back on the media reports, and wait for just the facts, ma'am.

You may all be 100% correct about this case, time will tell. But even if JM is the monster you think he is, I still have empathy for him. For if I lose empathy, I am a monster too.

I hope they find Hannah alive. If not, I hope they find her and her family can get closure.

Peace.

 

[RSC]

Sure you can--as long as you are not on the jury

My point , although not clear, I apologize, that just because someone is ACCUSED of rape, doesn't mean that they are a serial killer or serial rapist. JM was never charged so I can't make a judgement on his current actions because of the accusation.

 

[TravelingCircusof5]

(snipped) My thought is that she may have had a crush on someone and was looking for him at the bars, thinking he may be in one of them that night.

That is exactly what I said earlier in this very fast moving thread. It is the only reason I could think of that she a) wanted to go out alone and b) kept moving from place to place.

 

[snarkymalarkey]

A quote from the article

The paradigm is the assumption that, when you make a call on your cell phone, it automatically routes to the nearest cell tower, and that by capturing those records police can determine where you made a call—and thus where you were—at a particular time. That, he explained, is not how the system works.

When you hit “send” on your cell phone, a complicated series of events takes place that is governed by algorithms and proprietary software, not just by the location of the cell tower. First, your cell phone sends out a radio-frequency signal to the towers within a radius of up to roughly twenty miles—or fewer, in urban areas—depending on the topography and atmospheric conditions. A regional switching center detects the signal and determines whether to accept the call. There are hundreds of such regional centers across the country.

The switching center determines the destination of your call and connects to the land lines that will take it to cell towers near the destination. Almost simultaneously, the software “decides” which of half a dozen towers in your area you’ll connect with. The selection is determined by load-management software that incorporates dozens of factors, including signal strength, atmospheric conditions, and maintenance schedules. The system is so fluid that you could sit at your desk, make five successive cell calls and connect to five different towers. During a conversation, your signal could be switched from one tower to the next; you’ll also be “handed off” to another tower if you travel outside your coverage area while you’re speaking. Designed for business and not tracking, call-detail records provide the kind of information that helps cell companies manage their networks, not track phones.

She could have had the find my iphone app or phone tracker. You can also retrieve your phones last location before the battery dies.

 

[Heroine]

My point , although not clear, I apologize, that just because someone is ACCUSED of rape, doesn't mean that they are a serial killer or serial rapist. JM was never charged so I can't make a judgement on his current actions because of the accusation.

With all this talk of learning disorders and him having a childlike way about him, I'm starting to think 1. That makes girls trust him and 2. that's why he's gotten away with so much. Maybe people feel sorry for him. IDK

 

[gitana1]

Jameis Winston was accused of rape, too. Just sayin'.

Im not sure how that supports JM being innocent or this being a one off thing. Many men are accused of rape. And many men are actually guilty. Let's take Jameis Winston:

"On April 16, 2014, The New York Times reported irregularities in the rape investigation involving Winston. Though a medical examination of the victim revealed injuries consistent with sexual trauma – including bruises and semen – and the victim would later identify Winston by name as her attacker, Tallahassee police reportedly never obtained a DNA sample from Winston, never interviewed him, nor attempted to obtain video of the alleged assault taken by Seminoles teammate Chris Casher."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jameis_Winston

Probably guilty.

But regardless, here we have a case where a man was expelled from college due to rape allegations. He was also charged with assault and larceny in a separate case, convicted of trespassing in yet another case, was reportedly aggressively man handling both women and a man the night Hannah disappeared, refused to talk to police about Hannah, recklessly evaded police who were following him, fled the state when a warrant was issued for reckless driving and has been charged with abduction with intent to defile.

Not so similar to Jameis Winston's case.

 

[JudyBolton]

Wow. So if no one at Tempo witnessed Hannah walking in to Tempo with Jesse, and several other witnesses are dead sure Hannah was never in Tempo that night, could it be that Jesse walked out with the other crop-topped girl? Also, if Jesse and the girl were spotted walking back toward the Mall wouldn't that be on video? And what of the claim that Jesse was with another white girl that night? A girl shorter than Hannah? Crop-topped girl inside Tempo was shorter and heavier than Hannah. Very interesting what Coy has revealed here.

