GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #4

[gitana1]

I would hope that LE would release the COD and MOD sooner than later so as to exonerate the parents, if indeed this was an accident.

Question: Could the mother be charged under VA law with negligence, if it is proven that this was accidental?

Unless there is something more to the story such as drug or alcohol use or a pattern of leaving the child unattended, then no.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/define.pdf

http://www.dss.virginia.gov/files/d...ection_2_definitions_of_abuse_and_neglect.pdf

Please do not be confused between administrative codes or snippets from DHS sites that explain the standards that allow DHS to intervene, and the criminal code.

I cited on the last thread both applicable laws (child neglect and criminal negligence/homicide). Neither would allow for such charges under the scenario we've been given. If anyone wants a fuller explanation of the law and why I am saying that, let me know. For starters, child neglect charges must involve WILLFUL behaviors with negative intent or knowledge of illegality.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Possibly, but there are vent pipes in the walls of every home that takes all toxic fumes out of the home and traps them from coming back in. They will be located inside bathroom walls and in the kitchen area and are vented through the roof.

I don't understand how animals can get into the sealed tank. Ours is totally encased in concrete including the long concrete lid and buried beneath the ground with about a foot of soil above the top of the lid.

What I think really happens is there is a clog between the tank and the home or clogs in the inside pipes so the material that makes the clog never gets to the septic tank to break down and backs up inside. The same thing happens if the septic tank is full. It will not take on further waste material so the material backs up inside the house with it never being able to drain into the septic tank itself.

Septic tanks by design are to make the material waste ferment. It is that fermentation that breaks the materials down into soft sludge that rest on the bottom of the tank. Even if a septic tank is working properly it is usually filled with water almost to the top. It slowly seeps water out of the tank and goes into the leech field lines further out in the yard.

I don't want to be graphic but I have smelled a decomposing body and it was one which had been in water for two weeks. The smell is somewhat similar to a septic tank that is opened especially one that is full and needs to be pumped badly causing it not to work properly. But with the lid all across the top of the tank that smell is sealed in and below ground level. I am not talking about the small entrance cover but the heavy lid that goes all across the top of the tank.

I think someone in the area knew there was a septic tank on the property and may have told them that is where they needed to search. Maybe that person had read about other people falling into septic tanks including little children?

IMO

There was a white pvc pipe sticking out of the yard near the septic tank in Noah's yard. I thought it was a vent pipe? I have no real experience with septic tank systems and I was surprised to read about the small animals being able to clog the pipe.

 

[krig101]

Suri Crowe @KSuri · 47m 47 minutes ago

#BREAKING there will be a news conference today at 4 with Sheriff Jim Davis updating #NoahThomas case. I'll be there.

Sounds like they were waiting until after the funeral to make any more announcements? Only my thoughts...

 

[YidArmyRach]

Unless there is something more to the story such as drug or alcohol use or a pattern of leaving the child unattended, then no.





Please do not be confused between administrative codes or snippets from DHS sites that explain the standards that allow DHS to intervene, and the criminal code.

I cited on the last thread both applicable laws (child neglect and criminal negligence/homicide). Neither would allow for such charges under the scenario we've been given. If anyone wants a fuller explanation of the law and why I am saying that, let me know. For starters, child neglect charges must involve WILLFUL behaviors with negative intent or knowledge of illegality.

What if someone went to sleep, and had left prescription drugs accessible to a child, or illegal drugs/alcohol or even household cleaning products like bleach, which a child consumed and died as a result of? Would that count as willful behaviours, or does it have to be absolutely deliberate harm?

 

[Shelby1]

There was a white pvc pipe sticking out of the yard near the septic tank in Noah's yard. I thought it was a vent pipe? I have no real experience with septic tank systems and I was surprised to read about the small animals being able to clog the pipe.

Our pipe like that was buried maybe 7 inches or so under ground. It is about 8 inches or so in diameter and it has a cap on it that is removable. We dug it up last night thinking that the septic tank guy would use that to clean (suck) out the gunk in the tank. The septic guy said that his hose wouldn't fit on our pipe and that we would have to dig up our entire tank. BUT a guy on the phone called that pipe "the clean out".

 

[courtneyb]

What if someone went to sleep, and had left prescription drugs accessible to a child, or illegal drugs/alcohol or even household cleaning products like bleach, which a child consumed and died as a result of? Would that count as willful behaviours, or does it have to be absolutely deliberate harm?

I don't know but I know of a recent case where the person that supplied heroin to a girl was deemed complicit in her murder. I would hope that children are at least as protected by law as in that case.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Suri Crowe @KSuri · 47m 47 minutes ago

#BREAKING there will be a news conference today at 4 with Sheriff Jim Davis updating #NoahThomas case. I'll be there.

Sounds like they were waiting until after the funeral to make any more announcements? Only my thoughts...

Any announcement made after they buried Noah could then be considered as they waited to make it I suppose, but it doesn't necessarily make it true.

 

[krig101]

This photo is from Suri Crowe's Twitter page. I dont know if anyone shared this pic of Noah yet but it just melted and breaks my heart! Just love the crazy hair!!!!!

 

[gitana1]

Such a shame that so many people have come forward to talk about how much they loved Noah and what he meant to them, yet there appears to be a situation where the mum seems to have had no one to help out with childcare so she could take a nap, or felt she couldn't ask these people for whatever reason.

