VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #3 *Arrests*

[rob]

Well, I'm sure glad that's not true everywhere. That takes "punishing the whole class for the misbehavior of one" to a twisted extreme.

If someone is murdered in the commission of a petty burglary, the murderer, and accessories should be charged, and not the one who stands there in horror with their mouth open.

No, if you witness a crime, that you weren't expecting to happen, you report it immediately to LE and you are not held responsible for it. If you are participating in a robbery, and your co-hort decides to kill the store clerk, and you just leave with him and keep your mouth shut, then they look at the film in the store and see you there, whoops, now you are hung with it.
Seems totally fair to me.

 

[Dawn316]

Not sure if this was posted https://www.facebook.com/natalie.keepers?fref=ts

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well, I'm sure glad that's not true everywhere. That takes "punishing the whole class for the misbehavior of one" to a twisted extreme.

If someone is murdered in the commission of a petty burglary, the murderer, and accessories should be charged, and not the one who stands there in horror with their mouth open.

Here is another case where a woman convinced her husband to murder her ex. She didn't do the crime but she was convicted of first degree murder and she got LWOP for being the mastermind.


Classification: Murderer
Characteristics: Convinced her husband to shoot and kill her ex-husband
Number of victims: 1
Date of murder: August 24, 2004
Date of arrest: December 19, 2008
Date of birth: August 30, 1975
Victim profile: Mitchell Wayne Kemp, 40 (her former husband)
Method of murder: Shooting
Location: Boone County, Missouri, USA
Status: Sentenced to life in prison without parole on August 16, 2010

http://murderpedia.org/female.M/m/morton-tausha.htm

And by Keepers own admission she was in on the plot even deciding along with her co-conspirator that a knife should be used to commit the murder.

 

[AmyPond]

I agree that the lawyer's statements were bizarre, and completely missed the mark. Those are the kind of things you put in an obituary of a child who died tragically. Placed in a plea to get a young woman bail in an accessory to murder charge of a child, they ring extremely odd.

Add to that, it seems even obvious to me, who doesn't know Natalie at all, that the whole disney princess club is a COMPLETE joke and if she did in fact join, she did it to make a point of what a ridiculous concept (and damaging to young girl's concepts of themselves, actually) the princess club idea is.

The fact that she apparently laughed when the princess club leads me to believe the lawyer was clueless and she was laughing because it's not something she's REALLY a part of.

We have this great radio personality, Jeff Ward, who is ALWAYS amazed at people who want to grab the limelight and step in front of the cameras when something awful has happened. It never ends well, he says. This will not serve you. Shut thy face.

I agree. If some awful and lurid tragedy has happened and you have insider gossip or knowledge, keep it to yourself or spill it at a cocktail party but other than that, zip it.

I never understood people talking to cameras in bad situations. Years ago, our neighbor died. Tons of cops and crime scene people. A news guy knocked on our door and asked if we would talk to them. We said no. I don't think any neighbor did. Turns out, it was a carbon monoxide leak. So why would they even want a quote from a neighbor? So weird. I'm glad no one spoke to the news.

 

[AmandaSkis]

bbm - Nicole might have been lying in the back seat or passenger seat.




She looks utterly crushed in that second photo.

You see crushed but I see someone who looks worn out. I still do not see any remorse in her pics.

 

[JeannaT]

No, if you witness a crime, that you weren't expecting to happen, you report it immediately to LE and you are not held responsible for it. If you are participating in a robbery, and your co-hort decides to kill the store clerk, and you just leave with him and keep your mouth shut, then they look at the film in the store and see you there, whoops, now you are hung with it.
Seems totally fair to me.

You are not bound by law to report a crime that you had no part in.

There are laws about "mandatory reporters" of child abuse, meaning there are some occupations that are required to report child abuse that they witness or know of. Doctors, teachers, I forget who all is a mandatory reporter.

Meaning, of course, that most of us aren't required to report. You can witness a crime and walk away, not having participated or benefited.

 

[Pisces22]

It seems telling to me that DE drove (& may or may not have owned) a Lexus and his parents' home is valued at $650K, yet he's being represented by a public defender. In other words, his parents can clearly afford to hire a private attorney for their son, but they have failed to so.

He's 18. The value of his parent's home is irrelevant to the court in terms of determining if he qualifies financially for a public defender. And who knows how old the Lexus is and if it has any real value. There are all kinds of families living beyond there means and if DE's are(were) paying for college they may not be able to afford an attorney. This isn't going to be a few thousand dollar legal representation case. I'm sure a death penalty qualified attorney is going to be required as well. Surely that spikes the fees too.

Note that personally I am in no way defending DE. Just stating how I can understand how even what seems to be an upper middle class family could not afford to hire a death penalty qualified lawyer.
"The most comprehensive study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of sentencing murderers to life imprisonment. The majority of those costs occur at the trial level." http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf

Have DE's parents/family been in court at all? I know NK's showed up.

 

[JeannaT]

You see crushed but I see someone who looks worn out. I still do not see any remorse in her pics.

I see flat.

Just totally flat.

 

[Haayturtle]

Can her charges be upgraded still?


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[JeannaT]

He's 18. The value of his parent's home is irrelevant to the court in terms of determining if he qualifies financially for a public defender. And who knows how old the Lexus is and if it has any real value. There are all kinds of families living beyond there means and if DE's are(were) paying for college they may not be able to afford an attorney. This isn't going to be a few thousand dollar legal representation case. I'm sure a death penalty qualified attorney is going to be required as well. Surely that spikes the fees too.

Note that personally I am in no way defending DE. Just stating how I can understand how even what seems to be an upper middle class family could not afford to hire a death penalty qualified lawyer.
"The most comprehensive study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of sentencing murderers to life imprisonment. The majority of those costs occur at the trial level." http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf

Have DE's parents/family been in court at all? I know NK's showed up.

I haven't heard a single reference to DE's parents except a phrase that he switched high schools because his dad was transferred.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No, if you witness a crime, that you weren't expecting to happen, you report it immediately to LE and you are not held responsible for it. If you are participating in a robbery, and your co-hort decides to kill the store clerk, and you just leave with him and keep your mouth shut, then they look at the film in the store and see you there, whoops, now you are hung with it.
Seems totally fair to me.

Thank you. It is quite common for all parties to be charged equally under the felony murder rule. When anyone is engaging in a felony such as armed robbery/ kidnapping, etc and someone dies during that felony like a teller being shot inside of a bank for instance all parties to the armed robbery are equally guilty even the one who is sitting outside in the getaway car. That person is also a party to the felony bank robbery.

ITA! I find it totally fair. Anyone should know if they go in with someone to commit a felony bad things can happen and they would be just as involved in it as the actual killer or even if someone survived their injuries then they would all be tried for attempted murder.

 

[cluciano63]

If some evidence is via cell phones, could that bring the FBI in? Not that they need a specific reason, often they are asked simply for their resources and expertise. State lines being crossed is not necessary anymore though it still can be a factor. Jmo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Can her charges be upgraded still?


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Yes they can.

 

[Kip]

This is not surprising to me. Look at the way kids are raised now. It starts with the whole Princess crap, every little girl is a princess now. Then it moves on to parents being friends to their kids, instead of teaching them empathy, and gratefulness, personal responsibility, and kindness to others, etc. Mom and dad rush to schools when their angels are in trouble, threatening to sue, because their babies would NEVER!!! Then they watch shows like My Super Sweet 16, and all the other crap on MTV. It is completely understandable that kids are more and more narcissistic when you look at the culture they are exposed to from a very young age. This is a scary trend that needs to end.

I totally agree with you. (And add to that all the selfies kids take.) But sometimes kids turn out bad despite having good parents. I think that for the most part sociopaths are born, not made, that a child can be born with a missing or malfunctioning part of the brain that controls empathy just as a child can be born with a malfunctioning intestinal system. I've known a couple of families were the children were raised well, but one of the children either had something missing or went wrong somewhere. One family in my neighborhood growing up had 4 children. The second was always in trouble, abused animals, did crazy, dangerous stuff. I'm amazed this kid didn't turn into a murderer.

The other trend is the easy access to *advertiser censored* and extreme violence online where users require increasing violence to get a thrill. I think of the mild-mannered, PhD killer of Joanna Yeats. He started watching online *advertiser censored*, then moved to violent *advertiser censored*, then to snuff *advertiser censored*, then to violence with prostitutes.

 

[meanmaryjean]

If some evidence is via cell phones, could that bring the FBI in? Not that they need a specific reason, often they are asked simply for their resources and expertise. State lines being crossed is not necessary anymore though it still can be a factor. Jmo

Kidnapping is always a federal crime and involves the FBI, right?

 

[rob]

You are not bound by law to report a crime that you had no part in.

There are laws about "mandatory reporters" of child abuse, meaning there are some occupations that are required to report child abuse that they witness or know of. Doctors, teachers, I forget who all is a mandatory reporter.

Meaning, of course, that most of us aren't required to report. You can witness a crime and walk away, not having participated or benefited.

I don't know if you are getting the point. If you are participating in the crime, and the other person decides to kill someone, you are involved. If you are a customer and witness the crime and run for your life, different story.
I would suggest you don't come to SC and commit a petty crime that might go hay-wire.
All MOO

 

[BUF]

FBI was brought in way back...

http://www.fredericksburg.com/news/...538-c8fd-11e5-b6db-cf9e5aee0088.html?mode=jqm

By the time the Surry County Sheriff’s Office was notified about the body, investigators from Virginia and the FBI were already working the scene, Atkinson said.

 

[JeannaT]

I don't know if you are getting the point. If you are participating in the crime, and the other person decides to kill someone, you are involved. If you are a customer and witness the crime and run for your life, different story.
I would suggest you don't come to SC and commit a petty crime that might go hay-wire.
All MOO

Well, I don't commit petty crimes, so I'm in the clear there. I just believe - firmly - that you should be charged for what you did. Same thing in school, you shouldn't have to stay after school because one kid was mouthing off to the teacher. Same as if you are attacked in school and fight back - it does matter who started it.

I agree that in some municipalities, it doesn't matter at all who did what, but that seems every bit as lazy as school discipline officers refusing to look at each misbehavior and figure out the guilty vs. innocent parties. It seems lazy.

But additionally, in your scenario you are free to run for your life, and free to not report the crime.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Is this the first time DE lured Nicole out of her window? Did they meet up in person before this night? People keep saying Nicole planned to tell on DE and expose him, but wouldn't that mean they had to have met before?

I think they did. MSM has reported they had a sexual relationship.

 

[rob]

My friends teenage son was staying over at a friends house for the night. Another kid came by in his car and at 11 pm said, I'm going to McD's, you want to go? Friend who was at home said no, my friends kid said yes. While they were out, the driver saw someones car he knew parked at a closed store. He pulled in the lot, took out a tire tool, beat the car up, broke out the windows, got back in his car and proceded to McD's. A week later my friend gets a call at work, LE had her son at the station, you need to meet us here. They showed her the film from the stores lot camera, and her son is standing there, his mouth agape. She asked, how is he responsible, you see who did it. He didn't report it. Kid said, I was afraid of the other kid. Not good enough. He was charged with the other kid, and the family had to pay half of the amount to fix the car.
Even though we had heard of the law, we thought it just applied to like murder, but no, any crime being committed.
We immediately had serious discussions with every teen we knew, and had a perfect example to use.
It is the law here.