GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #4

[Meemaw12]

” According to authorities, Noah, his infant sibling and his mother dropped Noah’s father off at work at Phoenix Packaging Operations in Dublin

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/p...d0b-0bc0-5e3f-af68-6b13023d6226.html?mode=jqm


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Lovepink]

Yes. That's true. When people are arrested and booked, they get a mug shot. However, traffic misdemeanors such as this are typically not arrestable offenses. It's a ticket. Which made me think that he must have been arrested for something more serious. But I believe you if you say that people are arrested in VA for driving without a license. pretty harsh though!!!



The bit about a "hard, credible tip" was the one thing that had me believing this was more than a tired mom napping while her five year old watched cartoons. But now we hear there was no tip at all? Odd. So they just finally decided to drain the septic tank? What was the purpose of that statement about the hard, credible tip then?

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, my phone died lol. It is really harsh, they actually come before the magistrate and get a warrant issued. VA doesn't play with a lot of traffic offenses. Even reckless driving can land you in jail. A big issue in our legal system is people lose their license for various reasons, then drive because hey our public transportation sucks, get arrested for driving on a suspended, and it happens over and over. Fines add up, jail time adds up, people lose their jobs, etc. I'm not saying people aren't responsible for their own actions, they are. It just feels exceedingly harsh at times especially for people who can't afford to pay the fines. I could go on and on, but I won't since it's off topic.

 

[gitana1]

I wonder if the injuries have to be intentionally delivered?

They do not. Here's the pertinent part of the code: "Any parent, guardian, or other person responsible for the care of a child under the age of 18 who by willful act or omission or refusal to provide any necessary care for the child's health causes or permits serious injury to the life or health of such child shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony." https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-371.1

I have an uncle that has been arrested 8 times for driving without a license in VA (one county south of Noah) and he has 8 mugshots to show for it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The second offense of driving without a license is a greater charge. It would make sense that a person is arrested after doing so multiple times. But not the first time. I think VA is very strict compared to other states with that.

I'm not defending the parents, I absolutely think at this point they are responsible. However, I think if he fell in by himself, there would be evidence of drowning that would have been obvious to the medical examiner upon the initial autopsy. That leaves someone placing him in the tank after he was deceased. (I hate typing that) Even though LE believes that Noah was killed and placed (someone tried to hide him) in the septic tank, they need proof of who that person was before charging that person (or in this case, I believe two people) That evidence may be what they are hoping to find with the additional autopsy results.

You make sense and it is no defense because Noah could've died from something worse than drowning before being placed in that tank.

I didn't buy the exhausted mum napping from the start. Not when it was reported that she was exhausted from working nights, yet the paper reported that the family were out Saturday night. Firstly, if you were that exhausted that you needed to sleep for hours when solely responsible for looking after 2 children, wouldn't you sleep Saturday night rather than go out? Especially if you had to get up early Sunday morning to drop your partner to work for 7.00am. The whole timeline didn't sound right from the start.

Taken from: http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/p...cle_86971938-fb24-5957-9562-89fb1f087864.html So, not even someone from Dad's place of work could confirm the family dropping him off?

Then there were the clothes - Noah went missing on Sunday morning wearing exactly the same clothes as he had worn on the Saturday night, right down to the coat and boots. Just made me think that Saturday night was the time that was important, not Sunday morning. Yes, children can wear the same clothes two days running, but it just seemed too convenient to me.

Well yeah, that info. would tend to change things. Going out and not sleeping Saturday, wearing the same clothes, etc. I can see why you had that suspicion early on.

Thank you, Git. Now that I'm almost caught up, I understand. I was thinking that maybe the A 4 was referring to a specific sub charge. I'm still confused about the "classes" of the charges. Can you elaborate?

A class 4 felony is greater than a class 6. The mother was charged with a class 4 but the dad only with class 6 felonies, it appears:


Class 4 Felonies

A Class 4 felony is punishable by two to ten years’ imprisonment and a fine of up to $100,000. (Va. Ann. Code § 18.2-10.)
Pimping is a Class 4 felony in Virginia. For more information on prostitution and related crimes and penalties, see Prostitution, Pimping, and Pandering Laws in Virginia.


Class 6 Felonies

Class 6 felonies are the least serious felonies in Virginia. Like Class 5 felonies, Class 6 felonies are wobblers, punishable by:

• one to five years in prison (felony), or
• up to 12 months in jail and a fine of $2,500.

