GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #3

[oceanblueeyes]

Just went over and read through. Thanks for posting. That is certainly a heartbreaking case and I can see where someone might draw similarities to Noah's case, but I respectfully disagree that they are comparable (based on the limited info we have re: Noah's mothers actions that morning).

Jassiah Clark's mother allowed him to go outside and play in the street where they knew that hole was. She failed to report him missing for hours and lied to investigators when she did. Was he even sent outside to play? The neighbors say they never say him that day. From his COD, it sounds his death may have been prevented if he had been found sooner? (Do I understand correctly that he died of accidental drowning with hypothermia - so he fell in, and drown once hypothermia set in?)

From the info we have about Noah's mother, (granted, it is very limited) I would not but her even in the same ball park as Jassiah Clarks mother.

That said, it is a good comparison, IMO, for understanding what DOES equate to a negligent homicide charge.

A lot of the cases I have read about when a child goes missing the child gets up in the middle of the night and wanders outside and gets lost. Some die from the severe cold or heat or fall into water. So even if parents are sleeping normal sleeping hours it can and has happened to them.

 

[mpnola]

One thing that has been on my brain and I keep forgetting to bring it up- I do think it is quite opposite to have a child who is allowed to be outside with no supervision but to claim that he is not the type of child to go out by himself. I did not expect so many people to know him well from him being out alone, considering that first statement of his personality.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Ok gotta a question

If dogs tracked Noah to the road (don't know if side road to mobile home or main road)!

Wouldn't same dogs track him to the septic tank if he was walking to It?


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I'm no expert, but the area around the house sustained extremely heavy foot traffic prior to the dogs being used. From what I understand (which could be wrong) that can effect the dog's ability to track.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I wondered if the saw the body then clothes in with it, and didn't want to reveal anymore on it due to the fact he'd be giving a lot of info by saying that he was found naked. However you could be right on with it. I could be wrong.

From what the septic tank guy said ..........he could see his clothing. I think he was clothed when found.

 

[cluciano63]

I think the VI is Courtny? A former neighbor who shared the same patch of land with Noah's family? She said Noah was often unattended, playing outside. I think she said she never even met his mom?

 

[ANonyMs]

Well, I missed that myself. Who is the verified insider?

We do not have a verified insider, however, courtneyb has a specific second hand knowledge (her cousin formerly lived in the white house on the same property in front of Noah's house and knew Noah previously). The Mods allowed her to post specific kinds of information and she graciously answered a lot of questions, provided photos, etc. If you search all three threads, there is some enlightening information from her.

 

[epiphany]

I hate to veer off too far from topic, but it seems after a generation of helicopter parenting, the pendulum of thought is turning the other way.

I was reading an article a couple days ago about letting your children take their own risks, ride their bicycles to friend's houses, explore in the woods behind the house, etc. The way kids, until this past generation, have always been raised.

And there was a quote from someone on the Austin School Board - about get out of your kid's classroom. This is your kid's work, your kid's homework, your kid's friends, your kids have to find their way and learn to manage their lives for themselves. Quit checking their homework assignments and grades online every day. Quit micromanaging their friendships with classmates. Quit walking your 4th grader to the bus stop 5 houses down.

It's a compelling point, to me. Seeing how this last generation has such trouble doing for themselves and how so many are living with mom and dad still in their late 20's.

There is a saying - your kid's lives will be made much easier not by what you do for them, but by what you make them learn to do for themselves. So true.

Anyway, I'm not trying to start an argument, just musing. I think kids do better in general - as a whole population - when allowed to have to take care of themselves sometimes. Statistically abduction by strangers reached a peak in the 60's and is extremely, extremely rare.

Respectfully BBM...And then it was amazing to witness some of these very same helicopter parents not blink an eye once their children turned 13, 14, 15 and instead of staying involved, becoming actually more in tune to their preteen or teen, these same kids---who could not cross the street alone to pick up a quart of milk or go to school without an adult, or walk down the block without an adult, were free to experiment with alcohol, weed, and allowed to have their bedroom doors closed with mixed sex guests, sleep over homes without checking if an adult would be in the home etc.

Often disastrous results...

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Ok gotta a question

If dogs tracked Noah to the road (don't know if side road to mobile home or main road)!

Wouldn't same dogs track him to the septic tank if he was walking to It?


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No one said they didn't. Noah's scent would be all over the yard that morning if he was out walking around, but they got it right that he did not leave the yard.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Here is an article that just happened this week.

A 4 year old girl rides the bus in PA to go buy a slushie. It was 3am in the morning.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/4-year-old-takes-3-a-m-bus-ride-to-buy-slushie/

 

[WillenFan21]

From what the septic tank guy said ..........he could see his clothing. I think he was clothed when found.

