GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #2

[Starry Night]

Tragically, certainly. Could it have been a hiding place that didn't hold up that may have been overlooked?

Yes certainly.

 

[FindHG]

It had to have been a deliberate act by himself or someone else

You mean little Noah either went there alone, with somebody else, or was taken there and thrown in? I think the medical examiner would have some answers. His parents' cooperation and reactions as reported according to LE don't seem suspect, in the least, to me. My heart goes out to them.

 

[YidArmyRach]

Tragically, certainly. Could it have been a hiding place that didn't hold up that may have been overlooked?

If LE didn't search it for days, surely that suggests they didn't know it was there - so it can't have been easily visible, if they searched many times and didn't find it. If that is the case, how on earth did Noah find it?

The landlord lives on site - so surely he would have known it was there, and suggested that LE look there - so why didn't they?

If the landlord was unaware of it, how on earth did Noah find it so easily and quickly?

If parents didn't alert the LE to the fact it was there, that would suggest either they didn't know it was there ...... or they didn't want anyone else knowing it was there.

If none of the above are true, that only leaves the idea that everyone was aware there was a septic tank, and LE didn't think it was a priority to look there - or is there another answer?

 

[FindHG]

If LE didn't search it for days, surely that suggests they didn't know it was there - so it can't have been easily visible, if they searched many times and didn't find it. If that is the case, how on earth did Noah find it?

The landlord lives on site - so surely he would have known it was there, and suggested that LE look there - so why didn't they?

If the landlord was unaware of it, how on earth did Noah find it so easily and quickly?

If parents didn't alert the LE to the fact it was there, that would suggest either they didn't know it was there ...... or they didn't want anyone else knowing it was there.

If none of the above are true, that only leaves the idea that everyone was aware there was a septic tank, and LE didn't think it was a priority to look there - or is there another answer?

Answers, and I imagine, another set of questions all together once the autopsy is done. Nice thinking, thank you for sharing it.

 

[A-Christie]

Not necessarily... we recently bought a 1930's bungalow and the county has no record of where the septic tank is located. We ended up hiring someone to dig until he found it. Even the old timer's in the neighborhood and the 60+ year old man that grew up in this house had no idea where it was located... no one remembers it ever being cleaned out and boy oh boy did it need to be cleaned out! It was found about 6' from the rear wall of the house.

 

[FindHG]

http://www.wdbj7.com/video/livestreaming

Just reported in their 5 am report that some LE slept in their cars throughout the search and had to be asked to go home to rest, as well as the sadness that has befallen a community so committed to trying to find little Noah.

Photos of Search

Sheriff: Noah Thomas' body sent to medical examiners' office in Roanoke
Authorities say parents are still cooperating with investigators.
By Cameron Austin, The Roanoke Times 5:13 pm, Thu Mar 26, '15

[...]

“The parents continue to cooperate with authorities during this tragic time,” Davis said, reiterating his previous comments on the parents’ willingness to assist in the investigation.

[...]

A neighbor who lives down the street from the Thomases said that he’s lived in the neighborhood 30 years and said that every house has a septic tank. Almost all of the septic tanks on the street are 4 to 5 feet underground.

[...]

Now that Noah’s body has been found, it is unclear how the investigation will proceed.

Same story here:

http://www.richmond.com/news/local/...cle_7a4d27bd-6c53-56b6-89ad-18a0043087d7.html

 

[Donjeta]

If LE didn't search it for days, surely that suggests they didn't know it was there - so it can't have been easily visible, if they searched many times and didn't find it. If that is the case, how on earth did Noah find it?

The landlord lives on site - so surely he would have known it was there, and suggested that LE look there - so why didn't they?

If the landlord was unaware of it, how on earth did Noah find it so easily and quickly?

If parents didn't alert the LE to the fact it was there, that would suggest either they didn't know it was there ...... or they didn't want anyone else knowing it was there.

If none of the above are true, that only leaves the idea that everyone was aware there was a septic tank, and LE didn't think it was a priority to look there - or is there another answer?

How do you know how easily and quickly Noah found the tank (if he did?) He must have played in that yard many times before and could have noticed it at any time.
Children sometimes pay attention to things a little differently from adults.

 

[YidArmyRach]

How do you know how easily and quickly Noah found the tank (if he did?) He must have played in that yard many times before and could have noticed it at any time.
Children sometimes pay attention to things a little differently from adults.

The quote was: "If the landlord was unaware of it, how on earth did Noah find it so easily and quickly?"

What I meant was - if the landlord, who had presumably owned and/or lived at the property for many years didn't ever find it - then a 5 year old discovering it, is pretty quick .... as he would have found it within a few years of living there, compared to if it hadn't been found for, perhaps, decades before.

If Noah had previously found it, then there must have been signs that it was there? Unless nobody ever supervised him outside, or checked that the area was safe regularly? I don't know, but I know every inch of my garden. Its only 100 foot long x 50 foot wide though. If it was any bigger and not fenced in, I'm not sure I'd let my children out without supervision.

