GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #3

[hisjerseygirl]

I've wondered about that. I remember reading in a news article, before Noah's body was found, that they were confined to the home. I wondered if that meant they were to distraught to leave or if they were under law enforcement supervision.

was the specific wording was "confined" to the home....?

 

[YidArmyRach]

For those who were asking how old Noah's baby sister is, according to the lady running the Help Find Missing Noah page, she's 8/9 months.

https://www.facebook.com/findmissingnoahthomas?fref=ts

 

[Meemaw12]

The lid was on, but was it secured with screws or bolts? That's what I'm wondering. Not being derogatory at all.

I agree completely

Guess not going to get definite answers to those questions

Just have to wait I reckon


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[AnnaGrace]

was the specific wording was "confined" to the home....?

I'm not sure of the exact wording. I've been trying to find the link with no luck so far. I'll keep looking.

 

[ANonyMs]

I've been reading about how septic tanks work, and here's something that I found interesting:


If you have too many solid objects in your septic tank, it can clog pumps and pipes. I seem to remember reading somewhere that this particular septic tank was shared by more than one family. What if the other house noticed a back-up of their pipes with sewage and that was the tip LE received.

Would the police automatically be aware of the property having a septic tank? Our water and waste goes straight into drains here and away to the plant that cleans the water and does whatever. Septic tanks aren't that common. Are they more common in the USA?

Here is a government fact sheet about septic tanks.
http://water.epa.gov/aboutow/owm/upload/2009_06_22_septics_septic_systems_factsheet.pdf

Yes, they are very common in the US. Keep in mind how large the US is and how very diverse our topography is. In many places, the state or local municipality has not engaged with a water/sewer company to run water lines and waste-water lines through the area connecting homes. There are many homes here that are in very rural locations, long distances from waste water treatment plants.
Some of these homes have both well water for their potable water and septic for their waste. Some have municiple water sources but still use septic for waste. In some locations, residents are given the choice to "tie in" to the municiple system (usually at a steep price) or use a septic system when the lines are installed in an area. Some local governments require people to tie in. (Just for understanding septics - there are several scenarios).

There are many different grades and designs of systems but they all work out in the end the same way. The type of system used is dictated by when it was installed, where it is being installed, the ground quality (sandy, clay, rocky, etc), how close it is to protected waterways (creeks and culverts that drain to streams and rivers, etc). The size is usually dictated by whether it will be for public or private use. For a residential home, it is usually based on the number of bedrooms in the home. Most localities count two people for each bedroom to calculate what the use of the system will be. In this instance, if the trailer and the house shared a system, it could be "grandfathered" in. I don't know which came first - the house or the trailer - but in many rural areas, people buy land, place a trailer on it and live in the trailer while they build a house or develop the land, then rent the trailer out.

Yes, in a county such as Pulaski, it would be reasonable for LE to know/assume whether there was a septic system there (especially given that the whole county is rural and neighbors have said everyone there is on septic). That doesn't mean they would know exactly where it is without going to the county records. The location (usually with a little hand drawn map of the property) and permits for the septic system should be on file with the county.

As for solid objects in the tank...the clogs that would back a system up in to a house usually happen in the line. The tank was quite large (in contrast to the size of a child being in it) and if it was not full, it wouldn't back the system up unless the child's body was blocking a pipe that flows in. It might have taken a few more days to back up, so to speak.

 

[hokie]

I'm not sure of the exact wording. I've been trying to find the link with no luck so far. I'll keep looking.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/p...cle_86971938-fb24-5957-9562-89fb1f087864.html

"While the parents’ movements are not being restricted, they are being monitored, Akers said. It is unclear at this time whether the family has hired a lawyer, but Akers speculated that they had been read their Miranda rights as part of the questioning process.

“Naturally in an investigation, you’re going to monitor the parents. That’s a natural part of the investigation,” Akers said. “We still 100 percent believe that Noah is alive.”

Later Wednesday, Akers clarified some comments he made during the news conference: The parents are “in no way being considered suspects,” he said, and the parents are being assisted in any way they need during this difficult time."

 

[Meemaw12]

@elenda100: @KSuri Was the cover secured is an important question.

