GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #6

[AnnaGrace]

AnnaGrace, I'm sorry, I missed that you had posted that.

No problem. Someone might have missed my post and read it on yours.

 

[tresptip]

I think that drowning is easy to identify no matter where it occurs. The idea of examining a small body that was in a septic tank is so sad so I am trying to not sound cold or too blunt but if he drowned in there then he would have fluid or excrement in his lungs and trachea. If he was not living at time of placement, his lungs and trachea would be very very clear. The human body is amazing and you can not suck in anything post mortem. But I do not think that discounts the drowning theory. If he had ingested something harmful and had depressed bodily functions, he still may have drowned but that toxicology report will provide more pieces to the puzzle of what his last hours consisted of.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/drowning.html

(From the above article)

Indeed there may well be occasions when it proves difficult to establish whether or not the deceased was alive when they entered the water; this is because that even if an individual is deceased when they enter the water, providing the body remains submerged for a period of time, then the lungs will fill up anyway.

 

[vasportsmom]

http://www.southwesttimes.com/2015/04/noahs-mother-appeals-bond-denial/

AW is appealing the bond denial.

Isn't she cute? I suppose she just wants life to return to normal too?


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[Aeronomy]

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/drowning.html

(From the above article)

Indeed there may well be occasions when it proves difficult to establish whether or not the deceased was alive when they entered the water; this is because that even if an individual is deceased when they enter the water, providing the body remains submerged for a period of time, then the lungs will fill up anyway.

If Noah drowned, then diatoms in the water would enter his bloodstream and collect in his bone marrow. If there aren't any diatoms in his marrow, he didn't drown. The diatoms would only collect there if his heart were still beating when the water entered his lungs.

 

[Schmaley]

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/drowning.html

(From the above article)

Indeed there may well be occasions when it proves difficult to establish whether or not the deceased was alive when they entered the water; this is because that even if an individual is deceased when they enter the water, providing the body remains submerged for a period of time, then the lungs will fill up anyway.

Thanks for sharing. I was unaware! I have read a lot about drowning and never knew this. In fact I have read the opposite. For example the girl who drowned in the water tank in the hotel had water in her lungs and I remember it being a unanimous agreement among many experts that lungs close postmortem. I am not a doctor or even in medical care at all so I would be foolish to disagree with any of this. So thank you

 

[lonetraveler]

I've been following a case or three lately, including 2 trials. I've read all the posts here and thank my fellow WS'ers for posting a solid discussion of the case. I just have a couple ideas I'd like to toss out there:

LE probably knows if Noah went into the septic tank dead or alive, but are waiting for tox results to make a complete case. If he went in alive, COD would probably be by drowning (accident or otherwise).

From one of the videos on the last thread, I watched the "how to install a riser lid." If it were an accident, why were the screws not firmly attached? The men who initially removed the lid and poked around have the answer to that. Neither I nor a 5-year-old could remove them by hand if they were installed with a power drill. Were any of the screws recovered from the area around the lid? If they are missing, why would anyone hide them?

That's it for now!

Great post, would like to add this info. The lid takes special tool to remove the type screw used. A Star tool. An common flat or phillips screw driver would not work.

 

[lonetraveler]

Isn't she cute? I suppose she just wants life to return to normal too?


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These parents! They appear to feel totally inconvenienced here. WTH? If if was me who, in any way may have caused the death of my baby, _I would want to be locked away forever.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

Hi everyone, I am making my first post but I have been stalking this page and have read every single post. I've been following since Noah first went missing and I have kept up with every bit of current information I can find. I have a 5 yr old redhead that could seriously be Noahs twin, so it really hit home for me.
I will say that I don't believe for a second that he ended up where he did on his own and I'm quite sure it was his parents who put him there. I do think they ended his life accidentally and I would bet it was an overdose. I have thought that from the beginning. That's why they hid him, they didn't want an autopsy which would prove their guilt. But I have struggled to come up with a reason WHY they would want him to sleep so badly that they would drug him. Maybe they wanted to leave the kids home in the middle of the night for a drug run and AW didn't want to go alone? And PT can't drive apparently so maybe that's why? Something like this makes sense and that they hid his body during the night. How could they have in the daylight? But now with this new info...I do not understand why they left the baby home alone that morning when they took Paul to work. It doesn't seem likely that they would want their kids to sleep so badly that they'd drug them, just so they could leave them home for a short time in the morning and it also doesn't seem like there would be enough time in the morning for him to die and her to figure out what to do. We must be missing a big piece of the puzzle. I just want to know that poor Noah did not suffer! I hope this makes sense and I didn't ramble too much.

Welcome! Glad you are here. ::greetings::

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

Isn't she cute? I suppose she just wants life to return to normal too?


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Yeah "normal" with no kids now.

 

[lonetraveler]

According to this article,Methane can kill you in seconds.
http://www.wte-ltd.co.uk/septic_tank_dangers.html

If he did drown,it maybe hard to determine that since he was in the Septic tank so long.

I wonder if they are testing for Methane poisoning or testing for drugs.

If it turns out he died from Methane poisoning then "IMO" that would mean he did actually fall into the septic tank.

If methane doesn't show up as the cause of death ,then that leaves drugs,beatings,or drowning.

If there were bruises,or fractures on Noah that would have been apparent indicating the parents possibly beating him to death,murder charges would have been filed.But there wasn't.

So that would leave drugs,or drowning.If no drugs show up,we might never know if Noah actually fell in ,or if the parents threw him in there alive.
I wouldn't think they would throw him in there alive as LA seemed to be very convinced the parents were genuinely grieving.And personally I just can't see them wanting or needing to do that for any reason.



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This may be way out there but have you considered some irrational parent getting fed up with a child and throwing him (alive) into the septic tank to just be rid of him? I noticed this wasn't one of your scenarios above and I think it needs to be. IMO, Parents would still be grieving even if they are responsible for his death. They could be regretting their irrational behavior that caused the death of their child and feeling genuine remorse.

 

[tresptip]

These parents! They appear to feel totally inconvenienced here. WTH? If if was me who, in any way may have caused the death of my baby, _I would want to be locked away forever.

They might as well be in jail.They would never be able to show their faces in public again.They'll be tormented the rest of their lives for this.

 

[Schmaley]

http://www.southwesttimes.com/2015/04/noahs-mother-appeals-bond-denial/

AW is appealing the bond denial.

She really thinks she deserves her freedom doesnt she? I feel like if it were purely accidental then she would be grieving so hard that she wouldn't care where she was.

 

[lonetraveler]

Yeah "normal" with no kids now.

Yep, "normal" meaning if they decided to have more kids well they can just make some more just like them.

 

[tresptip]

This may be way out there but have you considered some irrational parent getting fed up with a child and throwing him (alive) into the septic tank to just be rid of him? I noticed this wasn't one of your scenarios above and I think it needs to be.

I think if this was what happened there would probably be signs of past physical abuse.JMO.

 

[lonetraveler]

They might as well be in jail.They would never be able to show their faces in public again.They'll be tormented the rest of their lives for this.

They could just move away and act as if nothing has ever happened. So far, I've not seen any remorse or regret or any anything showing that they are sorry for even leaving the children alone. They are sorry for themselves only, IMO.

 

[lonetraveler]

I think if this was what happened there would probably be signs of past physical abuse.JMO.

Not necessarily, one of them could have just snapped.

 

[Schmaley]

I think if this was what happened there would probably be signs of past physical abuse.JMO.

Abuse can be hard to identify and it was said in a press conference that the authorities were very familiar with Noah.

 

[tresptip]

She really thinks she deserves her freedom doesnt she? I feel like if it were purely accidental then she would be grieving so hard that she wouldn't care where she was.

Right now,she's probably suicidal.She won't get bond.

 

[tresptip]

Abuse can be hard to identify and it was said in a press conference that the authorities were very familiar with Noah.

I remember that but nobody know why.

 

[lonetraveler]

Right now,she's probably suicidal.She won't get bond.

I've been following children crimes for a very long time and I must admit I have a very difficult time mustering up sympathy for parents who harm their children. I actually have always felt that murder of a child should mean a mandatory death sentence.