GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #4

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I would hope that LE would release the COD and MOD sooner than later so as to exonerate the parents, if indeed this was an accident.

Question: Could the mother be charged under VA law with negligence, if it is proven that this was accidental?

Gitana seemed to be saying that no she couldn't be charged yesterday and as much as I disagree with her on this case I completely respect her knowledge of the law. If she says that what happened doesn't meet the legal standard for neglect then I have no doubt that Ashley is safe legally.


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@WDBJ7: Pulaski County sheriff expected to give an update on the #NoahThomas case at 4 p.m. We plan to live stream it. http://t.co/RuPqDMfnC2


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Interested to hear the news later on today's presser.
Know idea what it will be about as sheriff was clear about waiting for further tests to come back.

Hoping the family and community get some answers today though.
Will be back later to check it out.
 
Gitana seemed to be saying that no she couldn't be charged yesterday and as much as I disagree with her on this case I completely respect her knowledge of the law. If she says that what happened doesn't meet the legal standard for neglect then I have no doubt that Ashley is safe legally.


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Agreed.

Would it be up to LE or the DA? I am thinking about those children that were accidentally left in a car and died from the heat. It seems many of those parents were charged. Or maybe not?

The law in Virginia is broad and allows a lot for DA (county) discretion. Taking the limited information we have at face value, there isn't a slam dunk negligence case there. But we also aren't privvy to all of the details that LE will pass to the DA.

If you look back through the last 10 or 12 pages or so of Thread 3, there was a lot of lengthy discussion about this last night. That might help frame things up for you.
 
Just marking my spot. Has it been confirmed that there will be major news at the PC?


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Just an update. Major updates will be done via conference
 
OT but I had to share this with you guys.

I have read up here big time about septic tanks--just as you guys all have. Thanks to all that posted. I've never thought so much about septic tanks in my life. For these last few days I've been telling my husband about all of this and the septic tank etc.

Anyway, yesterday afternoon I was out doing yard work and noticed about a foot in diameter bubbling "spring" that had formed at the edge of my yard. We live where springs do regularly occur so I thought "wow, a spring in the yard!" But then, something tickled the back of my mind and leaned in to smell it. NOT a fresh spring, but SEWER water. UGH! Anyway, long story short I am in the middle of trying to find someone to come out and pump/repair my septic system (who knew it would be such a difficult thing to find SOMEONE to hire).

I just found it very....weird....(not the exact word I'm looking for)....that suddenly...especially on Noah's funeral day....I'm having trouble with the septic.

Just had to share with people that would understand what I'm saying :)
 
I was reading up on septic tanks and one problem with them is getting small animals (mice, squirrels, etc) in the pipe which clogs it and prevents the ability to vent properly. The gases build up and the odor does back up into the home. I would think the smell of human decomp is different than bodily fluids and would be stronger in a contained environment. After 5 days, I believe it is possible gases built up and the body raised to the top possibly clogging the vent. The backup of odor would be discernible to certain people.

Could this have been involved in the tip? Decomp odor stemming from the septic system would be a huge clue.

Possibly, but there are vent pipes in the walls of every home that takes all toxic fumes out of the home and traps them from coming back in. They will be located inside bathroom walls and in the kitchen area and are vented through the roof.

I don't understand how animals can get into the sealed tank. Ours is totally encased in concrete including the long concrete lid and buried beneath the ground with about a foot of soil above the top of the lid.

What I think really happens is there is a clog between the tank and the home or clogs in the inside pipes so the material that makes the clog never gets to the septic tank to break down and backs up inside. The same thing happens if the septic tank is full. It will not take on further waste material so the material backs up inside the house with it never being able to drain into the septic tank itself.

Septic tanks by design are to make the material waste ferment. It is that fermentation that breaks the materials down into soft sludge that rest on the bottom of the tank. Even if a septic tank is working properly it is usually filled with water almost to the top. It slowly seeps water out of the tank and goes into the leech field lines further out in the yard.