Yeah that probably is it. I just wasn't sure if he meant he saw the boy and then the clothes. I hope they find out who did this.

 

[courtneyb]

If the septic tank lid was covered with grass/sod and didn't show signs of tampering I'm sure they didn't look. The first few days of the search they were trying to cover as much ground as possible so hopefully they could find Noah alive. I don't see a problem with this.

JMO

I can see where it's a problem if the grass/sod was covering it during the first search if this was an accident. I think people have posted that the lid could fall back in place and even cited examples. But if it was covered in grass and sod the first search day, then that's a problem. Sod and grass don't move back into place over a septic tank lid, unless I'm missing something.

And, this is not directed toward you AT all, and I apologize for attaching it with your comment quoted, but some posters seem to be being argumentative just for the sake of arguing. It's fine to have differing opinions, and to post to support them, but, 3 times today, someone has jumped on a typo or a slight misuse of a word and attacked, in a most snarky way. And I'm not talking about anyone doing it to me. That's not cool and not what I think we are about here. Let's all be nice, mmmkay?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't think a generation or two ago, this would be called negligence - sleeping 2.5 hours while your 5 year old amuses himself.

We now think of it that way, and I agree, I do too. But this standard of constant vigilance is new. A generation ago and before 5 year olds were expected to walk alone miles to school, to go to neighbor friends homes and back by themselves several blocks away, play outside all day and come home for supper, walk a couple miles to the nearest store and buy themselves candy alone or with a couple friends, etc.

The way I was raised would be considered neglectful now - and actually I'm kind of shocked we all lived to tell the tale. I was raised on an air force base where "benign neglect" was actually quite common. Kids have a strong will to survive and so usually they do.

But you can't help falling into a septic tank. Once you fall, no amount of self-preservation can save you. It's a blink of an eye kind of thing and irrecoverable.

And IF...IF this does turnout to be an accident it shows Noah knew not to leave his own yard.

 

[SStarr33]

We do not have a verified insider, however, courtneyb has a specific second hand knowledge (her cousin formerly lived in the white house on the same property in front of Noah's house and knew Noah previously). The Mods allowed her to post specific kinds of information and she graciously answered a lot of questions, provided photos, etc. If you search all three threads, there is some enlightening information from her.

Thank you, I will do that.

 

[wendybtn]

Much earlier in this discussion - days ago - I posted something from 1979 - a first grade readiness checklist. At 6, this said, is your child able to navigate the neighborhood independently and find their way back home several blocks away. I forget what school district it was, but back in 1979, it was expected as a developmental milestone that kids venture out alone and get themselves back home successfully.

I thought that was interesting.

Now if your kid can do that, you get arrested.

 

[cluciano63]

The thing is, LE did not know what they had in Noah's disappearance and should have been open to everything, including murder, by at least day two. So septic tank should have been checked as a matter of course, whether it looked disturbed or not. It is one of the places kids have ended up before. Jmo

 

[beach]

Hi there! Just dropping in to post this reminder ---

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[Ms Suzanne]

Ok gotta a question

If dogs tracked Noah to the road (don't know if side road to mobile home or main road)!

Wouldn't same dogs track him to the septic tank if he was walking to It?


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I agree.I have the same question.I really think dogs would have tracked him there too.That's why I'm so bothered about that and feel it was not an accident.

 

[kaen]

AS parents (or human beings), we are one poor choice away from an accident -- where we are hurt or someone else is hurt. It takes a second. The sneaking of a glance on your cell phone. The "decision" to not follow your kid in to the public restroom. Any scenario really. Criminal? Negligent? It is the other choices you have made along the way that might kick your choice into criminal or negligent.

I hope against hope that Noah's death was a tragic accident. I hope that his mom did not make a choice that cost him his life. I want to believe that if his parents did something that killed him they will be held accountable.

I love the conversation about how we raise healthy kids who can make the best choices possible. Awareness, love, forgiveness when a mistake is made, and an understanding that small mistakes can help you when the stakes are bigger.

Tonight, I am so sad that this boy won't ever get to the point where he can be independent, a dad or an astronaut. Like all children who die, this sucks.

 

[ANonyMs]

Here is an article that just happened this week.

A 4 year old girl rides the bus in PA to go buy a slushie. It was 3am in the morning.

And this one from a couple of weeks ago. 2 or 3 year old (was reported as different ages) walked in to a convenience store in the middle of the night to buy candy.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-girl-2-wanders-store-night-article-1.2156838

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I understood that to mean when he looked in, he saw clothing - as in, the jacket maybe? At the time there was speculation that he was wrapped in a plastic bag - and maybe he was trying to say he wasn't?

During the interview, he was reliving the moment. Not a pretty sight. I think he stopped there because he didn't want to talk about it. Too soon.