(Va. Ann. Code § 18.2-10.)
Donating or attempting to donate blood infected by human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) is an example of a Class 6 felony.
For more information on this and similar crimes, see Transmitting an STD in Virginia.
http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.co...e/state-felony-laws/virginia-felony-class.htm

What they mean by "wobbler" is that the crime can be charged with either a misdemeanor OR a felony. They chose felony for Paul Thomas, although it is the least serious felony available.

 

[Tillicum]

Yes. That's true. When people are arrested and booked, they get a mug shot. However, traffic misdemeanors such as this are typically not arrestable offenses. It's a ticket. Which made me think that he must have been arrested for something more serious. But I believe you if you say that people are arrested in VA for driving without a license. pretty harsh though!!!



The bit about a "hard, credible tip" was the one thing that had me believing this was more than a tired mom napping while her five year old watched cartoons. But now we hear there was no tip at all? Odd. So they just finally decided to drain the septic tank? What was the purpose of that statement about the hard, credible tip then?

To make the parents think they had been seen putting him in there? Get them to give up and talk, as in "game over"?

 

[blue22]

Could LE have pretended to have had a tip, so the parents didn't suspect they were onto them at that point? Perhaps also to make each parent question if the other one had given something away. If mum and dad were the only ones involved in disposing of poor Noah, then if LE say they received a tip to look there, wouldn't they wonder how anyone else could know. Did they talk about it to each other? House bugged? Maybe the reward was a set up too - to make them suspect that someone would rather have the money than keep quiet?

I guess after 5 days of searching turning up nothing, no witnesses seeing Noah outside and the scent dogs being unable to find any scent leaving the property, the septic tank was the only place Noah could be. But maybe LE didn't want the parents to know they'd worked that out themselves.

Yes. Except, I don't think it was LE just figuring it out. I read an article (I will try and find the link) that up to that day, it was search efforts. When too much time had past for him to be alive in the elements...they turned it to a recovery effort. When they changed the investigation to a recovery effort, they looked in the tank.

 

[pinklilies]

A few minutes after Noah's body was found, maybe even before the press released it but neighbors were posting on FB sayin Noah's body was found in the septic, there were also neighbors who said that Ashley confessed that Noah died of a heroin overdose. They didn't say whether it was given to him or he got into it

I think a lot of us put some weight into the rumors of the heroin since the rumors of him being found in the septic tank were right and from neighbors who were right there.

Thank you iamnotagolem for this ^ I don't do Facebook or Twitter etc but there seems to be a lot of info to be found on these places. I know it's classed as rumour but there's a saying isn't there, there's no smoke without fire.

Poor little Noah, such an undignified, vile ending he had. You know, I'm not usually a religious person but I do hope an angel held him tight while he was having to endure these monstrous crimes done to him.

 

[gitana1]

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, my phone died lol. It is really harsh, they actually come before the magistrate and get a warrant issued. VA doesn't play with a lot of traffic offenses. Even reckless driving can land you in jail. A big issue in our legal system is people lose their license for various reasons, then drive because hey our public transportation sucks, get arrested for driving on a suspended, and it happens over and over. Fines add up, jail time adds up, people lose their jobs, etc. I'm not saying people aren't responsible for their own actions, they are. It just feels exceedingly harsh at times especially for people who can't afford to pay the fines. I could go on and on, but I won't since it's off topic.

See I think reckless driving is worse than driving without a license!!

 

[strawb93]

There are no excuses, we all have choices to make in life.

But I do feel sad when I look at the photos and the video on their facebook pages. They looked like good kids. They started a family. They could have been great.

Instead they are in jail, shadows of the people they once were, one child buried yesterday, and the other removed by the authorities. I don't feel sorry for them, I only feel sorry for their poor children, but I do feel sad about it.

 

[gitana1]

To make the parents think they had been seen putting him in there? Get them to give up and talk, as in "game over"?

Smart thought.

 

[YidArmyRach]

Yes. Except, I don't think it was LE just figuring it out. I read an article (I will try and find the link) that up to that day, it was search efforts. When too much time had past for him to be alive in the elements...they turned it to a recovery effort. When they changed the investigation to a recovery effort, they looked in the tank.

Its okay, I read that one as well. I think you are right about it changing to a recovery effort at that point.

 

[paris_paris]

That is not the first relative who has mentioned that they were great parents despite what neighbors have said, and obviously with the charges and arrests today.

Makes me wonder if LE needs to investigate their situations as well. If my brother was arrested b/c he killed his kid, I wouldn't say he was the "best parent hands down" b/c obviously my kids still being alive, I'd think I was a better parent than him.

I swear that quote, and the other comment about calling AW when she needed advice... I swear I read those quotes a few days ago. Long before the arrests.