@KSuri: @elenda100 asking that. Haven't gotten response


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[iamnotagolem]

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/p...cle_86971938-fb24-5957-9562-89fb1f087864.html

"While the parents’ movements are not being restricted, they are being monitored, Akers said. It is unclear at this time whether the family has hired a lawyer, but Akers speculated that they had been read their Miranda rights as part of the questioning process.

“Naturally in an investigation, you’re going to monitor the parents. That’s a natural part of the investigation,” Akers said. “We still 100 percent believe that Noah is alive.”

Later Wednesday, Akers clarified some comments he made during the news conference: The parents are “in no way being considered suspects,” he said, and the parents are being assisted in any way they need during this difficult time."

BUBM, This kills me. What made them believe 100% that Noah was alive? Clearly this wasn't the case, but if they though Noah wandered off by day 4 they had to have some doubts as to his being alive.

I had a dream about this case last night. I am going to have to take a break, but I'd really like to know how this little man lost his life before I step away. My heart aches for everyone who loved him.

 

[AnnaGrace]

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/p...cle_86971938-fb24-5957-9562-89fb1f087864.html

"While the parents’ movements are not being restricted, they are being monitored, Akers said. It is unclear at this time whether the family has hired a lawyer, but Akers speculated that they had been read their Miranda rights as part of the questioning process.

“Naturally in an investigation, you’re going to monitor the parents. That’s a natural part of the investigation,” Akers said. “We still 100 percent believe that Noah is alive.”

Later Wednesday, Akers clarified some comments he made during the news conference: The parents are “in no way being considered suspects,” he said, and the parents are being assisted in any way they need during this difficult time."

Thank you Hokie. That may be the report I was thinking of. I found a video too that says basically the same thing.

http://www.wdbj7.com/video/investigators-frustrated-with-search-for-noah-thomas/32005276

 

[tamora1]

*If* this is a case where charges of neglect/abuse/what-have-you are being considered, we may be seeing this unfold for some time.

Today I remembered a local case from last year. This is a really horrible one--the father abducted and abandoned a five-month-old. There's even a websleuths thread already up. Some things to keep in mind: 1) these people are in no way related to the Noah case, 2) the investigation also involved Pulaski Town LE, which isn't involved in Noah's case as he is outside town limits, and 3) it was widely known this was a case of deliberate endangerment, pretty much from the beginning.

So why bring up this sad story? I'm hoping it's helpful because it shows that the case will be taken seriously, as well as showing a timeline from discovery to charges. Both father AND mother were eventually charged, but the charges for the mother didn't come until almost two weeks after the child was reported missing. (And the mother's charges came as a surprise to most of the readers, the local PE being pretty closed-mouthed, even though this was also a relatively high-profile incident.) The deliberate pace, the slow release of information--it doesn't seem to be out of character, not for LE here.

 

[YidArmyRach]

@elenda100: @KSuri Was the cover secured is an important question.

@KSuri: @elenda100 asking that. Haven't gotten response


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I'm sure they have a good reason for not answering questions like this - but they might get a lot more help from the public if the facts are given. People might not even know they have relevant information if everything is kept under wraps.

I've just gone back and watched some news items about this case, with lots of film of the family home. Seeing cars drive past the house when the reporter was broadcasting makes me think someone would have seen something if Noah entered the tank in the daytime, as its a very open area and the road appears to pass right in front of the house. Had he been playing outside for at least some of that 2 - 3 hour window when mum was 'napping', surely someone would have seen him - from a neighbour to someone driving past?

Is it really possible that a child could get into that septic tank between 8.00am and 10.30am, in complete daylight, with nobody seeing or hearing a thing?

 

[themom]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but press conference at 5pm EST.

 

[hokie]

It's not a press conference. Just a press release being sent out.

 

[PeggyAnnMcKay]

Here is a government fact sheet about septic tanks.
http://water.epa.gov/aboutow/owm/upload/2009_06_22_septics_septic_systems_factsheet.pdf

Yes, they are very common in the US. Keep in mind how large the US is and how very diverse our topography is. In many places, the state or local municipality has not engaged with a water/sewer company to run water lines and waste-water lines through the area connecting homes. There are many homes here that are in very rural locations, long distances from waste water treatment plants.
Some of these homes have both well water for their potable water and septic for their waste. Some have municiple water sources but still use septic for waste. In some locations, residents are given the choice to "tie in" to the municiple system (usually at a steep price) or use a septic system when the lines are installed in an area. Some local governments require people to tie in. (Just for understanding septics - there are several scenarios).