Looking at Coy's timeline - when could he have been with this shorter white girl? He had a very busy night from the time he got off work at 3pm until 1 am...

 

[jamicat]

I came to this site because of Hannah, but with a lot of emotional baggage because I have a daughter at UVA. I was relieved when JM was arrested. But since then, after my emotions died down and my logical side kicked in many aspects of this case are raising a lot of questions for me.

Bessie told us not to talk of mental health issues because there is no evidence he's been diagnosed with such. Those of us that said JM doesn't seem all there mentally based it on actual video of his appearance in a courtroom but are told we shouldn't speculate on that. Yet, posters here theorize that he's a textbook narcissist and that's ok. Narcissism falls under mental health issues, fyi.

I don't discount the possibility that JM killed Hannah and hid her body, but I also don't discount that he may have only dropped her off wherever she wanted to go and something happened to her after that. There were those 3 other assaults that same weekend in the area Hannah was supposedly almost, or lost, at.

Posters bring up Bundy, Gacey, etc. What percentage of rapists or murderers are on that level? I imagine that's rare, more rare than women that claim they were raped when they weren't.

I don't discount that his incident at LU could have been consensual but the girl felt guilty the next day (Christian religions are good at guilt-I know, I'm R.C.) and claimed it was rape. That does happen.

I live in NY, and Tawana Brawley was a big thing here, and that forever changed the way I look at accusations of rape. I'm sorry if that offends, but that's what I meant by an earlier post in which I said not all females are angels.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm seeing WS in a new light. It does take on a bit of the witch hunt here and has gotten caught up in the media frenzy. I'm going to dial back on the media reports, and wait for just the facts, ma'am.

You may all be 100% correct about this case, time will tell. But even if JM is the monster you think he is, I still have empathy for him. For if I lose empathy, I am a monster too.

I hope they find Hannah alive. If not, I hope they find her and her family can get closure.

Peace.

I don't think everyone here is on a witch hunt. There is plenty of blame here to spread around, and right now with what LE has released, there is no direct evidence that he harmed her directly. Just as you say. However, in these cases, it's usually pretty straight forward what happened. The focus should be on the vicitm and loved ones first, as well as the safety of the general population, IMO, and I believe the forum does stress this.

The problem is that he is involved in this case and he's not giving any info. If Hannah's hurt somewhere, he has some info, which he's not giving.

I agree he could have run in fear, but he could have made some statement through his attorney to give LE a chance to find Hannah. That he didn't is really not good at all.

 

[steelman]

I was just thinking that, on a college campus, often times larger black men with dreads are on the football team. Not trying to stereotype, but honestly when I went to school and saw a very large, built black man it was assumed that he played football (and most of the time that was accurate). Football players are really looked upon highly, and many girls like to hang out with them. Is it possible, even though he was older, that she may have thought he was on the football team? Perhaps she thought she could hang out with a popular football player for a little while. She also could have felt safer if she thought he was in her peer group. Just a thought.

The only problem I see with that theory is that he was stalking her....not the other way around. I think she just recognized him as a regular around there, he offered to give her a ride home, she was drunk and tired and accepted the offer...........and the rest of it is the stuff nightmares are made from.

 

[Meemaw12]

If he or Hannah had their google locator turn on does it still track when turned off? I recently learned because of FB locations that i can sign on to google and see everywhere I have been via google maps.....it shows me at home, walmart, work and 4 hours away at WCU when I visit me son

Could you please tell me how to do that! I have iphone4. I would like to have this on my phone. And would like to tell my grandson.

Thank you

 

[Dushi]

I don't think everyone here is on a witch hunt. There is plenty of blame here to spread around, and right now with what LE has released, there is no direct evidence that he harmed her directly. Just as you say. However, in these cases, it's usually pretty straight forward what happened. The focus should be on the vicitm and loved ones first, as well as the safety of the general population, IMO, and I believe the forum does stress this.

The problem is that he is involved in this case and he's not giving any info. If Hannah's hurt somewhere, he has some info, which he's not giving.

I agree he could have run in fear, but he could have made some statement through his attorney to give LE a chance to find Hannah. That he didn't is really not good at all.

Yes Great post