Found Deceased VA - Morgan Dana Harrington, 20, Charlottesville, 17 Oct 2009 - #9

[part time prof]

Question re the possible Boyd's Tavern "frantic male asking directions"- could the mystery boyfriend have taken the car from the concert and have gone somewhere with it - and gotten lost? Given the confusion over which car was actually at the concert, is there any possibility that for some reason, after initially taking MH's car to the arena, boyfriend drove it back to Harrisonburg and swapped it for one of the other girl's cars?

Interesting, or he could have driven it back to the arena by morning (if LE is right that it was there). Why would mystery boyfriend be frantically trying to get to Harrisonburg from east of Charlottesville, and not even wait for directions?

Two other things that occurred to me. I recall the sighting at Boyd Tavern mentioned other males (3?) in the car. Also, the witness who was interviewed about seeing MH arrive didn't mention a male with them (and mentions 3 or 4 girls...I don't recall).

But I'm with you in trying to tie disparate mostly non-validated pieces together.

And Boyd Tavern to Orange makes sense as kind of on the way to Harrisonburg, to tie together a few recent threads and speculations.

 

[Mountain Mama]

Respectfully snipped:

It may have been left/dropped/thrown somewhere else, then moved by a third party before being found the next morning.

If someone wanted to stage an abduction or throw LE off the real track, they might have placed it there after the fact.


That's all I can get out of it. Any other thoughts?



It seems that one of two things took place with regards to the purse:
Either
1) As you said, the perp wanted to throw LE off track, by making it appear as if MH was taken from that location, when she was abducted elsewhere.
Or
2) The perp lost control of the situation and fearing a witness; was willing to leave the purse behind. (Made a hasty get-a-away, etc.)

With today's cutting edge forensics; its hard to believe a perp would be willing to leave a huge clue like a purse around. Unless...he had strong reason to believe he could not be tied to the purse. Like maybe it had not been exposed to fibers in his vehicle, and he wore gloves. This level of forethought suggests pre-meditation.

re: my #2 hypothesis perhaps there was a witness. That grandma comes to mind.

 

[Cardinal47]

Respectfully snipped:

It may have been left/dropped/thrown somewhere else, then moved by a third party before being found the next morning.

If someone wanted to stage an abduction or throw LE off the real track, they might have placed it there after the fact.


That's all I can get out of it. Any other thoughts?



It seems that one of two things took place with regards to the purse:
Either
1) As you said, the perp wanted to throw LE off track, by making it appear as if MH was taken from that location, when she was abducted elsewhere.
Or
2) The perp lost control of the situation and fearing a witness; was willing to leave the purse behind. (Made a hasty get-a-away, etc.)

With today's cutting edge forensics; its hard to believe a perp would be willing to leave a huge clue like a purse around. Unless...he had strong reason to believe he could not be tied to the purse. Like maybe it had not been exposed to fibers in his vehicle, and he wore gloves. This level of forethought suggests pre-meditation.

re: my #2 hypothesis perhaps there was a witness. That grandma comes to mind.

==================================

Or it could be that her friends dumped Morgans purse there. Tired of the games and going off alone instead of staying at the concert with them. Would they be mad enough after texting and waiting to dump her purse in that lot?

 

[arielilane]

Our focus is on finding Morgan Harrington. Keeping the faith and hope for her family. I can't even begin to know what her family is going through.

Victim Description AGE: 20
EYES: Blue
HAIR: Blonde
HEIGHT: 5'6"
WEIGHT: 120 lbs
LAST SEEN: October 17, 2009
John Paul Jones Arena
Charlottesville, VA

 

[hoppyfrog]

Thanks for your patience, everyone. I had to pull this thread to do some work on it, but then had a very, very busy day.

Hoppy
mod

 

[debirlfan]

Let's look at the theory that she was on the bridge hitchhiking and was picked up by a stranger who did her harm.

Really, how likely is it?

Yeah, there are pervs and killers out there. But what are the odds that during the what - half hour at most? - that she was on the bridge with her thumb stuck out, that someone warped enough to not only assault her but to either lock her away or dispose of her was in that particular spot? And that they were brazen enough to take her from a readily visible location?

If there was this kind of perp lurking in the area, there would be a long trail of bodies/disappearances in the area.

