GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #6

[courtneyb]

I know it was stated here by someone familiar with the family that the Aunt is caring for Baby A but this new information makes me wonder if that is accurate. How could an untrained caregiver deal with that type of medical need? How could the state place her with a family member knowing what we know now?

I'm sure she was treated medically before being released to family if that's the case. And don't forget, that family member is a nurse. IF it's true she is with the Aunt.


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[courtneyb]

I am still reading up on it to understand it better but it does not necessarily have to be from fetal exposure nor necessarily from illegal drugs.

"Neonatal abstinence syndrome (NAS) is a group of problems that occur in a newborn who was exposed to addictive illegal or prescription drugs while in the mother’s womb. Two major types of NAS are recognized: NAS due to prenatal or maternal use of substances that result in withdrawal symptoms in the newborn and postnatal NAS secondary to discontinuation of medications such as fentanyl or morphine used for pain therapy in the newborn."

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/978763-overview

But not still actively suffering from it 6-8 months later, after the last exposure.



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[courtneyb]

Active withdrawals last up to two weeks. Developmental delays can follow, but generally unless it was really hardcore use during pregnancy or the baby was exposed regularly after birth, these babies usually do well.


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[jstinch]

I think she was born with it and it was known just from reading comments on SM. I don't think the baby would still be addicted after 6 months. My guess this is part of the reason "the family" was known by LE...IMHO

 

[wvsoccermom]

Ok, this makes sense. I didn't realize that exposure could occur outside the womb. So it is possible that she got the baby addicted through breast milk and withdrawal came when they removed baby A from her custody. Or possibly exposure came in the womb AND outside the womb

 

[Meemaw12]

Go to utube search drug addicted babies, lots of videos for different kinds of drugs


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[courtneyb]

Or perhaps, she was being dosed to keep her from crying continuously from withdrawals. And once that starts, you can't stop, in order to keep withdrawals at bay. Maybe, after seeing how much less work a drugged baby is, there was a leap in thought to how much less work would a drugged 5 year old be? Just a thought I had.

 

[courtneyb]

I'd be curious to find out if Ashley even breastfed. That's a lot of work and commitment, not to mention time consuming. Breastfeeding is a choice that requires a lot of time and work. I think it's likely she received WIC for formula. Which makes the question of how did Baby A get exposed to drugs repeatedly (IF she did) that much more important, and the answer that much more scary.

 

[wvsoccermom]

Or perhaps, she was being dosed to keep her from crying continuously from withdrawals. And once that starts, you can't stop, in order to keep withdrawals at bay. Maybe, after seeing how much less work a drugged baby is, there was a leap in thought to how much less work would a drugged 5 year old be? Just a thought I had.

Yup. My hunch exactly.

 

[ANonyMs]

I think it is time for me to go all the way back to the beginning and re-acquaint myself with what we DO know. See you all in a couple of days

 

[wvsoccermom]

I'd be curious to find out if Ashley even breastfed. That's a lot of work and commitment, not to mention time consuming. Breastfeeding is a choice that requires a lot of time and work. I think it's likely she received WIC for formula. Which makes the question of how did Baby A get exposed to drugs repeatedly (IF she did) that much more important, and the answer that much more scary.

I agree again. I doubt she even breastfed.

 

[ANonyMs]

P.S.
Courtney - thanks for chiming in on this medical/drug stuff with Baby A. I know you are an RN and you always seem to be able to break it down where someone like me can understand it!

 

[Jan]

News articles said that Noah's dad smoked marijuana during the time that Noah was missing. If that is the case, with police in the home keeping watch over them, how did he get away with it without the police knowing? Or did the police know and just let it go for the time being. The mom also, it seems was likely to have been drugging during the time that the police were watching over them.

 

[Zuri]

http://m.pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/134/2/e547.abstract.
It says that morphine is commonly given to treat babies with this syndrome. If she managed to give birth without anyone knowing the baby was addicted...got home with a cranky baby...decided to treat the baby herself? That would explain the respiratory issues as well. This just helps confirm my suspicions from the beginning. Those kids were drugged and I bet Noah was accidentally overdosed. Just my opinion of course.

Jumping off your post:
Have you all heard the term "crack babies"? These children are born addicted, have developmental issues and delays, both motor and verbal. Proper care has to be given to these babies, as they can die if withdrawn from the narcotic suddenly. Also seize. They are also of low birth weight and don't meet milestones. Some cognitive issues also.

I am wondering if AW was using and breast feeding. I wonder if that baby was still addicted or reintroduced to the drugs via breast milk.

 

[LietKynes]

Just jumping on here and marking my spot. Thanks everyone for the updates.
This thread is making me feel sad for the baby sister; I want her to be able to have a long and healthy life !
Hopefully she's in good, capable hands.
MOO

 

[ANonyMs]

Ok, I didn't get far in my quest to go back to the beginning. I just went back to the beginning of *today*.

I clearly WAY over thought Baby A's diagnosis and failed to pay attention to what was right in front of me.

"In court on Wednesday, Pulaski County Commonwealth's Attorney Mike Fleenor said that medical records show Abigail was born with neonatal abstinence syndrome, meaning she was born addicted to a narcotic or opiate. Fleenor also said she presently is still diagnosed with it." (bbm)

http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/p...cle_aaa281f8-adc0-533d-b1db-e420fa5455da.html

So, now knowing the time frames of how long the effects last, withdrawls, etc...I bow to those who have said she could have been born with it and then was continued to be exposed. And how could she continue to be exposed? Breastmilk or intentional dosing seem to be the only two options, right?

Off to make more brilliant deductions from information that has been in front of my face the whole time.

 

[menmo]

Do we even know if the baby was born at the hospital?
Could she have been born at home?

 

[courtneyb]

Jumping off your post:
Have you all heard the term "crack babies"? These children are born addicted, have developmental issues and delays, both motor and verbal. Proper care has to be given to these babies, as they can die if withdrawn from the narcotic suddenly. Also seize. They are also of low birth weight and don't meet milestones. Some cognitive issues also.

I am wondering if AW was using and breast feeding. I wonder if that baby was still addicted or reintroduced to the drugs via breast milk.

Generally, babies exposed to crack and alcohol habitually in pregnancy have many more long term hurdles to deal with than those born addicted to heroin or opiates. Those babies, once weaned, usually do quite well. They may initially have failure to thrive, decreased suck reflex, etc., But those things usually resolve quickly once the addiction is diagnosed, they are weaned and ARE NOT EXPOSED to drugs further.

And, in my opinion, she likely was not the type of mother who took on the very difficult, time consuming chore of breastfeeding.

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[wvsoccermom]

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1752-1947-5-288.pdf

Really interesting download here.

 

[Queen Bee]

hello all..........question...........can i post something from the reporter orly salinas' facebook? couldn't we do that before since he's a journalist?

mods?