VA - Scott Fricker, 48, & Buckley Kuhn-Fricker, 43, slain, Reston, 22 Dec 2017 *daughter’s bf charged*

[rsd1200]

My different reports, the girl's parents had been trying to address the situation, limiting their time together, limiting phone and social media, and apparently monitoring their social media interaction - so the teens went to faked accounts and secret twitter communications. It doesn't sound as if the girl's parents were ignoring or just hoping it would go away. The sneaking in to their home at night, combined with discovering his heavier than perhaps realized involvement in the whole neo-nazi group, showed a terrible disrespect, hate, anger - he wasn't just proselytizing to their daughter, he was trying to alienate her from them and they had to do something more drastic than they had already been doing. Contacting his parents and the school weren't the first steps they took IMO. We don't know what the boy's parents were trying to do for him yet, they did have him in the private school, the neighbors knew him as very troubled. Most rational kids and adults will accept realities of certain situations, but these two didn't, and him coming armed to their house when he expected them to be asleep shows a planning, and need to control/manipulate that's not normal, but more abusive than anything else. Was he there to push the situation to dramatic confrontation or try to convince her to run away with him? She will have told the police that by now, hopefully. There's true-love-romeo-juliet style and then there's angry-controlling-who-are-you kind. Sneaking in 5am, armed to anyone's home is confrontational. We don't know if she knew he was coming, but when he hurt her parents, she called the police. She didn't side with him, she didn't comfort him - so while she was on phone with police screaming for help for her parents, he shot himself.

I don't know if she thought he'd kill them, if she knew he'd come armed, or just wanted a quickie, etc... but she had to have let him in, against her parent's orders. He didn't reach through that window/door and unlock it himself. He may have been trying to get her to run away with him, or just reaffirming their luvvv. She may have told him no, it's over, sorry, I just let you in to tell you in person, before I saw you at school, in a week, uhm, hmmm. However, if she let him inside that house, she has to accept partial blame for her actions. Just as mine had to accept partial blame for bringing a thief onto our farm, who he'd strictly been told never to bring on the farm, or to our home, and it just so happened about three weeks later, everything stored there went missing. My son has never stolen from us. Never. But he brought a known thief, (a young man I'd know a long time), onto the farm, to help him, and as a result, lots of stuff grew legs and walked away, a few short weeks later. My kid bore some responsibility b/c he brought him on the farm. Had the boy not been brought there, he'd not have known the stuff was there. People have to take responsibility for their own actions. She was in that school for a reason, too. His parents, if they allowed him free access to firearms, and did not try to curb his behaviour, will have to accept their part in this too (that's a no brainer here). I took the shrieking to be the ten year old brother's as the LEO pulled onto the scene. I've not heard her, in particular, on a 911 call.

 

[borndem]

It is a problem. They only have other kids like themselves in their peer group. Mine was in the alt school during 6-7th grade, and the lovely name they gave it didn't change what it was. We tried boarding school, briefly (not good, the worst decision we made.). We live in a small town and I had friends with kids his age, or very close to his age, and attended the same school, so he was close with them growing up, and is still friends with most. Some had their ups and downs but for the most part were good kids. I discouraged hanging with the kids who were getting into trouble but, again, it's a small community, and mine was one of the ones getting into trouble, :facepalm: so, I just monitored in stealth mode, but mine had friends from a variety of backgrounds.

I think it would be helpful to troubled kids to be with "normal" kinds, but they have already had their chance at that -- for how ever many years -- and they blew it. Certainly most of those youths had help going down the wrong path, but some, I'm fairly certain, were headed the wrong way regardless. Again, they surely knew that if their behavior consistently improved, they would be able to go back to a regular school, I'm sure there were positive results with many of them. It's a tuff problem.

 

[rsd1200]

I understand what the county school system was trying to do -- give the truly troubled students a way to become better fit for life, to be able to return to "regular" school and graduate, and to take the trouble-makers out of a class where their actions can ruin whole days of teaching & learning. Some school system probably have only one alternative -- expulsion -- and then what happens to those troubled youths?? Some are certainly worth saving and do become good students and citizens. But I'll say it one more time -- surely some of the TDS staff knew about the young man and knew that he was really out-of-bounds -- even at this school. And surely the staff discussed it with his parents -- if not, the school was doing a poor, poor job for everyone concerned. Did his parents just try & fail? That's where the probable diagnosis (IANAD) of his being a sociopath seems to be correct. Since sociopaths have no insight or notion of what their actions may do or cause and do not care, then we have a human being just waiting to do something horrible. JMHO.

BBM
I think this was the case. He was beyond odd and had moved to anti-social personality disorder. A whole different animal.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I don't know if she thought he'd kill them, if she knew he'd come armed, or just wanted a quickie, etc... but she had to have let him in, against her parent's orders. He didn't reach through that window/door and unlock it himself. He may have been trying to get her to run away with him, or just reaffirming their luvvv. She may have told him no, it's over, sorry, I just let you in to tell you in person, before I saw you at school, in a week, uhm, hmmm. However, if she let him inside that house, she has to accept partial blame for her actions. Just as mine had to accept partial blame for bringing a thief onto our farm, who he'd strictly been told never to bring on the farm, or to our home, and it just so happened about three weeks later, everything stored there went missing. My son has never stolen from us. Never. But he brought a known thief, (a young man I'd know a long time), onto the farm, to help him, and as a result, lots of stuff grew legs and walked away, a few short weeks later. My kid bore some responsibility b/c he brought him on the farm. Had the boy not been brought there, he'd not have known the stuff was there. People have to take responsibility for their own actions. She was in that school for a reason, too. His parents, if they allowed him free access to firearms, and did not try to curb his behaviour, will have to accept their part in this too (that's a no brainer here). I took the shrieking to be the ten year old brother's as the LEO pulled onto the scene. I've not heard her, in particular, on a 911 call.

