VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #6

[TTF14]

I can entertain that possibility too. I have just a read a few posts that suggest that because being missing is not a crime, that is proof that no crime occurred here, which makes absolutely zero sense to me. I see a lot here to indicate that a crime occurred. Again, no "proof" but certainly quite a lot of evidence.

NOBODY said or implied that.

IMO.

 

[Elley Mae]

The person of interest has some similar characteristics as — but does not exactly match — the man another witness described as approaching Graham and putting his arm around her shortly after 1 a.m. Saturday as she walked alone through the pedestrian mall. The witness told police that it looked like someone she knew.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...25aab8-4001-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html

 

[leilarose68]

Yeah of course not beyond a reasonable doubt. I do not think that is the standard here. It is the standard in the court room for obvious reasons, but here I think the standard is something along the lines of "more likely than not". I mean, "beyond a reasonable" doubt is pretty hardcore standard for something like this. We see a drunk girl alone at 1 am who walks off with a man and is never heard from again. Okay, naturally that is not "concrete" and "beyond a reasonable doubt" but to me at least, that is evidence that more likely than not, HG died as a result of her contact with that man.

you're speculating. say whatever you want, but you aren't being technical and rigorous. the POI hasn't even been named as a suspect.

of course i believe hannah was most likely abducted. but as the sheriff himself said, you can't get tunnel vision about POIs or a certain way of looking at the case.

 

[TTF14]

The person of interest has some similar characteristics as — but does not exactly match — the man another witness described as approaching Graham and putting his arm around her shortly after 1 a.m. Saturday as she walked alone through the pedestrian mall. The witness told police that it looked like someone she knew.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...25aab8-4001-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html

What, all black men look alike?

I still think LE completely fabricated what WG provided as a description of this man. I don't know why they did it, but I think they did it. Either that or WG is the worst eye-witness on the face of the earth.

 

[Dixie811]

He is not running; he has not fled. If anyone has a link stating so, please post it. Otherwise let's squash that rumor.

 

[SwampMama]

Also , if he were innocent and knew he had been with her before she disappeared, why wouldn't he tell this to his grandma or mom. I would have to tell someone I knew and ask them what to do or tell them what happened and why I was worried even though I was innocent. I would look for support among those who could support me and help me and come forward. But not him, he doesn't tell anyone what he knows and then disappears when he is finally identified. Again, his action do not make him look innocent.

 

[cluciano63]

I am curious if they can verify if the time was accurate on her last text and where, exactly ,it was sent from.

 

[mrshayes]

He is not running; he has not fled. If anyone has a link stating so, please post it. Otherwise let's squash that rumor.

He has to be under 24 hour surveillance.

 

[Kateinfl]

Maybe this has been mentioned before....they have a dna match with the girl that was raped 5 yrs ago and the same dna match killed MH. Couldn't they show the person who was raped that lived his pic to see if he is the one that could have been involved in those cases?

 

[Fireweed]

A lot of people here just like to be very technical. I like to be technical because I'm always on the fence until it is just way too obvious and I need to pick a side. For instance, If I say there is no proof of a crime being committed, that statement just ends there. It doesn't really mean I think a crime hasn't been committed. But I've followed missing persons case that I was sure was a crime when it ended up not being a crime. And in the process, some peoples reputations have been hurt and left some of us feeling guilt i'm sure. So, I'm sure others like me just like to stick to the technicalities, talk of theories, and stay away from absolutes.

I suppose to me, talking about evidence and something being more likely that not is the opposite of talking in terms of absolutes. I do not understand the purpose of this board, if, in cases such as these, people just constantly say there is no proof that a crime has been committed.

Yes, there is never going to be "proof" at this stage of the case. That is a given. There is not even a body yet. Of course there is not "proof". I simply do not understand why some people feel the need to shut down the discussion here by saying that. I mean, obviously we are not at the "absolute, concrete proof" stage. We are still at the "more likely than not based on the evidence" stage.

A girl missing under HG's circumstances is not proof of a crime, but it is more likely based on the evidence strongly indicative of a crime.

 

[TTF14]

Wow that looks like the WG on his facebook page.Let me know what yall think.His initials are NS

Could be, but utterly impossible to say from the video we saw, which had no visual of his face.