There are many different grades and designs of systems but they all work out in the end the same way. The type of system used is dictated by when it was installed, where it is being installed, the ground quality (sandy, clay, rocky, etc), how close it is to protected waterways (creeks and culverts that drain to streams and rivers, etc). The size is usually dictated by whether it will be for public or private use. For a residential home, it is usually based on the number of bedrooms in the home. Most localities count two people for each bedroom to calculate what the use of the system will be. In this instance, if the trailer and the house shared a system, it could be "grandfathered" in. I don't know which came first - the house or the trailer - but in many rural areas, people buy land, place a trailer on it and live in the trailer while they build a house or develop the land, then rent the trailer out.

Yes, in a county such as Pulaski, it would be reasonable for LE to know/assume whether there was a septic system there (especially given that the whole county is rural and neighbors have said everyone there is on septic). That doesn't mean they would know exactly where it is without going to the county records. The location (usually with a little hand drawn map of the property) and permits for the septic system should be on file with the county.

As for solid objects in the tank...the clogs that would back a system up in to a house usually happen in the line. The tank was quite large (in contrast to the size of a child being in it) and if it was not full, it wouldn't back the system up unless the child's body was blocking a pipe that flows in. It might have taken a few more days to back up, so to speak.

BBM

Thank you ANonyMS for that explanation. I am definitely not fluent in septic and did not enjoy the research part of it at. all. That's exactly what I was wondering!

 

[Tillicum]

I hate to even type this but it keeps coming to my mind. It seems that Noah played outdoors a lot and anyone nearby would be aware that his mom wasn't normally out with him. Could this have been planned ahead? Sod loosened and bolts removed during the night, then make a grab in the morning, do whatever then a quick return to the property, lift sod and lid, place NT and replace lid and sod. I know it's not likely but it really bothers me that he played outside often (without an adult) and everyone seemed to know that.

 

[DeeMarie]

Was there ever more than one news source that mentioned Pokemon cards? I'm starting to feel like pokemon cards are one of those phantom things that is written about, but never holds any real significance or is brought up again.

It was on the poster for missing kids - the poster has been removed.
The description says he was last seen carrying a tin of Pokemon cards. I wonder if he was also FOUND with his Pokemon cards?

http://www.missingkids.com/poster/USVA/VA15-0671/1 Noah's missing poster
Missing Since:
Mar 22, 2015

Noah was last seen March 22, 2015. He was wearing a camouflage jacket, black and yellow pants, and Spiderman boots. He was carrying a tin of Pokemon cards.

 

[courtneyb]

The white house on the property is fairly close to the Thomas's mobile home, and the back room of that house is the laundry room; it's an extra large room with 3 large windows that give a direct view of the mobile home and septic tank area of the yard. The septic tank is actually closer to the white house than the mobile home, but was considered, "in Noah's yard". However, if the neighbors were asleep, or in the front of the house, or something, it's possible no one saw anything, never saw how Noah got in the septic tank. It happens all the time, where people disappear, or other things occur in somewhat busy areas and "no one saw anything."

 

[themom]

It's not a press conference. Just a press release being sent out.

Oops, thanks for the clarification!

 

[happy2bgrandma47]

I just saw a post on facebook where a lady said her husband died October 21,2014 his body was sent to the same medical examiners office as Noah
and she is waiting on the toxicology report,they told her it can take up to 6 months for the final autopsy to be released.

 

[DeeMarie]

It is not private--it is public according to the admin of the Noah FB page--they said they wanted to invite the public because they know so many have fallen in love with Noah and that they want to pay their respects.

The parents have not been to any public gatherings to celebrate their Noah. (candle lightings/balloons)

Will the parents be at the funeral? - or is this a public gathering without them and then they will have their private funeral.

They have been in hiding all this time - I can't fathom that they would attend a public funeral...that is just my 2cents..