VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #3 *Arrests*

[abstr]

I haven't heard a single reference to DE's parents except a phrase that he switched high schools because his dad was transferred.

Also as someone who lives in the region I have to point out that a 650,000 dollar home in Columbia is not one of the super wealthy folks. It is more upper middle class in this area.
And if it were my of age child who was involved in this sort of thing it would be a public defender for him... All MOO

 

[JeannaT]

My friends teenage son was staying over at a friends house for the night. Another kid came by in his car and at 11 pm said, I'm going to McD's, you want to go? Friend who was at home said no, my friends kid said yes. While they were out, the driver saw someones car he knew parked at a closed store. He pulled in the lot, took out a tire tool, beat the car up, broke out the windows, got back in his car and proceded to McD's. A week later my friend gets a call at work, LE had her son at the station, you need to meet us here. They showed her the film from the stores lot camera, and her son is standing there, his mouth agape. She asked, how is he responsible, you see who did it. He didn't report it. Kid said, I was afraid of the other kid. Not good enough. He was charged with the other kid, and the family had to pay half of the amount to fix the car.
Even though we had heard of the law, we thought it just applied to like murder, but no, any crime being committed.
We immediately had serious discussions with every teen we knew, and had a perfect example to use.
It is the law here.

I wonder what would have happened if the witnessing kid had good legal representation. Did he have a lawyer and insist on trial by jury?

 

[JeannaT]

Here's a pretty good discussion of whether a witness is required by law to report a crime.

It's California, but it seems like these are the laws I'm used to in Texas also.

https://www.wklaw.com/knowing-about-a-crime-and-not-saying-anything/

 

[rob]

I wonder what would have happened if the witnessing kid had good legal representation. Did he have a lawyer and insist on trial by jury?

The father called his attorney, and he said it is the law, if you can get off with paying half, you're lucky.

 

[Historydetective63]

Much is written about millennials and after today this is truly a millennial murder: Gluten free (nearly every college girl is now gluten free.) The mattress may cause princess to have allergies. They are book smart, but not street smart enough to actually plan what to do after they committed the heinous act. This isn't a soccer match in the suburbs where everyone wins a trophy. Get used to the sound of the door clink. That clink is their new souvenir for life. They went to a dark place that no one can even comprehend.

I am still confused how they chose Nicole. It leads me to wonder if one of her relatives works on campus or someone in her family knew DE. And if Keepers had a boyfriend, then why is she involved in plotting to take a life? College is a busy time. School and a boyfriend keeps you busy enough.

I wish after that other guy trolled Nicole, she'd simply put her phone down and had enough. Sweet soul.

I have to agree with everything you said! I know NK's father was trying to persuade the judge to let his daughter out on bond, but stating such lame things as an uncomfortable mattress that exacerbates her allergies and feeding her food that is not gluten free when only about 1% of the American population need to avoid gluten (which comes from wheat, rye, and barley flour). It's not a 5-star resort for crying out loud, it's JAIL! You don't get to bring your pillow top mattress or have catered gourmet meals - because it is a JAIL! What did NK think jail would be like?? Or did she not think that far ahead??? If she thinks jail is so bad, wait till she gets transferred to prison! I'm surprised they didn't complain about the orange jumpsuit also! And jails are always kept at an uncomfortably cold temperature, I'm surprised she didn't ask for her sweaters!

 

[JeannaT]

The father called his attorney, and he said it is the law, if you can get off with paying half, you're lucky.

I would have switched attorneys. This is a simple property crime, and the obvious guilty party is on tape, and the child in question was on an errand to buy food at McDonalds, not commit a crime. I don't think he was "lucky" to have to foot half the bill for the destruction of property.

 

[dyannaON]

Slightly off topic but I have a 20 year old son who is battling addictions since 15. I have had to call police on my son for violent behaviours and he has actually been charged by police because of these phone calls I made. It broke my heart. I even regretted at times calling as I knew he would go back to jail. His last stint was for 3 months. It hurt me so much to know my son was in prison with murders and rapists. He is an addict that made poor choices. His last stint in prison I stopped accepting collect calls. I didn't go visit him and I didn't send him money. I cried myself to sleep every night. He had court and I did show up and seeing him in the prisoners box was horrifying. I spoke about him to the courts. He wept like a baby. The judge released him that day.
My son went to treatment in November and is doing ok now. He had nightmares of jail. His cell mate committed suicide. He witnessed many beatings. He did drugs in jail. He was beaten up. He is small good looking boy. He life was forever changed by that. I don't know why I'm sharing I know my son isn't a murderer but I believe in tough love. My son has a record now but I'm still glad to this day I called police every single time I did. And I wouldn't hesitate to call again if need be.


