GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #2

[maureen718]

I just keep wondering what that morning was like, was Noah awake and walk to the car to take daddy to work? or was he carried to the car still sleeping and put in his carseat? was baby awake? baby could be sleeping the whole time, taken to the car asleep and sleep in the car. Mommy and Daddy are awake safe to say right? daddy is dropped off at work,who drives the car to work? mommy drives home, does she stop anywhere? Is Noah awake on the ride home? did he fall asleep in the car? is he chatting away? when they get home do they eat? Is baby awake now? how active was Noah? was he full from eating and kinda sleepy wake watching cartoons? how was mommy napping? was baby on her chest? in a crib? in the same room? exactly how much time goes by?

 

[they'll get you]

STEEL SEPTIC TANKS - Life Expectancy, What Breaks, What to Look For, How to Fix a Damaged or Leaky Steel Septic Tank or Tank Cover or Baffle


Steel septic tanks typically last 20-25 years, then rust, and collapse.

Before this time steel baffles may rust off (damaging the drain field with sludge), the tank top may become rusty and unsafe, or the tank bottom may have rusted through.

You can see the steel septic tank baffle in the lower left of this photo - notice that the top edges of the baffle have rusted away?

In the photo shown here the steel septic tank cover had rusted through and was covered with brush and about two inches of soil.

http://inspectapedia.com/septic/Steel_Septic_Tanks.htm

http://trulygreensepticservices.com

About an 18 inch hole was created when the lid of this old septic tank rotted away and collapsed in this yard. A pet, child or adult could have fallen into this hole and drowned in the septic tank

 

[winterrose]

I'm not sure we'll hear anymore from the Sheriff till Monday. I've thought maybe he wants to give more time for someone to speak up, or confess, because I really feel that tip person is a key. It can't be someone called in a tip just saying they saw him playing around the tank before. The police cars driving fast to the scene, maybe someone knows more.

 

[maureen718]

I think the tip was specific and I don't think much time went by from the time they got it and them racing to the scene. They called a septic pump out truck to the house at the same time. seems like they knew he was in there, the crime scene tape went up immediately.

 

[perfectingpink]

I have to say I was initially appalled the parents did participate in due diligence concerning the septic tank. My initial reaction was, "How can a parent not know about the tank and make sure it was child proof? It is a parents job to scout out these things!" Then...reality hit me...HARD. I am the person who warns their children, husband, really anyone I love of perceived dangers. BUT, I missed something huge. I just realized we had a septic tank at our cabin. My husband played there as a child, our children played there too for at least 18 years. Not ONCE, NOT ONCE did it occur to me my children could have been in danger. I knew there was a septic system. I knew it had to be drained at some point, but I TRUSTED it was safe. I told my husband about this case and questioned him about the tank at the cabin and thank God it was never a danger to our children, but what if it was? I am never one to assume anything and have never dealt with a septic tank, yet I assumed it was safe and I never even thought anything about it.

I am not convinced yet because of the info my husband gave me about how difficult it is to access the space wide enough for a child to fit through, but I do get the not being aware. I feel like I should get the "Crappy Parent Award" for my trust in USA standards.

 

[they'll get you]

In Australia a septic system has to be registered by local councils who then check the age, cracks and absorption trench/drainage of the tank.
I wonder if council had warned them to repair a damaged tank and is that where the tip came from if the police were making some inquiries about the property.

It appears our septic tank designs are similar to yours in America. The older concrete ones are about 4' deep and have a smaller inspection lid which a child the age of Noah could easily fall into if it's not secured. Being a circular lid I wonder if it was stepped on it could actually rotate or flip and Noah fell in.
Also the absorption trenches are filled with shale/rubble and if not built properly can subside and even collapse in over time, especially if it's on a decline. When it rained that area would become really water logged which again could be a danger to a youngster.
Was there a lot of rain around the time Noah 'fell' in?
Just kickin' around some thoughts here.