All assumptions though. I'm just trying to get my head around how a 5 year old can end up in a septic tank and remain there for days despite LE searches and a number of adults presumably knowing it was there.

 

[SuzDuJour]

Did mom know he had the jacket on when she gave his description? Or did she notice it was missing, too? Because if she saw he had it on, wouldn't she know he was going outside?

 

[FindHG]

http://www.wdbj7.com/video/livestreaming paraphrasing

Expect next update at 8 am. Parents still very cooperative with LE, coming & going freely, and have been constantly monitored due to circumstances.

 

[wendybtn]

I guess it would depend on the COD. If he died b/c of an accident that didn't have anything to do with the septic tank and the mother put him there to hide him, it could be abuse of a corpse. If the autopsy shows that Noah did in fact die by drowning in the septic tank then it would probably be manslaughter. I don't believe she set out to kill her son so I can't believe murder

But if it were accidental death outside the tank, and the tank is covered, I just don't want to believe that location would pop into a parents mind as suitable to hide his body. And I'm still not ready to believe the parents did this.

JMO

Somehow, as DH and I discussed it, I said I would never think about hiding anyone or thing in there. It is gross, smelly, and with the lids and covers he described to me, I doubt I could move them. To me it is a place a male might be more likely to hide something, IMO.

 

[wendybtn]

After some googling I came across at least 2 cases where the bodies of adult men were disposed of in septic tanks. So apparently there are septic tanks that have sizeable accessible manholes (I hate that word).

There are municipal sewers and septic systems that adults can enter to work in, also.

 

[tiredblondy]

I can only add my latest experience with septic tanks. Due to a recent plumbing problem we had to have the septic tank cleaned out. Once the septic tank was found and the cover was uncovered we found out that the cover was a piece of concrete approximately 3ft by 4ft. It had to be lifted and wedged open so the septic tank pump pipe could get in and pump it out.

When the job was finished they asked me if I wanted a manhole put on it so we did not have to struggle with the lid the next time. I decided to go ahead and get it . It was a large round pipe with a manhole cover on top. It's approximately 3 ft long and if opened it is large enough for a small person to fall in. I'm going to have to get a lock for it or get the safety device for it. These are relatively new (I think). I've included a link to show you all what I'm talking about. I hope it helps.

http://www.thefind.com/garden/info-septic-tank-risers"" (scroll down and you will see a child standing on one like I have now)

If Noah found something like this I can totally understand how he fell in. However if it's all underground then I don't understand.

 

[FindHG]

Body of missing Va. boy found in septic tank
WUSA9, 5:29 am edt Mar 27, '15

Alison Parker reported this morning, paraphrasing: All quiet at the scene, according to live report at 6 am, reviewed and emphasized previous information and news of prayer vigils planned on SM.
http://www.wdbj7.com/video/livestreaming

 

[RohrbachJL]

Did mom know he had the jacket on when she gave his description? Or did she notice it was missing, too? Because if she saw he had it on, wouldn't she know he was going outside?

Technically, we don't know that he was wearing a coat. Mom reported that he was wearing a coat and boots. Hypothetically, (because no one has been charged) if one or both parents are responsible for his death and put him in the septic tank, they could have dropped those items in with him to make it look like he'd been outside of the home when 'whatever' occurred. Everything we have heard is heresay that was told to the police by other people. Mom reported (truthfully or not) that he was wearing these items, watching tv, when she last saw him. It's simply mom's word, at this point. No one else saw anything.

 

[AnnaGrace]

It looks like the presser has been changed to 10:00 am on WDBJ7.

 

[blazelet]

There's a press conference at 10a. WDBJ7 will be streaming it live on their site.

 

[AnnaGrace]

I was awake most of the night, no doubt like most who are following this, trying to wrap my head around how this could have happened. If the lid was off the septic, or if there was any fresh digging that would have been one of the first places searched, IMO. I wonder too, if a tip was given to LE to search there? One side of me hopes this was indeed an accident, while the other side hopes he was already deceased before. I hate to think about him being alive in a septic tank. It looks like the houses are close together there too. Neighbors all across the road and the house that sits really close to Noah's home, it seems like someone would have seen or heard something. It looks like the septic tank is between the two houses, in the pics?

 

[laura08]

I've seen people saying that LE did search the septic tank the first day. Are there any news article that suggests that's true?

 

[JeannaT]

The find Noah facebook page has been updated with a "fly high" Noah picture, beautiful. I wish they had help editing out hateful comments.

Reminds me of that Shirley Jackson short story, "The Lottery" where the town gathers to draw a name out of the hat of someone to stone to death. And for no reason at all, the town turns against the victim and everyone viciously attacks them, people who before were standing around chatting idly.

Human nature, I guess, that some people really love being cruel.