IMHO, it's much more likely that she called someone she knew (perhaps using a borrowed phone) and stuck her thumb out when she saw them coming. At which point she either disappeared because she wanted to, or because something went terribly wrong between her and her "ride".

 

[zwartekat]

If there was this kind of perp lurking in the area, there would be a long trail of bodies/disappearances in the area.

:twocents:

IMO, this was not a premeditated incident. Guess something or someone got out of control and the perp(s) freaked out. I wish I was optimistic about the outcome, but it's been almost 2 months.:banghead:

 

[debirlfan]

:twocents:

IMO, this was not a premeditated incident. Guess something or someone got out of control and the perp(s) freaked out. I wish I was optimistic about the outcome, but it's been almost 2 months.:banghead:

I don't think it was premeditated, either. But I don't think it was a random abduction.

 

[MeoW333]

I recall reading that the purse was found with one strap ripped, but also that LE said there was no apparent sign of struggle.

If she actually got in a car that stopped for her on Copeley Bridge, a semi-immediate toss of the purse out the driver's side window would fairly easily land it where I believe it was found. MH gets in the car, perp immediately rips purse away and tosses it before fleeing. But nobody is stepping forward to say they saw any of that.

If she forgot her purse at Lannigan Field Parking while engaged in the brief interaction around 9:10-9:20 before heading onto Copeley Bridge, then no matter what happened to her, that would explain the purse being there. But if you believe the 7-11 surveillance video claim, then she would have either had to have her purse/money or she would have realized it then (and wouldn't be hitchhiking without first retrieving her purse, unless she was really out of it).

It may have been left/dropped/thrown somewhere else, then moved by a third party before being found the next morning.

If someone wanted to stage an abduction or throw LE off the real track, they might have placed it there after the fact.

It may not have actually been found there, but only reported to be found there (the actual UVa police report says Cage Parking and/or UHall Parking).

That's all I can get out of it. Any other thoughts?

PartT, i remember reading about the strap being torn as well, however i'm not sure where i read it or if it was a rumor?
If it was torn, then possibly someone took her where it was found. The strap could have been ripped in a struggle. I don't see how someone can just forget their purse somewhere, it's not like it was wallet size..
Maybe a perp conned her into walking there with him and then grabbed her and put her in his car.. maybe a struggle ensued in a car and the purse was ripped off and thrown out the car window.

I thought a local said that the distance from the bridge to where the purse was found was way to far to throw it. I was thinking along the lines that the perp had his car parked around there (RV lot area)..

What did the 711 video claim? I can't remember... please refresh my memory =) I don't think i believed it for some reason.. not sure there was footage, can't recall..
If she did make it to the 711, maybe the time frame is off that we have and she later was in the RV lot where the purse was found near the Lannigan Field area? She could have went to 711 (if that is true) got a coffee to warm up and then headed back towards the concert to meet up with friends. I think the time frame is going by witness sightings, and we all know how witnesses can be.
I'm wondering if she met some smooth talker like Bundy.. he would have been able to make her comfortable with him through manipulation, (in this theory he would have seen her as a victim of opportunity at the concert; maybe he likes blondes) and went into action. Lured her outside, stalked her a bit and didn't meet up right away. Then later met up with her and up until a point made her feel at the least comfortable with him. Then he takes her.
Or she could have met up with a random person (since she whoever she was supposed to meet didn't show ~given this scenario~) and something bad happened.

Has the 711 video actually made it into the news or online at all? What did LE say about that?

 

[MeoW333]

==================================

Or it could be that her friends dumped Morgans purse there. Tired of the games and going off alone instead of staying at the concert with them. Would they be mad enough after texting and waiting to dump her purse in that lot?

Why would her friends have her purse? I'm confused..

 

[MeoW333]

The Discussion forum at FindMorgan brought up an interesting scenario: remember the guy who stopped by Boyd's Tavern all freaked out with a car packed with kids? They think maybe they had a hit and run and Morgan was the victim. Very interesting...

http://www.findmorgan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=754&highlight=boyd+tavern

This is extremely interesting, even if it's not related, i wonder why someone would act so distraught asking directions?

 

[MeoW333]

Those are real possibilities. But he's back on campus. You may well be right that none of them were involved; I have no idea if any of them were involved, since I have yet to see an official statement that they are cleared.