 

[cluciano63]

By waiting until Monday, LE is causing 2-3 more days of wild speculation, which he claims he does not want, Imo.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

That was me. My boyfriend actually contacted me from the road when he caught sight of them. He saw cars flying from Pulaski to Dublin shortly after 1 pm. He counted six cars: cruiser, unmarked, cruiser, SUV, cruiser, cruiser. Lights and sirens were going.

Immediately I started checking WDBJ7 and the local community college site; he was worried it might be another incident of school violence, given past incidents at the CC (and living in the shadow of Virginia Tech). Later, we received confirmation of an increase in activity at Highland Road and that crimescene tape had gone up.

Thank you so much for confirming this. I was dreading going back through the threads to look for it if someone asked. Talk about a visual....

 

[deugirtni]

In regard to having the other children in the home removed.. you are correct.. except that,
i)we don't know if tht baby *has* already been removed;
ii)they would have to be willing to let the parents know they were onto them in a large way, and they may not yet be at that point?;
iii)what if the baby is still breastfeeding, would they still remove in a case such as this, where no arrests have yet been made?
iv)what if what LE really suspects, is the dad? would they then remove the possibly breastfeeding baby from the mom, who could be innocent?
v)they must remove a child if the child is suspected to be at risk; depending on what their theory is, they may not believe the baby is at risk?

I'm having a *lot* of trouble myself, accepting the 'accident' theory in this case... even though there are news stories in existence of this happening to other children; in the cases where this *has* happened to other children, how long did it take to discover that the child had fallen in? I will have to look into that. Wouldn't there be signs that this had occurred here, signs which would surely have been visible on that first day when police were actually searching the property? I wold love to know about... were there screws holding the lid down? was the lid securely in place, or just resting on top? was it 'perfectly' resting on top? was there no smell coming out of that opening which could have alerted officers that someone had tampered with it? no footprints leading over to that area, in the taller grass? no scents of him walking there for the dogs?

Don't blame WS for your thoughts.. because it isn't WS that is causing you to think the way you do, it is simply fact that most things do seem to actually happen close to 'home', where there are emotions, and people committing crimes of passion, even sometimes by mistake. WS is only the vehicle for examination and discussion of those cases for people like us who want to know *more*.

I really hope that the last sentence is not true too. Let us hope that if true, it *will* be discovered. If true... I think that would have to mean there was premeditation, as opposed to an act of sudden rage?

The only thing keeping me on the fence of this being an accident, or another child being involved/knowing what happened, is the fact as far as we know the parents still have custody of their other baby AFAIK. I do think that there is a chance this could be an accident, but some things give me pause. I blame that on WS, because so many cases with these babies involve parents.

My biggest thing is if he was put in there alive, on purpose, it would never come to light, it would look like an accident unless there was a confession. And that is possibly the worst sentenxe I have ever had to type out on webslueths...breaks my heart to think about that.

 

[ami]

Yes, very strange. Usually parents are plastered all over media to gain sympathy, rally the troops as they say...

You know, even if the parents want to grieve in private or are shy to be out in front of the camera....someone surely has told them it looks bad to be hidden away and there are other options: they could write a statement that's released, in their own words...they could send a relative to speak for them who doesn't mind being in the spotlight, etc. So many options.

I'll never forget reading John Walsh's take on this. He has experienced this - we haven't. His take was that it is the public who craves seeing the grief of the parents, and his wife Reve would put her face out there in order to keep Adam's story in the news, as the reporters shouted gruesome things about her missing son so that she would vomit and they could take close up pictures. Sharon Rocha describing how she did not want to be on camera and the family all shirking the responsibility of it so she was all that was left, even though it half killed her to do it. Think about why you guys want to see that kind of grief *advertiser censored* and demand it of the parents. Since I don't know what it feels like to be in that position, I listen to the people who have been there and they describe that process as horrific. It disgusts me when a child is killed and people immediately judge the appearance of the griefstricken on camera. I also think about Terri Horman who looked thrilled to put on a grief show for the cameras. It's all so disgusting.

 

[blue22]

By waiting until Monday, LE is causing 2-3 more days of wild speculation, which he claims he does not want, Imo.