 

[Claudia]

I don't know how anyone can say the cabbie guy looks like anyone. Looking at that pic, zoomed in on my phone, his features are all fuzzy and he even has sunglasses on. I can't make out any distinguishable characteristics except he's a large black man.

 

[Dixie811]

He has to be under 24 hour surveillance.

Yes, Longo implied yesterday that he is. They know where he is... IDK where the rumor that he is running/in hiding came from.

 

[Lava]

What, all black men look alike?

I still think LE completely fabricated what WG provided as a description of this man. I don't know why they did it, but I think they did it. Either that or WG is the worst eye-witness on the face of the earth.

I still think they may have released WG's description knowing it was wrong, to make WG feel more comfortable that they were going in a different direction than him.

 

[Justice101]

You know, the guy looks like a Teddy bear and definitely too young to be Morgan's killer. But let's stick to the case at hand with Hannah.

I think she was lost and she may have seen him before and if he is "a big teddybear" that might have made her feel at ease. He bought her a drink and then tells her he will take her home. She then says and they drive away and then on the drive back she say " can you buy us some more alcohol?" They do and she ends up with alcohol poisoning and he knowing he bought alcohol for a minor, panics.... and drives her somewhere and dumps her off. If he is not bright, he might have thought this was a better option than taking her to a hospital, etc. I just don't know... yes, that would be a crime (buying and contributing to the death of a minor and hiding a body) but definitely not murder. I am really on the fence on this.

 

[TTF14]

I suppose to me, talking about evidence and something being more likely that not is the opposite of talking in terms of absolutes. I do not understand the purpose of this board, if, in cases such as these, people just constantly say there is no proof that a crime has been committed.

Yes, there is never going to be "proof" at this stage of the case. That is a given. There is not even a body yet. Of course there is not "proof". I simply do not understand why some people feel the need to shut down the discussion here by saying that. I mean, obviously we are not at the "absolute, concrete proof" stage. We are still at the "more likely than not based on the evidence" stage.

A girl missing under HG's circumstances is not proof of a crime, but it is more likely based on the evidence strongly indicative of a crime.

Nobody has attempted to shut down the discussion.

 

[TTF14]

I still think they may have released WG's description knowing it was wrong, to make WG feel more comfortable that they were going in a different direction than him.

Could be!

 

[missgulfsouth]

i don't think anyone believes a crime hasn't been committed. people just look at the facts and realize that there is no concrete evidence to suggest she was abducted. aka no physical evidence that's been released, not even a video of hannah getting into that dude's car. as much as it seems obvious that she was abducted, you can't say that beyond a reasonable doubt.

It appears that she went willingly, and that is not abduction.

 

[troykan]

Enough with this issue of proof/evidence of a crime. A judge has issued 2 search warrants in connection with Hannah Graham's disappearance. That means the judge thinks there is probable cause to believe a crime was committed.

Great post and to add to this line of reasoning!

The question is about probabilities, although some missing persons are found alive at a later time, probabilities are likely in the HG case that something else is at play altogether.

HG is a student at UVA and is fully vested in her education from what we do actually know at this point. She has been missing for over a week at this point and probabilities are likely that something sinister has happened to her accordingly.

We do not know 100% with certitude what has happened to her but probability quotients are in favor at this point that something has happened to her outside of an act of her own will.

Therefore it is logically possible HG is simply missing on account of her own will but due to the context and circumstances in this case it is not probable this is indeed the case.

 

[popsicle]

I will answer even though I think Hannah has been murdered, and I never claimed she wasn't. I have followed many, many cases and I have yet to see a warrant for DNA, or an arrest without any documented evidence of a crime. Missing a week is just not evidence of anything. I have seen warrants issued to help in the discovery if evidence, such as a search warrant. But DNA? No. an arrest on charges related to the unspecified reason she is missing? no.
I am also very frustrated that LE in VA would provide identifying data to out (publicly identify) a black man at this particular time in this particular area. But I would rather not get into a debate over my personal beliefs about the way this case is being handled and I am withholding judgement until there is... Evidence.

Since the FBI is involved, I think they have reasons for releasing info the way they have. jmo