IMO, i really don't think that they are involved or they would have got them by now. They seem to be "fully cooperating" with LE.
http://www2.wsls.com/sls/news/state..._interviewed_in_morgan_harrington_case/64390/

"The statement from UVA reads that the players who were interviewed “cooperated fully with law enforcemtn investigators, like other witnesses interviewed by police, they provided information that is important to police efforts to establish Ms. Harrington¹s movements.“

Since UVA issued a statement, maybe VSP feel they don't need to?
It does say that they have cooperated fully with LE, which is a lot more than Morgan's friends have done (the ones there with her that night).

 

[part time prof]

See my responses in red below.

PartT, i remember reading about the strap being torn as well, however i'm not sure where i read it or if it was a rumor?

I recall it coming from one of the searchers, but why would they have been told that, if the purse was already found?
If it was torn, then possibly someone took her where it was found. The strap could have been ripped in a struggle. I don't see how someone can just forget their purse somewhere, it's not like it was wallet size..
Unless they are really out of it, whether alcohol, drugs, or head injury.
Maybe a perp conned her into walking there with him and then grabbed her and put her in his car.. maybe a struggle ensued in a car and the purse was ripped off and thrown out the car window.
Or grabbed her on the bridge and took her there...about 25-50 yards, depending on where on the bridge.

I thought a local said that the distance from the bridge to where the purse was found was way to far to throw it. I was thinking along the lines that the perp had his car parked around there (RV lot area)..

May have been me saying that. From the part of Copeley Bridge closest to JPJ, the Lannigan Field parking lot is pretty much right across the street (though the marker on the map shows it found closer to the running track, probably 35 yards more. From the other end of Copeley Bridge, near the Ivy Road intersection, the lot is at least 50 yards away. There was also some earlier confusion (or current) about whether the purse was found in Lannigan Field Parking, or UHall Parking, or Cage Parking. Cage wouldn't be reachable from the bridge, but parts of UHall would be. Also, if someone picked her up from the bridge in a car, within the first 25-50 yards of driving they would be passing Lannigan Field Parking, so throwing it out the driver's side window, across one lane of traffic, wouldn't be hard. Doing all this unobserved might be a bigger issue, but logistically, it would fit.

What did the 711 video claim? I can't remember... please refresh my memory =) I don't think i believed it for some reason.. not sure there was footage, can't recall..
Unfounded allegation for which I can't remember the source. Just reaching.
If she did make it to the 711, maybe the time frame is off that we have and she later was in the RV lot where the purse was found near the Lannigan Field area? She could have went to 711 (if that is true) got a coffee to warm up and then headed back towards the concert to meet up with friends. I think the time frame is going by witness sightings, and we all know how witnesses can be.
I guess my own refuting of this is that (if) she was seen hitchhiking on Copeley Bridge, this would have had to be after the 7/11 stop (or else she gave up hitchhiking and went to 7/11, then who knows), or as you point out the time line might be wrong. If she made it to 7/11 after hitchhiking (unsuccessfully) on bridge, she could have been hitchhiking again after coffee or whatever, or could have walked to the lot where whatever happened.

respectfully snipped

Has the 711 video actually made it into the news or online at all? What did LE say about that?I don't think they've said anything about this.

 

[part time prof]

This is extremely interesting, even if it's not related, i wonder why someone would act so distraught asking directions?

And if I recall correctly, not even stick around for the directions, but just rush off?

 

[MeoW333]

See my responses in red below.

Thank you for the reply, Prof

Since there doesn't seem to be anything solid about the 711, perhaps they don't have the video or anything and she was never there. Then again in this case, it's hard to figure out anything either way.. If LE didn't say anything about it, maybe she was never there and it's not relevant. Otherwise they might ask for witnesses at the 711 to come forward.. Also if we know what time she was supposed to have been there, does it contradict the times that she asked witnesses to borrow their phones?
The only reason i mention is, maybe she didn't have service at the stadium? 711 would have a phone she could use there.. Anyway, in my opinion i just disregard the 711 sighting as another bogus one.
People try to help, however i'm sure there was a ton of girls that could match Morgan's description around there that night. I even have a friend who looks like her.

As for the hitchhiking scenario, i really don't believe it. For some reason my guy just tells me it's bogus. She doesn't seem like the type to hitchhike with some random person. Perhaps someone saw someone they thought was Morgan, yet unless there's a video of her, i won't believe it.
From her background, everything we have learned thus far, she doesn't seem the type to hitchhike alone at night in a strange place with a stranger in a strange car.

