GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #4

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ANonyMs said:
For some of us, it is not about having sympathy or empathy for his parents. It is not that we did not suspect his mother all along. Not every post that was less-than-accusatory equates to naivety, soft-heartedness, or lack of experience. Just because someone did not join this site at it's inception does not mean they have not read WS for years, or been involved in investigations themselves, or have an educational or professional background or personal interest that gives them something to say.

Some of us chose not to go the route of immediately blaming the parents because 1) it violates WS TOS and/or 2) we approach these discussion threads with objectivity. Some of us read all the rumor mill posts on FB but chose not to discuss it here - again, b/c it violates TOS.

Some like to look at every angle and not make immediate assumptions. Some are keen to always find the other side of the coin. Some like to play devils advocate. Some want to look at every puzzle piece to see how it fits.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not make them foolish.

This isn't a competition.
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If this was directed towards me, I never called anyone foolish. I said it would be foolish to think we would all agree, and I still stand by that.
 
ANonyMs said:
OT, but federal employees have not had Good Friday as a part of their offical OPM holiday roster for several years now.

I think, in general, there are some places that observe it and make allowances but many no longer due.

I do think it is interesting that one source said that Pulaski County courts were closed for Good Friday and another said , "no judges were available". (Because they all took Good Friday off?)

In any case, the video arraignment being conducted with another county made me wonder...

I know that case is set for Pulaski County but I would guess any defense attorney would ask for a change of venue if it goes to trial.

Are they being held in with the general prison population or in some protective manner? I would have to think that even inmates in the county clink have heard about this case.
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Agree. A friends and my aunt are federal employees and she told me last night they were open today.
 
courtneyb said:
Ahhh, good point. Do you know what the length of something like that would be? 30 days? Or 90 days? 90 days would fit nicely in the time frame. It doesn't make it so, but still really interesting.
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90 day programs are $$$. I would guess 30 days and then a couple of months for them to get their stories straight with their respective attorneys.
 
Tallula.Belle said:
If this was directed towards me, I never called anyone foolish. I said it would be foolish to think we would all agree, and I still stand by that.
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It wasn't directed at any one single person at all. I had been off the board all day and most of last night and came back to find pages and pages of people who all seemed really upset with each other over everyone's personal feelings on the case vs discussion of the case. There were many, many posts that prompted me to write that.

It's kind of like binge watching your favorite show when the writers go askew for a few weeks. You have to keep watching because your committed to it but you want to scream, "what the heck is going on here!!!!????"

Really, in the end, what I really wanted to post was this... :whiteflag: and this :deadhorse: but things have chilled out and now I just want to post this :grouphug:

Can't we all just get along???????

P.S. I did not even realize you used the word "foolish" in your post! I just happen to use that word, too. See? We DO agree on something!
 
ANonyMs said:
I don't know. It seems some court systems book everything a standard number of days out. Some give shorter time frames and then go through continuances and date changes over and over. Some cut to the chase and schedule it way out at the outset.

I do wonder, though, if there is truth to the speculations of drug use, could they be allowed in to some sort of detox or treatment program before trial (which, if the judge anticipated, could have affected the date?)
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I have never heard of a judge making time for drug treatment in any case.

According to the Federal Speedy Trial Act, a defendant has the right to a preliminary hearing, if applicable to their case, within thirty days of their arrest, unless the defendant waives their right to a speedy trial.
http://www.lawfirms.com/resources/criminal-defense/criminal-defense-case/preliminary-hearings.htm bbm

Did anyone hear them waive their right to a speedy trial? Or does this particular Federal Act not apply in VA? I am curious now.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
There is much debate in the mental health community about narcissism. Many believe they are born with this disposition or trait and then their environment growing up allows for the narcissism to become stronger and stronger until it is full blown.

Personally I have always believed it is both. Birth and environment while growing up.

I didn't see anything narcissist about what she said. Now if she had said she didn't deserve to be there or something like that I may think she is a narcissist.

Her statement that she was sad may actually be a true statement. She may very well be but of course the sadness could be that she knows she is in the criminal justice system and her future looks bleak now or she may really regret that her own actions killed her son if that is what happened. The truth is we just don't know.

The matter of fact statement made by Paul seemed much like a man would make. To get to the bottom of things quickly and that was wanting to know when he could make bond.

So for me ....I didn't learn anything from the short statements either one made. Pretty typical I think.

I don't think anyone really wants to harm this couple. Words come cheap nowadays especially on the internet with anonymous commenters. But I do believe that everyone wants them to be held fully legally accountable should they both be found guilty. I don't see anything wrong with wanting that. That is sure what I want and nothing more. Oh and if the charges are upgraded to murder I will also want the top sentence imposed if either one or both are found guilty of that charge as well.

I think it is just unrealistic to think most people are going to like anyone that is suspected of being a child abuser and possible child murderer.

I can certainly understand their family supporting them. I have seen that happen countless times and find it quite normal even if they turnout to be guilty. Often people show others the side they want them to see. Families can be fooled too just like anyone else.


JMO though
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I wonder if PT thought he could get the daughter back if he was able to make bond?
 
I think the test results they're waiting on are verification of something in his system that shouldn't have been there. I think AW was giving both the kids something to make them sleep so she could get high. They probably found something in the baby's system, too, which is why AW has the stronger charge. I think she gave Noah too much and he died, and then PT helped cover it up to try to protect her. Why protecting her would be important when she didn't protect his children is a mystery to me.

If my theory is correct, Noah would have simply fallen asleep and never known anything bad was happening. There's a small measure of comfort in that.
 
SeriouslySearching said:
I have never heard of a judge making time for drug treatment in any case.

According to the Federal Speedy Trial Act, a defendant has the right to a preliminary hearing, if applicable to their case, within thirty days of their arrest, unless the defendant waives their right to a speedy trial.
http://www.lawfirms.com/resources/criminal-defense/criminal-defense-case/preliminary-hearings.htm bbm

Did anyone hear them waive their right to a speedy trial? Or does this particular Federal Act not apply in VA? I am curious now.
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Pretrial Diversion. (Not that these charges can necessarily be eligible for diversion, but that is an instance where trial is delayed for treatment). Drug court is another one. I am not saying this case is eligible - I have no idea. But it does happen in other instances.
 
JMO, For the record I think both parents were complicit in the neglect/abuse. I think they both gave him drugs. I don't think one was covering for the other. I think it was a mutual case of abuse that resulted in Noah's death. I'm sure one gave the lethal dose, but will submit to the possibility that only one of them put Noah in the septic tank.

I have been trying to figure out how to say this next part for 2 days now. I've cried about it and just don't even understand how someone could toss their baby into a septic tank. My SIL miscarried while we were visiting them in their home, I grieved so much for that baby. When they buried the baby on a friend's piece of land, I fell apart knowing my SIL would never hold her baby agiain. They later moved to a different state. I don't know if I could ever be that strong, I would be inclined to go dig up my deceased baby and take him/her with me. I can't fathom being so far away. This was a 1st trimester loss, I have trouble comprehending the death of a 5 y/o and subsequent disposal, then later burial. I don't know if I could survive.
 
strawb93 said:
I need to clear up a few things.

When I said "jumped on" I was referring to their words, not them. Jump on whoever you like.

We don't know that they deserve any empathy, but neither do we know that they don't.

I am also fiercely anti drugs, I have never touched anything other than alcohol and pain relief drugs during childbirth. Part of me cannot comprehend how competent individuals can make the choice to bring drugs into their lives. But it happens daily. The picture that earlier posts and photos of theirs paints compared to now suggests to me that somewhere along the way something went awry.

I looked at comments under a MSM article and the things people were saying...It is my opinion and my opinion only, that if I was to feel ill will towards these people, and call for their murder, or their drowning or anything like that, then I am no better than they are. If other people want to hate them, despise them and discount them, then that is their decision, but I have just as much right to post my feelings on here as anyone else.

I am able to loathe their actions, regret their choices and wish that those children had been dealt the hand in life they deserved, while also recognizing the fact that these two people were also someone else's baby once.
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Can someone start a new thread for the Ashley and Paul sympathisers, please?

I'm having a very hard time reading these posts.
 
ANonyMs said:
OT, but federal employees have not had Good Friday as a part of their offical OPM holiday roster for several years now.

I think, in general, there are some places that observe it and make allowances but many no longer do.

I do think it is interesting that one source said that Pulaski County courts were closed for Good Friday and another said , "no judges were available". (Because they all took Good Friday off?)

In any case, the video arraignment being conducted with another county made me wonder...

I know that case is set for Pulaski County but I would guess any defense attorney would ask for a change of venue if it goes to trial.

Are they being held in with the general prison population or in some protective manner? I would have to think that even inmates in the county clink have heard about this case.
Click to expand...

Sounds like every city, county or state has been different in what was open and closed. I live in TN no banks or schools were open in my area. The mail did run today. I know I spoke with my friend from back home, in GA. She is a bank teller and she was off and her kids out of school. Guess it depends on where you live. My husband retired less than a year ago, all I know is Good Friday was a holiday for him each year.
 
themom said:
Can someone start a new thread for the Ashley and Paul sympathisers, please?

I'm having a very hard time reading these posts.
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They have not even asked for forgiveness yet; have not even admitted any guilt.

I'm certainly not going to be the first to volunteer my forgiveness. Slow down people. They haven't even admitted the truth, that they have something to be sorry for. I'm not sure how sorry they will be then, excepting being sorry for their loss of freedom.

Let's not forgive people before they've even realized the full impact of what they've done. Unless ya'll want to do it in the new thread. [emoji57]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
iamnotagolem said:
JMO, For the record I think both parents were complicit in the neglect/abuse. I think they both gave him drugs. I don't think one was covering for the other. I think it was a mutual case of abuse that resulted in Noah's death. I'm sure one gave the lethal dose, but will submit to the possibility that only one of them put Noah in the septic tank.

I have been trying to figure out how to say this next part for 2 days now. I've cried about it and just don't even understand how someone could toss their baby into a septic tank. My SIL miscarried while we were visiting them in their home, I grieved so much for that baby. When they buried the baby on a friend's piece of land, I fell apart knowing my SIL would never hold her baby agiain. They later moved to a different state. I don't know if I could ever be that strong, I would be inclined to go dig up my deceased baby and take him/her with me. I can't fathom being so far away. This was a 1st trimester loss, I have trouble comprehending the death of a 5 y/o and subsequent disposal, then later burial. I don't know if I could survive.
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I know what you're trying to say. I would want to do the same. And I wouldn't know how to put it into words any better than you did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Tallula.Belle said:
Sounds like every city, county or state has been different in what was open and closed. I live in TN no banks or schools were open in my area. The mail did run today. I know I spoke with my friend from back home, in GA. She is a bank teller and she was off and her kids out of school. Guess it depends on where you live. My husband retired less than a year ago, all I know is Good Friday was a holiday for him each year.
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I brought the Good Friday thing back up because, while I know that yes, there are times when there are no judges available, in *this* case, I would have thought a judge would make himself/herself available. I know the arraignment was not earth-shattering but could it be that they did not have a Pulaski judge handy for a reason and Good Friday was just a convenient excuse?
 
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