 

[blue22]

Its okay, I read that one as well. I think you are right about it changing to a recovery effort at that point.

I'm just going to put the link here anyway, because there is a statement about the baby I hadn't read before

“As time passed, it was our belief that Noah could not have survived being lost considering the physical terrain, large search area, and weather related elements,” Davis said. “That this point, in the search period, our search and rescue teams transitioned into a locate and recovery mode.”

County Sheriff Jim Davis confirmed that Abigail had been removed from the parent’s house the day after Noah’s disappearance by the sheriff’s office and Pulaski County Department of Social Services.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I swear that quote, and the other comment about calling AW when she needed advice... I swear I read those quotes a few days ago. Long before the arrests.

Those were from Paul's other sister..

“Some people need to consider Paul and Ashley’s feelings. They’re completely devastated. We all are,” Ide said. She added it’s the one time in her life she’s glad her brother doesn’t use social media, because some “people have been so cruel, and that’s completely unfair.”
http://www.southwesttimes.com/2015/...tinue-to-cooperate-during-tragic-tragic-time/



Katherine Ide Uhm Stacy Howard Hopkins this is my brothers son, my nephew, Paul and Ashley are the two very best parents I know. You don't know the story. We are gonna keep searching for him till he is found safe. But no negativity is needed.
https://www.facebook.com/wsls10/posts/10153347962597176

 

[matou]

I swear that quote, and the other comment about calling AW when she needed advice... I swear I read those quotes a few days ago. Long before the arrests.

I thought the fb rumour appeared before Noah was found too. The details were very specific.

 

[Lovepink]

See I think reckless driving is worse than driving without a license!!

Me too, haha. I also should clarify they CAN release on a summons, but clearly in his case they didn't.

 

[Jillybean78]

Sorry, this may have already been discussed..I'm just catching up. So, there seem to be two different mug shots of the dad. One where he looks extremely young. Could this be from an arrest from 5 years ago? I found this..
http://virginia.arrests.org/Arrests/Paul_Thomas_16474277/

 

[matou]

Those were from Paul's other sister..

“Some people need to consider Paul and Ashley’s feelings. They’re completely devastated. We all are,” Ide said. She added it’s the one time in her life she’s glad her brother doesn’t use social media, because some “people have been so cruel, and that’s completely unfair.”
http://www.southwesttimes.com/2015/...tinue-to-cooperate-during-tragic-tragic-time/



Katherine Ide Uhm Stacy Howard Hopkins this is my brothers son, my nephew, Paul and Ashley are the two very best parents I know. You don't know the story. We are gonna keep searching for him till he is found safe. But no negativity is needed.
https://www.facebook.com/wsls10/posts/10153347962597176

Oh yes, he also said that "this was no accident", or something similar about Noah being found in the septic tank.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Maybe they think by arresting them it will make one or both of them talk or turn against the other one. They already now have their funeral body language probably on tape to study.

 

[Meemaw12]

http://www.wset.com/story/28706685/...ate-on-noah-thomas-investigation-4-update-mug

Ksuri in video following press conference


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[courtneyb]

When I looked at Noah's pictures...I saw a beautiful, jovial, silly, wonderful boy full of joy...just like everyone else. But I also saw a boy who was not nurtured that way. I saw a boy who was born with a special gift of joy and laughter, and a boy who would be HIM despite anything going on his life. I have no doubt he brought love and laughs to every single person he knew, but I doubt his parents showered him with the same love. He was who he was despite them. I give them no credit for his special character and soul. I imagine the life he could have lived. His funeral after a long life. People so sad, but they just can't help but laugh, because he did that to people. He brought them joy, kindness, love, laughs. His life would have been a very long legacy of love. A celebrated long life. And it's not that way. It's a short life, a celebrated short life. A life that was snuffed by the people entrusted to protect and cherish him. And they stood at his funeral among those devastated and brokenhearted, who know the world lost a special little angel who could have lived so long helping so many be loved.

HOW DARE THEY. How dare they stand there and violate him all over again like that.

I am so angry. So. Freaking.ANGRY.

Kids are so resilient... they can hide the hurt and fear better than any adult I know. According to Angel, Noah was comfortable around her girls and Mark, but, not comfortable with her. I was trying to not get put in time out But, what she actually said is that he acted "scared" of her. Which broke her heart because she is the warmest, most sensitive person. Add that to AW insisting that Noah knew better than to go outside and/or off on his own, and that was enough to convince me that Noah was gone and she was involved. Because Noah was always outside alone. I think she was trying to convince LE not to search close to home; that he had been kidnapped, because he would never go out on his own. I'm right there with you, with the anger.