Not sure what to make about what the searchers were told or not.
Heard different stories..
Maybe if Morgan had a small purse inside the pocketbook/backpack purse and they found the wallet small purse, yet not the pocketbook/backpack like one, then that would fit i suppose.
I remember hearing that searchers were told to look for items that would be in a purse and a camera, however not sure about the pocketbook/backpack thing.

If Morgan was on drugs or drunk as a skunk, i'm sure witness reports (granted they are legit) would have described her as such, yet it's not said, so most likely she had her faculties.

I'm thinking someone was able to temporarily gain her "trust" as in a similiar type scenario to that of Natalie Holloway..

 

[MeoW333]

And if I recall correctly, not even stick around for the directions, but just rush off?

The time frame wouldn't fit for Morgan's case, however it does some very shady that the young man would act like that.
Maybe he rushed up to ask directions then ran off before getting the directions as he realized he was talking to a police officer?

 

[MBLover]

If I recall correctly I don't remember there being an actual sighting of MH at the 7-11. I believe it was only speculation.

However, what has been brought up before was the fact about the bank video. A ReadTheHook reporter questioned someone at the bank regarding their video - if MH was on it and the person at the bank said "no comment" (or something to that effect).

I speculated then that possibly since the person made a no comment in reference to this specific question that maybe MH was captured on bank video.

I feel like LE has a definite reason to believe that MH was somewhere on that bridge at some point in time and I feel like that bank video may have some reasoning in that.

 

[5150_bound]

it's interesting that when the Harringtons were on Headline News a while back-
Mr Harrington was asked if Morgan's bank card was used later on that night- and he said he couldn't answer because it was part of the investigation.

oh and hey, i'm Pam. i've been lurking this site for a long time & just made an account.
so this is a virgin post

 

[theforgotten]

it's interesting that when the Harringtons were on Headline News a while back-
Mr Harrington was asked if Morgan's bank card was used later on that night- and he said he couldn't answer because it was part of the investigation.

oh and hey, i'm Pam. i've been lurking this site for a long time & just made an account.
so this is a virgin post

Hi, Pam Welcome to Websleuths. It would be interesting to know if the bank card was used and what was purchased with it.

 

[Angel Who Cares]

I apologize if these have been posted...I'm behind reading the thread..along with being busy with other media for other cases as well! :winko:

Morgan Harrington Update: Police At Work, No P.O.I. Yet
State Police updated the Newsplex on the Morgan Harrington investigation, saying they're still getting tips, have detectives constantly working on the case but have yet to develop any P.O.I. or "person of interest". They are particularly interested in knowing about a Morgan "sighting" in the Culpeper/Orange County area.
Updated: 8:52 PM Dec 10, 2009
<snipped>
A Virginia State Police spokeswoman compares the Morgan Harrington investigation to a jig-saw puzzle. She says they have certain pieces of information but the evidence does not add up yet to a complete picture.

"We have these gaps," said Geller. "But, we have a sighting the next morning up in the Culpeper, Orange area that could be very viable. But, unfortunately, we don't have surveillance video. Nobody at the gas station recalls seeing her there."

The possible Culpeper/Orange sighting is one of many leads investigators are following up on. But, the key information remains at the Copeley Road bridge in Charlottesville where police say several people last saw Harrington trying to hitchhike.

"They may not have seen an actual young woman getting into a car," Geller explained about people who may not realize what they saw. "But, if they just remember seeing a car stopped in the roadway on the bridge and thought, 'Well, this is strange. Why is this vehicle stopped?'"

Geller says they do have information. But, that lead might be the missing piece they're searching for.


Video: Still Many Unanswered Questions in Harrington Case
http://www.newsplex.com/video?clipID=4375407&autoStart=true&contentID=79008717

Article:
http://www.newsplex.com/home/headlines/79008717.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Harrington's Parents Selling T-Shirts
Posted: Dec 14, 2009 11:10 PM EST
Updated: Dec 15, 2009 12:08 AM EST
<snipped>
Morgan Harrington's family is now selling t-shirts to keep the search for her at the top of people's awareness.

The shirts will have the 2+4+1 logo on the front with pictures of Morgan and the phrase Help Find Morgan on the back.

The Virginia Tech student vanished in Charlottesville October 17th.

Article:
http://www.nbc29.com/global/story.asp?s=11677318

:angel: