VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #6 *Arrests*

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popsicle said:
Va. medical examiner: Nicole Lovell died from stab wounds to the neck

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...cc82d_story.html?wprss=rss_crime&tid=sm_tw_pl
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Ugh. I'm thinking that they were going to try and cut her throat as planned, like they've seen on TV and movies. Then Nicole fought like hell so there were stab woundS not just one wound.
This also makes me think they HAD to be messy after this. Racking my brain wondering where they cleaned up on a very cold dark night between the Giles County line and the Wytheville Walmart. Do track runners have access to any locker room type facilities I wonder? I can't imagine a freshman walk on with a key but I'm just thinking aloud.


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They may have found it more difficult than they had envisaged because of the scar tissue NL has from previous procedures. Hate thinking about it.
 
TsulaNC said:
Ugh. I'm thinking that they were going to try and cut her throat as planned, like they've seen on TV and movies. Then Nicole fought like hell so there were stab woundS not just one wound.
This also makes me think they HAD to be messy after this. Racking my brain wondering where they cleaned up on a very cold dark night between the Giles County line and the Wytheville Walmart. Do track runners have access to any locker room type facilities I wonder? I can't imagine a freshman walk on with a key but I'm just thinking aloud.


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Click to expand...
I highly doubt they had access to locker rooms. In my experience at a D1 school, student athletes had the code to access the locker room, but no one (students) had keys to the building. I'm 99.9% sure that is not where they cleaned up.

It's so sad thinking about the fear that must have come over Nicole. It just breaks my heart! She started that night as an excited, naiive little girl, meeting up with someone she probably believed really cared for her. She must have been terrified in those final moments. I hate that! I really hope she didn't suffer.
 
whiskers said:
So if the police come to question you, they don't need to read you the miranda?

I don't watch crime shows so I'm not as learned on this topic.

Do we think that the police only showed up to question Keepers? And then she spilled the beans.
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Well I haven't bothered to get verified or whatever but I'm retired LE from VA. It's expected that if you are asking routine questions if the answers veer in the direction of implicating the person speaking you will interrupt them to sign that old Miranda form. It's ridiculous that you have to break off in the middle of a statement but that's what you have to do. So if a smart detective has a tiny inkling the person they're talking to might make an incriminating statement you have them sign off before the conversation gets started. It's basically saying "You shouldn't talk, you don't have to talk, if you talk we will use it against you, do you want to talk now." Amazingly many people talk. I bet she had waived her rights in the field but they got her to do it again at the station in front of a video camera. I think they had their best investigators and the Commonwealth's Attorney was probably involved from the beginning. I just wonder why the news reported it that way. As tired as she looked in her booking photos she probably was being questioned for hours (Jan 30-31) before being booked in the wee hours of Jan 31. So maybe she told them where to find the body. I have a hard time believing a girl from MD knew where they were when they dumped the body. It was placed in DE's comfort zone. He knew the area. We'll find out next month (maybe).

But to really answer the question for ordinary questions they don't need to Mirandize if you are not a suspect.

edit: Sorry I haven't been on this board in a couple of days but, "Police only have to read you Miranda if you are under arrest." is not true. See above. If they have mere suspicion that you will make an incriminating statement they must Mirandize before asking a question other than name, address, etc. If they do not and you for instance lead them to a dead body there will be a fight about whether your statement will be thrown out. At the moment it veers into you being a person of interest they must read you your rights. Nowadays they have you sign a Miranda form. And video it if possible.
 
5Eyz said:
Well I haven't bothered to get verified or whatever but I'm retired LE from VA. It's expected that if you are asking routine questions if the answers veer in the direction of implicating the person speaking you will interrupt them to sign that old Miranda form. It's ridiculous that you have to break off in the middle of a statement but that's what you have to do. So if a smart detective has a tiny inkling the person they're talking to might make an incriminating statement you have them sign off before the conversation gets started. It's basically saying "You shouldn't talk, you don't have to talk, if you talk we will use it against you, do you want to talk now." Amazingly many people talk. I bet she had waived her rights in the field but they got her to do it again at the station in front of a video camera. I think they had their best investigators and the Commonwealth's Attorney was probably involved from the beginning. I just wonder why the news reported it that way. As tired as she looked in her booking photos she probably was being questioned for hours (Jan 30-31) before being booked in the wee hours of Jan 31. So maybe she told them where to find the body. I have a hard time believing a girl from MD knew where they were when they dumped the body. It was placed in DE's comfort zone. He knew the area. We'll find out next month (maybe).

But to really answer the question for ordinary questions they don't need to Mirandize if you are not a suspect.
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Hey 5Eyz, thanks so much for giving us some information on how all of this works!
 
wyome said:
OFF topic, but...

My son just got accepted to Virginia Tech, lol! Funny what kind of feeling that conjures up after following this case for the past month:scared:
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Mine did too! Maybe we can pretend we're there to visit them but really go sit in on the trial. My son is not firm on where he's going though. He has other great offers. It's hard for me to believe that DE is only 10 months older than my son.
 
DatelineFan said:
I highly doubt they had access to locker rooms. In my experience at a D1 school, student athletes had the code to access the locker room, but no one (students) had keys to the building. I'm 99.9% sure that is not where they cleaned up.

It's so sad thinking about the fear that must have come over Nicole. It just breaks my heart! She started that night as an excited, naiive little girl, meeting up with someone she probably believed really cared for her. She must have been terrified in those final moments. I hate that! I really hope she didn't suffer.
Click to expand...

Just a wild guess...maybe they cleaned up at the home of DE's relative. He knew the area because he has relatives there. Maybe the relatives weren't home??

They must have been a mess. Oh wait, they also went to Walmart so I would assume they cleaned before Walmart. A gas station along the way, perhaps?

Or, maybe they brought along clothes?

??
 
I wonder if they thought of bringing extra clothes...

Good thinking about the relatives' house. My next guess would be a gas station. For some reason I really want to know about this detail!
 
Just K said:
I keep thinking that the reason they "found Keepers 'in her boyfriends's' room is because when they arrived at Eisenhauer's dorm room, with the search warrant, they found Keepers there. I really don't believe there is another guy who is referred to as her boyfriend. She was probably there when the police arrived with the search warrant and didn't know that he had already been arrested. Which would explain why she texted, "Police" to his phone. The phone probably was right there in the room and the police found it because of her text message.
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I agree, I was thinking the same thing. Since we haven't heard of this "boyfriend" it is very possible that is where she was. It would make sense. Also I keep thinking this could have been a thrill kill and they had some kind of sexual excitement associated with it. Remember a while back there was a couple on craigslist that would lure people to them for that exact reason? I think its very likely that NL thought he had genuine feelings for her. I have noticed that kids her age also want to say "my boyfriend" they want to be grown up they want to be popular. When in all reality its being very immature Just my opinion.
 
Inthedetails said:
Just a wild guess...maybe they cleaned up at the home of DE's relative. He knew the area because he has relatives there. Maybe the relatives weren't home??

They must have been a mess. Oh wait, they also went to Walmart so I would assume they cleaned before Walmart. A gas station along the way, perhaps?

Or, maybe they brought along clothes?

??
Click to expand...

It would be likely they had extra clothes. My guess is that they had cleaned up at perhaps a rest stop? I am unsure if they used the interstate or not. They would have had to dispose of clothing. LE hasn't said where she was murdered at. They said they planned to dispose of the body at Craigs Creek. But then they said thats where they were going to kill her. Could it be that maybe just maybe they did it in NC where they disposed the body of NL? They could have told her that they were eloping or something and Natalie was along for the ride? IDK just throwing it out there. Have they ever said where this really took place?
 
Inthedetails said:
Just a wild guess...maybe they cleaned up at the home of DE's relative. He knew the area because he has relatives there. Maybe the relatives weren't home??

They must have been a mess. Oh wait, they also went to Walmart so I would assume they cleaned before Walmart. A gas station along the way, perhaps?

Or, maybe they brought along clothes?

??
Click to expand...

Laundromat?
 
wgram said:
It would be likely they had extra clothes. My guess is that they had cleaned up at perhaps a rest stop? I am unsure if they used the interstate or not. They would have had to dispose of clothing. LE hasn't said where she was murdered at. They said they planned to dispose of the body at Craigs Creek. But then they said thats where they were going to kill her. Could it be that maybe just maybe they did it in NC where they disposed the body of NL? They could have told her that they were eloping or something and Natalie was along for the ride? IDK just throwing it out there. Have they ever said where this really took place?
Click to expand...

bbm

Not that I remember.
 
My uneducated guess is they cleaned up right after they slaughtered NL. I would guess from neck wounds there would be lots of blood splurting. They went to Walmart next. So, I would say they had extra clothes and probably baby wipes. Allot of attention would be on them at Walmart if they were all bloody. It was cold...coat? gloves? dungarees? mechanic cover alls? by that pond where LE were searching?
one had to hold her while one stabbed? Did they both get her down and start stabbing? Was NL tied up? Just pray there was no torture! Heinous murder scene! EVIL........
 
passionflower said:
My uneducated guess is they cleaned up right after they slaughtered NL. I would guess from neck wounds there would be lots of blood splurting. They went to Walmart next. So, I would say they had extra clothes and probably baby wipes. Allot of attention would be on them at Walmart if they were all bloody. It was cold...coat? gloves? dungarees? mechanic cover alls? by that pond where LE were searching?
one had to hold her while one stabbed? Did they both get her down and start stabbing? Was NL tied up? Just pray there was no torture! Heinous murder scene! EVIL........
Click to expand...

Maybe they cleaned up in the Walmart bathroom? That seems risky, but if they took off their coats (assuming they were wearing coats during the murder, which I don't know is true, of course) maybe the could get inside the store without detection and then clean up in the bathroom? I'd like to see those security-camera videos.

But the more I think about it, the more likely a gas station with bathrooms you access outside would be the reasonable choice. However, given that these two were so sloppy with cover-up, they might not have been bothered walking into Walmart full of blood. In fact, they might have liked the thrill of being so brazen under the bright lights???

Just pondering.
 
passionflower said:
My uneducated guess is they cleaned up right after they slaughtered NL. I would guess from neck wounds there would be lots of blood splurting. They went to Walmart next. So, I would say they had extra clothes and probably baby wipes. Allot of attention would be on them at Walmart if they were all bloody. It was cold...coat? gloves? dungarees? mechanic cover alls? by that pond where LE were searching?
one had to hold her while one stabbed? Did they both get her down and start stabbing? Was NL tied up? Just pray there was no torture! Heinous murder scene! EVIL........
Click to expand...
I know, it is so horrible and I just hope that Nicole didn't realize what was up until the very last moment; and I hope it went quickly. Awful to say, but the only grace note I see is that it hasn't been announced that Nicole was sexually assaulted, that would make it even worse, but it's bad enough as it is. :(
If NK is telling the truth and she wasn't present at the killing, maybe when DE called her he asked her to bring along a few things for clean up. But then they still would have had to go to Walmart to get more items.
 
passionflower said:
My uneducated guess is they cleaned up right after they slaughtered NL. I would guess from neck wounds there would be lots of blood splurting. They went to Walmart next. So, I would say they had extra clothes and probably baby wipes. Allot of attention would be on them at Walmart if they were all bloody. It was cold...coat? gloves? dungarees? mechanic cover alls? by that pond where LE were searching?
one had to hold her while one stabbed? Did they both get her down and start stabbing? Was NL tied up? Just pray there was no torture! Heinous murder scene! EVIL........
Click to expand...

I always love all your questions passionflower!

I think that when the full autopsy report is released, that some questions about what happened to NL may be answered...just hope that they make it public!

As far as the clean-up...it must have been a bloody gruesome mess. Someone had mentioned something about a rest area a while back...think it was JohnTate. Anyone familiar with that area that may be able to shed more light on that?
 
5Eyz said:
Well I haven't bothered to get verified or whatever but I'm retired LE from VA. It's expected that if you are asking routine questions if the answers veer in the direction of implicating the person speaking you will interrupt them to sign that old Miranda form. It's ridiculous that you have to break off in the middle of a statement but that's what you have to do. So if a smart detective has a tiny inkling the person they're talking to might make an incriminating statement you have them sign off before the conversation gets started. It's basically saying "You shouldn't talk, you don't have to talk, if you talk we will use it against you, do you want to talk now." Amazingly many people talk. I bet she had waived her rights in the field but they got her to do it again at the station in front of a video camera. I think they had their best investigators and the Commonwealth's Attorney was probably involved from the beginning. I just wonder why the news reported it that way. As tired as she looked in her booking photos she probably was being questioned for hours (Jan 30-31) before being booked in the wee hours of Jan 31. So maybe she told them where to find the body. I have a hard time believing a girl from MD knew where they were when they dumped the body. It was placed in DE's comfort zone. He knew the area. We'll find out next month (maybe).

But to really answer the question for ordinary questions they don't need to Mirandize if you are not a suspect.

edit: Sorry I haven't been on this board in a couple of days but, "Police only have to read you Miranda if you are under arrest." is not true. See above. If they have mere suspicion that you will make an incriminating statement they must Mirandize before asking a question other than name, address, etc. If they do not and you for instance lead them to a dead body there will be a fight about whether your statement will be thrown out. At the moment it veers into you being a person of interest they must read you your rights. Nowadays they have you sign a Miranda form. And video it if possible.
Click to expand...

5eyz I want to thank you for bringing something up that I hadn't considered before. I agree with you, I find it hard to believe that NK could give directions back to Nicoles body. It takes some time to learn this area. Route 89 is accessible several ways, all of them curvy and convoluted and in the pitch black of night. Very very good point.


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