LE does not owe us any information. It is not their job to satiate our want for information. They have a body, they have an autopsy, they are not the only law enforcement involved. Don't you think an investigation involving the FBI a d other agencies, is probably quiet for a reason? I don't think they really give a flip right now what anyone is thinking.

 

[matou]

In the report with the interview with the septic tank technician, the reporter asked whether LE had already searched the septic tank. The response was that "information was not conveyed to me and that is part of the investigation."

So do they know or won't release the info for some reason?

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/sanitation-technician-describes-discovery-of-noah-thomas/32052894

 

[iamnotagolem]

LE does not owe us any information. It is not their job to satiate our want for information. They have a body, they have an autopsy, they are not the only law enforcement involved. Don't you think an investigation involving the FBI a d other agencies, is probably quiet for a reason? I don't think they really give a flip right now what anyone is thinking.

While I agree they don't owe the public any info right now (unless a stranger abducted and murdered NOAH and is on the loose which seems highly unlikely) the part I bolded does seem to be a big concern. He has mentioned rumors in nearly every presser and seems like a huge focus for him for whatever reason. So for that reason only im surprised he isn't providing more info.

 

[JeannaT]

I'll never forget reading John Walsh's take on this. He has experienced this - we haven't. His take was that it is the public who craves seeing the grief of the parents, and his wife Reve would put her face out there in order to keep Adam's story in the news, as the reporters shouted gruesome things about her missing son so that she would vomit and they could take close up pictures. Sharon Rocha describing how she did not want to be on camera and the family all shirking the responsibility of it so she was all that was left, even though it half killed her to do it. Think about why you guys want to see that kind of grief *advertiser censored* and demand it of the parents. Since I don't know what it feels like to be in that position, I listen to the people who have been there and they describe that process as horrific. It disgusts me when a child is killed and people immediately judge the appearance of the griefstricken on camera. I also think about Terri Horman who looked thrilled to put on a grief show for the cameras. It's all so disgusting.

Grief *advertiser censored*. I absolutely LOVE that term. That's exactly what it is. The thing is, if it helped bring kids back I'd say well just get up there and get through it. It doesn't help. All it helps is to give grief *advertiser censored* addicts a fix. The public wants to see sobbing parents begging for their babies. And the media is right there ready to sell it to the buyers.

 

[poppygirl]

I'll never forget reading John Walsh's take on this. He has experienced this - we haven't. His take was that it is the public who craves seeing the grief of the parents, and his wife Reve would put her face out there in order to keep Adam's story in the news, as the reporters shouted gruesome things about her missing son so that she would vomit and they could take close up pictures. Sharon Rocha describing how she did not want to be on camera and the family all shirking the responsibility of it so she was all that was left, even though it half killed her to do it. Think about why you guys want to see that kind of grief *advertiser censored* and demand it of the parents. Since I don't know what it feels like to be in that position, I listen to the people who have been there and they describe that process as horrific. It disgusts me when a child is killed and people immediately judge the appearance of the griefstricken on camera. I also think about Terri Horman who looked thrilled to put on a grief show for the cameras. It's all so disgusting.

Very well said. I have never understood 'the public's' need to see grieving family or hear from them.



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[JeannaT]

I haven't seen anyone being disrespectful to imply others are "ignorant and deserve to be derided and laughed at". If anyone posts the like, please feel free to click on the little triangle with ! on the lower left of the offensive post and a mod will gladly take care of the situation.

We can agree to disagree, but I will ask what is a new mother to do if she has no help and maybe her baby was up all night? If Dad had to rest the night before in order to work all day then most likely a new mom would be on her own. New mothers have to sleep sometime. New babies are not known for sleeping all night and being an easy adjustment in a family. What is your solution to this common problem?

It is a problem, and it is common, but I guess the answer is she can't sleep. If it is a life critical thing - like, she literally hasn't been able to sleep in 48 hours, it's time to call in help. This is why being good parents is so very very hard - you can't sleep while you have children up and running around that age. Maybe the silver lining here, as with all tragedies, is this serves as a cautionary tale. Like when children die in hot cars, the subject comes up how to prevent that. And now it's being discussed whether moms can take long naps with a 5 year old in their sole care. My guess is, this conversation is going on a LOT of places whether it's appropriate to leave a 5 year old unsupervised for 2 hours. And this conversation will continue if it's found that it is exactly as the mother said - she was sleeping, and didn't know what happened to him and her curious child fell down a septic tank and drowned - and at that point, whether charges of parental neglect are appropriate which will stir further more focused debate on whether it's okay for the parents in charge to nap. So I think this conversation will grow and grow through this tragedy.

 

[YidArmyRach]

Very well said. I have never understood 'the public's' need to see grieving family or hear from them.



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Personally I don't believe that any parental appeal to a potential kidnapper would make the suspect hand back the child. However, I do believe that it might affect somebody who was perhaps covering up for someone, or holding back information if they suspected someone in their family.

I would like to believe that if I suspected one of my family were involved in a crime, I would contact the police immediately. However, I can imagine it would be a hard thing to do - so seeing an appeal by parents, and putting myself in their position, I do think it would make a difference. Maybe if someone was unsure whether to go to the police or not, that appeal might be the thing that pushed them in the right direction.

However I do agree with you that no parent needs to go on tv to satisfy anyone's curiosity.

 

[matou]

I don't remember seeing this info before:

Since Sunday, the family's house had been searched and the immediate surrounding area at least three times with nothing suspicious found.
“We have never ruled out that Noah could have been abducted,” Davis said during the news conference. “We can only hope and pray that if Noah has been abducted, he is taken care of.”
The family has been subject to public questions since no member has made any public statement since the investigation has begun. Davis would not comment on if a polygraph test had been administered to Noah's parents, but he said that the family has “sought legal advice." He said a lawyer was not present during questioning of the parents.

http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/article_9748fee0-d3ef-11e4-abf4-577cf6908e85.html

 

[SStarr33]

I'll never forget reading John Walsh's take on this. He has experienced this - we haven't. His take was that it is the public who craves seeing the grief of the parents, and his wife Reve would put her face out there in order to keep Adam's story in the news, as the reporters shouted gruesome things about her missing son so that she would vomit and they could take close up pictures. Sharon Rocha describing how she did not want to be on camera and the family all shirking the responsibility of it so she was all that was left, even though it half killed her to do it. Think about why you guys want to see that kind of grief *advertiser censored* and demand it of the parents. Since I don't know what it feels like to be in that position, I listen to the people who have been there and they describe that process as horrific. It disgusts me when a child is killed and people immediately judge the appearance of the griefstricken on camera. I also think about Terri Horman who looked thrilled to put on a grief show for the cameras. It's all so disgusting.

Thanks button is not enough. So sick of the self righteous grief trolls.

 

[cvillemegan]

I used to be a reporter and covered rural areas (not SW Virginia, though). These days, media outlets have fewer reporters with dwindling budgets and owners whose #1 goal is to make money, not cover the news accurately and fairly. When they're down reporters, the first thing to go is the coverage of the rural areas, where a more routine local story isn't going to get nearly as many clicks as it would in the more populated areas. So the reporters aren't in that area frequently, building sources who would give them information or help get them in with the parents.

Combine this possible lack of familiarity with the area on the part of the reporters with the natural distrust of the media that many people have. The reporters aren't from the area, they don't talk like the people from the area do, and they're asking asinine questions like, "What went through your head when you realized your child was gone?" The parents are out of their minds with grief, and their reaction is, get off our property and leave us alone. It doesn't necessarily enter their heads that more media attention could help. I covered stories where people hung up on me and let their dogs threaten me out of the yard, then complained about the lack of continued coverage. It never occurred to them that we couldn't just keep re-printing the 2-sentence statement from LE.

As far as the "local force," comment, my first interpretation is that it's an indication the Sheriff's Office has had to go to the home before, possibly because of allegations of domestic abuse or child abuse or neglect. But it could have just been a poorly-worded way of saying, yeah, it's a small town, one of my deputies' kids goes to school with him, and I go to church with the family, and another deputy coaches his basketball team in his spare time, etc. I have a friend who is a lawyer, and he told me in one small county, they almost couldn't find a jury who didn't know the prosecutor personally.