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[courtneyb]

I think they did. MSM has reported they had a sexual relationship.

I've seen most MSM report an "inappropriate" relationship, stopping short of saying a "sexual" relationship. Not that it matters to me... He had no business whatsoever having any contact with a 13 year old girl to whom he is not related or acquainted with through family.

I wonder, unless they are now actually confirming a "sexual" as opposed to "inappropriate" relationship and I have just missed it, why at the very least, NK isn't blabbing about that detail. She sure hasn't had to have her arm twisted to tell authorities everything else. I think she is still enjoying this. Being a person that people are in awe of her actions and that she likes that people are trying to figure out the why's and how's of what she did. I think she feels it makes her seem more complex, therefore, more interesting, more 3 dimensional or real in a way. I have a feeling that she has felt like she wasn't anybody, which probably was linked to her cutting. I think talking about what she did is just as exciting to her as what she did. And, I wouldn't be surprised if she embellishes her role. Which may explain in part why she was involved in the planning and disposal, but allegedly not the murder itself, then she immediately told a friend what happened and then spilled her guts to police without the first attempt at denial. She wanted to be involved and was happy to share her involvement but couldn't do the murder itself, for whatever reason. That's why she needed DE... And I don't think she is necessarily trying to avoid punishment. I think if she could have carried out the actual murder ( or any other) herself, she would have, alone.

I have a feeling DE was pretty shocked when she immediately spilled her guts. I bet the plan was to deny, deny, deny. But, I think she intended to talk from the beginning.

 

[Historydetective63]

I have to agree with everything you said! I know NK's father was trying to persuade the judge to let his daughter out on bond, but stating such lame things as an uncomfortable mattress that exacerbates her allergies and feeding her food that is not gluten free when only about 1% of the American population need to avoid gluten (which comes from wheat, rye, and barley flour). It's not a 5-star resort for crying out loud, it's JAIL! You don't get to bring your pillow top mattress or have catered gourmet meals - because it is a JAIL! What did NK think jail would be like?? Or did she not think that far ahead??? If she thinks jail is so bad, wait till she gets transferred to prison! I'm surprised they didn't complain about the orange jumpsuit also! And jails are always kept at an uncomfortably cold temperature, I'm surprised she didn't ask for her sweaters!

I think DE chose Nicole because she was close in proximity to campus. I dont use Kik, but perhaps there is a way to communicate with people who are geographically close to you. I don't believe he started communicating with Nicole in order to abduct and kill her. It probably started with him looking online for girls close by to meet and hook up with. I think the whole thing got worse when he disclosed this to NK, who I believe was behind a lot of the plot to murder. But I suppose it takes two to be this whacked!

As far as NK having a boyfriend, I don't see any credible evidence of this. It seems she spent a lot of time with DE. She even had him take her to the hospital during the Fall semester when she had appendicitis. You would think if she really had another boyfriend she would have asked him to take her and she would have been spending her free time with him instead of DE. That's why I do not believe there was another boyfriend in the picture.

 

[Really?]

Not sure if this was posted https://www.facebook.com/natalie.keepers?fref=ts

Thanks....

 

[JeannaT]

Slightly off topic but I have a 20 year old son who is battling addictions since 15. I have had to call police on my son for violent behaviours and he has actually been charged by police because of these phone calls I made. It broke my heart. I even regretted at times calling as I knew he would go back to jail. His last stint was for 3 months. It hurt me so much to know my son was in prison with murders and rapists. He is an addict that made poor choices. His last stint in prison I stopped accepting collect calls. I didn't go visit him and I didn't send him money. I cried myself to sleep every night. He had court and I did show up and seeing him in the prisoners box was horrifying. I spoke about him to the courts. He wept like a baby. The judge released him that day.
My son went to treatment in November and is doing ok now. He had nightmares of jail. His cell mate committed suicide. He witnessed many beatings. He did drugs in jail. He was beaten up. He is small good looking boy. He life was forever changed by that. I don't know why I'm sharing I know my son isn't a murderer but I believe in tough love. My son has a record now but I'm still glad to this day I called police every single time I did. And I wouldn't hesitate to call again if need be.


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I'm sorry you had to go through that. If he was violent, though, and threatening violence, you may have saved him from a much worse life, of being in prison for the rest of his life, and you have saved a victim.

Sometimes parenting is so very hard. Best wishes.