I agree. I would and have watched my neighbor's kids. But sometimes moms aren't good about asking for help. For example, Texas with her husband and two little boys. She came down with horrible case of the flu. She and her husband both have various Relations there and she knew her neighbors by that time quite well. But she did not ask for help and didn't tell anyone that she needed any. She became so overwrought exhausted from being sick and trying to care for two very active children while her husband worked that she had to be hospitalized for five days with pneumonia.

I would have flown out there to help her if she had only asked. She's got a ton of friends that would have. But she didn't.

 

[debm]

Oh, ok. I thought it WAS a press conference scheduled for 4 pm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is a press conference with an update. Not sure how major it is

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't know but I know of a recent case where the person that supplied heroin to a girl was deemed complicit in her murder. I would hope that children are at least as protected by law as in that case.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Possession of Heroin is illegal. There has been no mention of illegal substances in this case.

 

[Tillicum]

This photo is from Suri Crowe's Twitter page. I dont know if anyone shared this pic of Noah yet but it just melted and breaks my heart! Just love the crazy hair!!!!!View attachment 72184

:tantrum:

 

[YidArmyRach]

I agree. I would and have watched my neighbor's kids. But sometimes moms aren't good about asking for help. For example, Texas with her husband and two little boys. She came down with horrible case of the flu. She and her husband both have various Relations there and she knew her neighbors by that time quite well. But she did not ask for help and didn't tell anyone that she needed any. She became so overwrought exhausted from being sick and trying to care for two very active children while her husband worked that she had to be hospitalized for five days with pneumonia.

I would have flown out there to help her if she had only asked. She's got a ton of friends that would have. But she didn't.

I remember my third child just didn't sleep. He would wake up at least 10 times a night, every night, if not more. This went on for years. He was also very "clingy" when he was awake, wanting to be with me all the time. It was exhausting, I couldn't even go to the bathroom without him screaming for me outside. I didn't have any family around (even in the same country) and didn't really know my neighbours as I worked 10 miles away, so tended to only eat and sleep at home. In the end, I remember being so tired, that I used to pay a local childminder to have him for a couple of hours, twice a week, so I could catch up on some sleep, and also to give me a break from him! She lived in the next street, so it was weird to walk round and drop him off, whilst I went home, but it saved my sanity.

I'm glad to say he is very independent now, full of fun and has turned into a lovely 15 year old, but out of the 5 of my boys, he was by far the most difficult. I'm amazed I had another 2 after him!

 

[vasportsmom]

Can anyone recall a case where a confession was accompanied by a deal to not proceed with arrest until after the funeral?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SStarr33]

This photo is from Suri Crowe's Twitter page. I dont know if anyone shared this pic of Noah yet but it just melted and breaks my heart! Just love the crazy hair!!!!!View attachment 72184

Seriously one of the cutest kids on the planet. He could have been in movies.

 

[blue22]

If you had a kindergartner and an infant and also worked nights, you may not have had a choice.

choice
noun \ˈchȯis\

: the act of choosing : the act of picking or deciding between two or more possibilities

: the opportunity or power to choose between two or more possibilities : the opportunity or power to make a decision

: a range of things that can be chosen


I've been there, in this situation. It's a choice. That goes for any case or situation where a parent chooses something and the outcome is bad. There is always opportunity to have done differently, to have gone the other way instead. It's not just this mom. We all make choices we regret. Thankfully, most of us don't make choices that have those consequences.

 

[lillybell]

Every photo I have seen of little Noah, he has looked happy!
Such a little cutie, he would of broke some hearts as he got older I'm sure!

 

[krig101]

Can anyone recall a case where a confession was accompanied by a deal to not proceed with arrest until after the funeral?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They'll Get You referenced the Bayden Clay case in Australia a few posts back, might be at the end of thread 2. Not sure about any other ones.

 

[blue22]

Can anyone recall a case where a confession was accompanied by a deal to not proceed with arrest until after the funeral?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not in the US, that I can find.

 

[winterrose]

http://www.courts.state.va.us/courts/jdr/jdrinfo.pdf

Child Abuse and Neglect:
1. A caregiver who creates or inflicts a physical or mental injury upon a child.
2. A caregiver who creates the child to be at risk of physical or mental injury.
3. A caregiver who refuses to provide for juvenile’s health and well-being.

http://guidance.pwcs.ashland.schoolf...525&gid=831351

Prince William County

Child Supervision Guidelines
Child Supervision
Ages 0-8 May not be left unsupervised
Ages 9-11 No more than 1.5 hours alone-day only
Ages 12-15 May be left alone all day
Ages 16-17 May be left alone all night or over the weekend
Babysitting Guidelines
Ages 12-13 May baby sit children up to four hours
Ages 14-15 May baby sit more than four hours-not overnight or
weekends
Ages 16-17 May baby sit children overnight or over the weekend

Fairfax County

Age Guidelines ...
7 years and under: Should not be left alone for any period of time. This may include leaving children unattended in cars, playgrounds, and backyards. The determining consideration would be the dangers in the environment and the ability of the caretaker to intervene.
8 to 10 years:Should not be left alone for more than 1½ hours and only during daylight and early evening hours.
11 to 12 years:May be left alone for up to 3 hours but not late at night or in circumstances requiring inappropriate responsibility.
13 to 15 years:May be left unsupervised, but not overnight.
16 to 17 years:May be left unsupervised (in some cases, for up to two consecutive overnight periods).

I"ve not searched deeper into each county, those popped up easier. We were looking the other day and couldn't find anything about Pulaski, which ANonyMs gave the main law in Va doesn't specify an age. I know the arrests I've seen in the news for negligence with kids wandering were for young children, so it's on a case by case basis. Probably if there's been interaction with CPS or LE before in those cases.