I don't want to be graphic but I have smelled a decomposing body and it was one which had been in water for two weeks. The smell is somewhat similar to a septic tank that is opened especially one that is full and needs to be pumped badly causing it not to work properly. But with the lid all across the top of the tank that smell is sealed in and below ground level. I am not talking about the small entrance cover but the heavy lid that goes all across the top of the tank.

I think someone in the area knew there was a septic tank on the property and may have told them that is where they needed to search. Maybe that person had read about other people falling into septic tanks including little children?

IMO
 
I know this has already been posted as to the information, but I'm just estatic that "HelpSaveTheNextGirl" - who many of us learned about from another case... is stepping up and is active. They helped on another case put together the pieces, and I'm going to follow to see what cases they post. Hopefully, this is a Walsh type organization for longer term that is just beginning and has proper infrastructure to help out.

HelpSaveTheNextGirl ‏@SaveTheNextGirl 8m8 minutes ago

Press conference from the Sheriff's Office regarding #NoahThomas at 4pm @hokiedokie24 will be there giving updates.
 
I was always afraid to nap when mine were little. I told myself 'this is just for a short time and then they'll be grown up'. When they go off to college, it's just a new and different kind of worrying.

If you had a kindergartner and an infant and also worked nights, you may not have had a choice.
 

from the manual ...

2.4 Physical neglect
2.4.1 Statutory and regulatory definition
The Code of Virginia § 63.2-100 provides the statutory foundation for the definition of
physical neglect. The Virginia Administrative Code provides the regulatory definition
for physical neglect:
(22 VAC 40-705-30 B). Physical neglect occurs when there is the failure to provide food,
clothing, shelter, or supervision for a child to the extent that the child's health or safety is
endangered. This also includes abandonment and situations where the parent or
caretaker's own incapacitating behavior or absence prevents or severely limits the
performing of child caring tasks pursuant to § 63.2 –100 of the Code of Virginia. This
also includes a child under the age of 18 whose parent or other person responsible for his
care knowingly leaves the child alone in the same dwelling as a person, not related by
blood or marriage, who has been convicted of an offense against a minor for which
registration is required as a violent sexual offender pursuant to § 9.1-902.
(22 VAC 40-705-30 B1). Physical neglect may include multiple occurrences or a onetime
critical or severe event that results in a threat to health or safety.

2.4.2.2 Inadequate supervision
The child has been left in the care of an inadequate caretaker or in a situation
requiring judgment or actions greater than the child's level of maturity, physical
condition, and/or mental abilities would reasonably dictate. Inadequate
supervision includes minimal care or supervision by the caretaker resulting in
placing the child in jeopardy of sexual or other exploitation, physical injury, or
results in status offenses, criminal acts by the child, or alcohol or drug abuse.

---
The law in Virginia does not specify an age. Several of us searched and could not find any additional laws in Pulaski County specifying ages or guidelines (as some other counties in VA do). That doesn't mean they don't exist but they were not readily found online.

The key would be if they decide that age 5 is too young to be left watching TV while mom naps (however many feet away). One of the factors to be considered is accessibility to a responsible adult. In this case, she was accessible to him (as far as we know).

Yeah, I can see where negligence charges could be brought but I don't think we have enough information available to us to really know.

----

Edited to add - *please see gitana1's post #81.
 
They don't seem to be. Idk if it is just a brief hiatus while they grieve or a permanent state though.


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They discussed changing the name of the group to memorialize Noah now that he is no longer missing. They took a lot of ridiculous flack from people about the donation fund. I wonder if they are regrouping now that the bulk of the work is over, so to speak.
 
If you had a kindergartner and an infant and also worked nights, you may not have had a choice.

Such a shame that so many people have come forward to talk about how much they loved Noah and what he meant to them, yet there appears to be a situation where the mum seems to have had no one to help out with childcare so she could take a nap, or felt she couldn't ask these people for whatever reason.
 
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