VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #6

[birdbox]

I'd like to clarify one point.. as I think the information about Hannah's last text has gotten a bit muddled. AFAIK, according to LE her last text said "I'm lost in the area of 14th and Wertlend". She did not say.. 'I'm going to a party and I'm lost'. Her text was apparently in response to her friend wondering why Hannah was so late in arriving at the party she had planned to meet them at (these are the friends she went to dinner with that evening and was meant to meet up with later). Hannah's last text doesn't specifically indicate she was still wanting to party or planning to party at all.

It seems like a small detail but I think it's important we try not to muddle the few facts we have

In my opinion, you saying her text was apparently in response to a friend's text IS muddying the waters. Did LE say her text was in response to a friend's text? Just saying....

 

[libby5264]

Agreed. I had just never seen that before

 

[Athena12]

I don't understand the reasoning that because he looks like a friendly teddy bear, he isn't likely to be a murderer. There have been plenty of killers who looked and acted friendly as a way to lure in their victims.

 

[Emaa]

i don't think they said he was a cooperative witness 'for now'. did they? i think they just called him a cooperative witness. i mean, there is a big difference between the two statements.

Someone on the last thread pointed out a statement that said "for now".

 

[equanimous]

not sure if this has been posted already

On September 15, 2014, the Department of Public Safety at Washington and Lee University said they received information from the Lexington Police Department that the male was spotted in Lexington.

According to the information received from Lexington Police, the report they received came several days after the sighting of the individual had occurred and they have not been in contact with any individuals matching that description or sketch.

Washington and Lee University sent a message to students and faculty through its alert system on Tuesday evening, confirmed the university’s spokesperson.

http://wtvr.com/2014/09/16/public-safety-notice-issued-that-morgan-harrington-suspect-sighted/

 

[Soulmagent]

I will answer even though I think Hannah has been murdered, and I never claimed she wasn't. I have followed many, many cases and I have yet to see a warrant for DNA, or an arrest without any documented evidence of a crime. Missing a week is just not evidence of anything. I have seen warrants issued to help in the discovery if evidence, such as a search warrant. But DNA? No. an arrest on charges related to the unspecified reason she is missing? no.
I am also very frustrated that LE in VA would provide identifying data to out (publicly identify) a black man at this particular time in this particular area. But I would rather not get into a debate over my personal beliefs about the way this case is being handled and I am withholding judgement until there is... Evidence.

Didnt they have a warrent for Shawn Atkins DNA in Hailey Dunns case? No evidence of a crime at the time of DNA .

Him having his arm arround her as she was seen in the Mall is enough for a DNA warrent but without anything from Hannah to compare it to , there is no reason to obtain it yet as they cant link him to any other case with DNA obtained from a warrent in Hannahs case, That would be fishing and considered outside the scope of the warrent wouldnt it?

 

[BloodshotEye]

Enough with this issue of proof/evidence of a crime. A judge has issued 2 search warrants in connection with Hannah Graham's disappearance. That means the judge thinks there is probable cause to believe a crime was committed.

Thank you! Additionally, LE has made a number of statements in yesterday's press release, that also suggest that a crime has been committed. When Chief Longo's voice, seemed to quake, at the suggestion that 'her parents want to know what happened to her", I felt that was a visceral reaction to his knowing (based on intuition and experience), that HG is not coming home.

 

[Dixie811]

I've seen at least three variations of what her text is supposed to have said, with no way to tell which one is the truth. If you have a citation to an authoritative version, that would be great.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/text-message-key-in-search-for-missing-university-of-virginia-student/

http://myfox8.com/2014/09/17/univer...rahams-last-text-likely-incorrect-police-say/

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/New-Video-Shows-Missing-UVa-Student-Running-275447751.html

Here are three links from MSM providing info about the last text... none of them indicating she said anything about a party in her text. Additionally, when Longo addressed the text at the first presser he did not indicate her saying anything about a party. The only time I have seen that implication is on WS by posters.

 

[TTF14]

Does poi have a cell phone? Can they ping it for that night? What time did he arrive home do we know? Le is surely working on all that info I'm sure.

I wonder....if he was smart enough to disable her phone, would he be smart enough to disable his as well, at least temporarily?

 

[libby5264]

I was thinking that if they had any hope that she was alive, POI would have been taken in and 'thoroughly investigated'

 

[clearskies1]

Yeah, I do not understand how someone could tell us "enough" with discussing proof/evidence on a board called WEBSLEUTHS. Is there something I am missing?

My point was that at this stage probable cause is what matters. That is the standard of proof/evidence that a judge looks for vis-a-vis issuing a warrant.