 

[BUF]

Slightly off topic but I have a 20 year old son who is battling addictions since 15. I have had to call police on my son for violent behaviours and he has actually been charged by police because of these phone calls I made. It broke my heart. I even regretted at times calling as I knew he would go back to jail. His last stint was for 3 months. It hurt me so much to know my son was in prison with murders and rapists. He is an addict that made poor choices. His last stint in prison I stopped accepting collect calls. I didn't go visit him and I didn't send him money. I cried myself to sleep every night. He had court and I did show up and seeing him in the prisoners box was horrifying. I spoke about him to the courts. He wept like a baby. The judge released him that day.
My son went to treatment in November and is doing ok now. He had nightmares of jail. His cell mate committed suicide. He witnessed many beatings. He did drugs in jail. He was beaten up. He is small good looking boy. He life was forever changed by that. I don't know why I'm sharing I know my son isn't a murderer but I believe in tough love. My son has a record now but I'm still glad to this day I called police every single time I did. And I wouldn't hesitate to call again if need be.

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Thanks for sharing dyannaON. Tough love is so difficult...been there. You did the right thing.

 

[Historydetective63]

I would have switched attorneys. This is a simple property crime, and the obvious guilty party is on tape, and the child in question was on an errand to buy food at McDonalds, not commit a crime. I don't think he was "lucky" to have to foot half the bill for the destruction of property.

Confused here. Are you two discussing the Nicole Lovell abduction and murder case or some other case?

 

[JeannaT]

Confused here. Are you two discussing the Nicole Lovell abduction and murder case or some other case?

Sorry, some other case. We're discussing whether it's lawful to charge Natalie with murder, based on the fact that she was an accomplice, and then we went down a huge rabbit trail of when accomplices can or can't be charged.

Sorry to derail.

 

[JohnTate90210]

(snipped some content)

As far as NK having a boyfriend, I don't see any credible evidence of this. It seems she spent a lot of time with DE. She even had him take her to the hospital during the Fall semester when she had appendicitis. You would think if she really had another boyfriend she would have asked him to take her and she would have been spending her free time with him instead of DE. That's why I do not believe there was another boyfriend in the picture.

At least a few news reports covering the hearing said NK was at her boyfriend's when police went to question her. I assume the prosecutor said so at the hearing.

This one says she was at her boyfriend's house:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/04/us/virginia-tech-girl-killed-keepers-bail-denied/

This says boyfriend's room:

http://wsls.com/2016/02/04/commonwe...omething-secret-and-special-in-lovell-murder/

This one says boyfriend's dorm room:

http://cinemablaze.com/2016/02/05/bail-denied-for-natalie-keepers.html

In regards to the hospitalization, perhaps she hadn't met her boyfriend yet.

 

[Historydetective63]

'Just jumping off your post here...

I am curious about his history with females prior to this case. IIRC, NK's prior boyfriend was quoted in a news report, but I'm not aware any reporters being able to ferret out a past girlfriend for DE? 'Anyone know if there's any SM info related to DE... maybe some photos of him with girlfriends, or high school prom pics, etc. Maybe I'm alone in this curiosity but I wonder if he had "normal" (age-appropriate) relationships?

Good points you make! I wonder too.

 

[jenves]

Man I wish we could watch yesterday's bond hearing. It would clear a lot up for me, instead of second hand news reports.

 

[Historydetective63]

If some evidence is via cell phones, could that bring the FBI in? Not that they need a specific reason, often they are asked simply for their resources and expertise. State lines being crossed is not necessary anymore though it still can be a factor. Jmo

I thought the FBI was involved in this case including the search when Nicole was missing.

 

[TheOtherChristina]

I hope it's okay to say this, I think it is since she is a named suspect. NK's FB indicated that she received a concussion in 2011. I know that concussions are quite common, but it does make me wonder if she could have received some kind of brain injury at that time. I know that more links are being discovered between TBI and future violent behavior.

One thing that strikes me is her history of self-harm, which indicates to me that she internalizes her emotions. My understanding it that people who engage in self-harm are actually less likely to be violent toward others, rather than more likely. TBI could explain her unusual behavioral overlap.

 

[Cryptic]

Not likely. If you hire a hit, you'll be charged with solicitation of murder or conspiracy to murder.

I know in the case of the guy in the getaway care, some prosecutors are successful and some municipalities allow for charging everyone with the worst crime committed by the group, but that's unusual. Usually you get charged with what can be proven you did.

I believe the legal term for the concept is the: "Law of Party", if one is party to a portion of a crime as an individual, then one is also responsible for the actions of the entire group.

I know that in Texas, people have actually received the death penalty under this concept. But, as you stated, the use of it, even in states that allow it, appears to be becoming rare.