 

[TTF14]

Didnt they have a warrent for Shawn Atkins DNA in Hailey Dunns case? No evidence of a crime at the time of DNA .

Him having his arm arround her as she was seen in the Mall is enough for a DNA warrent but without anything from Hannah to compare it to , there is no reason to obtain it yet as they cant link him to any other case with DNA obtained from a warrent in Hannahs case, That would be fishing and considered outside the scope of the warrent wouldnt it?

BBM. Why?

 

[leilarose68]

LE may have a little more than just what we know. I do not think the guys in charge of this are being dumb or vindictive or just irresponsibly picking on an innocent man. They seem competent to me and that they know what they are doing.

and they also have doubt, and realize there are other possibilities besides this guy abducting her.

 

[absentia]

And that she has been missing for a week. That is the BIG evidence that a crime occurred. Again, not proof, but evidence.

If she was on X, she could have collapsed behind a dumpster or something. or ended up in the river. not necessarily a crime. I still think she was at 14th and Wertner and was assaulted by whomever was on a rampage last weekend. The assault could have killed her or made her incapable of getting home. maybe she was trying to find help and got even more lost. this could easily be an accident.

 

[missgulfsouth]

Ok. And what evidence would that be?

She went drinking.
She walked up a street.
A man met her.
They went to a bar together.


According to LE, our story stops there.

Not true.
They went to bar together ... and she has never been seen again.
Now the story stops.

 

[Fireweed]

How do you know she didn't then attempt to return home, decided to sleep in some woods, and die of hypothermia? Maybe she committed suicide later that night.

You keep saying it's evidence, I am saying it's not.

Evidence would be her body and then the manner of death. The manner of death is the evidence used to determine whether a crime has been committed.

No that would be proof. A girl her age who has been missing for a week after last being seen walking off with some man at 2 am is evidence that she has met with foul play. It is not proof, but it certainly is evidence.

 

[leilarose68]

Thank you! Additionally, LE has made a number of statements in yesterday's press release, that also suggest that a crime has been committed. When Chief Longo's voice, seemed to quake, at the suggestion that 'her parents want to know what happened to her", I felt that was a visceral reaction to his knowing (based on intuition and experience), that HG is not coming home.

well, everyone knows the statistics. most abducted girls don't make it home. i doubt he has any extra knowledge that would lead him to believe she's gone. just what all of us 'know' and suspect is likely

 

[SwampMama]

consider the source (DM) but BBM

“People saw Hannah and people saw him, and people saw them together. And it’s entirely possible that Hannah Graham may have gotten into his vehicle,” Chief Longo said.

A British news website reported Matthews has told his family he bought the UVa. student a drink, but did not drive off with her.

“He said he went his way and she went hers,” Matthews’ grandmother told the Daily Mail . “He told his mother he bought her some drinks. He said she did not get into his car. The girl went her way and he went his.”

He "bought her some drinks?", Not "they had a drink together" or "they had a drink together"? He was only in tempo about 15 minutes (right?) so that is not time for multiple drinks (I wouldn't think).

Not sure what to think of the way it is being said. Supposedly it was confirmed that he bought alcohol (by LE) so why would he tell his mom/grandma that he "bought drinks for HER".

He is not sounding very forthright or innocent. If I were in the position to be a suspect of a crime, i would be proving my innocence. I would get a lawyer, let them know of my misdeeds (such as buying alcohol for a minor, sharing drugs, etc) and then provide the evidence to my innocence. " I was home at 1:45 on the computer, was buying cigarettes in X store, I was home at xx time and these cars were in the parking lot when I got there so ask my neighbors if they saw my car, etc".

 

[absentia]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/text-message-key-in-search-for-missing-university-of-virginia-student/

http://myfox8.com/2014/09/17/univer...rahams-last-text-likely-incorrect-police-say/

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/New-Video-Shows-Missing-UVa-Student-Running-275447751.html

Here are three links from MSM providing info about the last text... none of them indicating she said anything about a party in her text. Additionally, when Longo addressed the text at the first presser he did not indicate her saying anything about a party. The only time I have seen that implication is on WS by posters.

thanks for clearing that up. I didn't think she said anything about going to a party in that last text.

 

[armcha1r_detect1ve]

And that she has been missing for a week. That is the BIG evidence that a crime occurred. Again, not proof, but evidence.

If being missing is evidence of a crime, you should look up Leanne Bearden's case. She was missing for weeks after going out for a walk. Everyone said her husband killed her, when in fact she committed suicide in someone's backyard.