BBM

Yes, there are articles describing the child being led from the house screaming.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[rsd1200]

I think it would be helpful to troubled kids to be with "normal" kinds, but they have already had their chance at that -- for how ever many years -- and they blew it. Certainly most of those youths had help going down the wrong path, but some, I'm fairly certain, were headed the wrong way regardless. Again, they surely knew that if their behavior consistently improved, they would be able to go back to a regular school, I'm sure there were positive results with many of them. It's a tuff problem.

It is, especially for families without resources, or the know how, to handle them (or the will, to handle them). My ex could not handle our son at all. By the time our son was 14 he was telling his father what to do. His father even allowed him to call him by his given name, or nickname. He told him what he was going to do, where, whatever, and my ex allowed him to do anything he wished, in his home, from the day we split. He allowed him to do anything he wanted prior to the split, and told him in no uncertain terms that he did not have to listen to me and I knew nothing. Yet, the therapist pointed fingers at me. He helped our son on his negative journey then called me when our son was in county, to see what "we" could do. I told I didn't know if he had a mouse in his pocket, but "I" was going to let him sit in the tank. smh.

 

[Lilibet]

So well written! Thank you, Lilibet. You are my hero!

:loveyou::blushing:

 

[borndem]

I hope the daughter is placed in a good residential program for awhile. I would not be surprised if she is currently suicidal. But the quickest way to get teens help and also to de-program them after experiencing manipulation is a good inpatient residential program.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Seems to me that your idea might be a good one -- and I worry about her harming herself as well. Is there anyone she would trust to help her make or understand a decision to go to a residential program? And if she were to go to a residential program -- and apparently there are some good ones if you have the bucks -- would her little brother benefit from this or would it cause him extra anxiety about "losing" (since she will be away) another family member? And what is/will be her situation regarding the murder crime? Investigations are just now getting started. Might they consider her an accomplice? After the fact; before the fact.; aiding and abetting? (Just thinking aloud here -- not even an opinion, just a thought re LE.) Damm, this thing is nothing but a big, fat, rip-your-heart-out mess.

 

[Gardenista]

Seems to me that your idea might be a good one -- and I worry about her harming herself as well. Is there anyone she would trust to help her make or understand a decision to go to a residential program? And if she were to go to a residential program -- and apparently there are some good ones if you have the bucks -- would her little brother benefit from this or would it cause him extra anxiety about "losing" (since she will be away) another family member? And what is/will be her situation regarding the murder crime? Investigations are just now getting started. Might they consider her an accomplice? After the fact; before the fact.; aiding and abetting? (Just thinking aloud here -- not even an opinion, just a thought re LE.) Damm, this thing is nothing but a big, fat, rip-your-heart-out mess.

From what I read on one of the GFMs it looks like the plan is for 10 y.o. to live w/ dad's bro in SC. Nothing was said about where sister is going.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Seems to me that your idea might be a good one -- and I worry about her harming herself as well. Is there anyone she would trust to help her make or understand a decision to go to a residential program? And if she were to go to a residential program -- and apparently there are some good ones if you have the bucks -- would her little brother benefit from this or would it cause him extra anxiety about "losing" (since she will be away) another family member? And what is/will be her situation regarding the murder crime? Investigations are just now getting started. Might they consider her an accomplice? After the fact; before the fact.; aiding and abetting? (Just thinking aloud here -- not even an opinion, just a thought re LE.) Damm, this thing is nothing but a big, fat, rip-your-heart-out mess.

I'll just say that my experience with residential at that age is that 1- they don't have to convince her, 2- surely she already had a psychiatrist who would have contacted LE the minute all this went down and suggested she be put in residential.

No, I don't believe her little brother should go necessarily - not at his age. I suggest it for her because of her previous stuff. Perhaps both of the teens should have been headed there prior to this.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[rsd1200]

From what I read on one of the GFMs it looks like the plan is for 10 y.o. to live w/ dad's bro in SC. Nothing was said about where sister is going.

I think this is best. I can't see putting him in residential at this point. He needs a circle of family around him right now. If he should start showing signs that point that way, later on then, re-think. I would not bring sis into my home though, if it were me. There is only so much you can do with a child who has these diags and troubles. It's truly heartbreaking. I know some on here may think I'm cold toward daughter, but I'm being realistic. I'd want her nowhere near my family. I had to make a very tough choice because of not wanting the very damaged mother, of my grandchild, in our lives (wayward son's gf). I get anxiety just thinking about the situation (actually had a literal heart attack at the time). Again, ya can't save everyone. That little boy needs some space.

 

[Beautybee123]

You have said that you were a rebellious child. Would forbidding you from seeing a boy that you were heads over heels with worked with you?

I was also a very rebellious child. I was a master liar and manipulator. I started to hang with the wrong crowd and experimented with drugs. I snuck out regularly at night and would take the school bus to school, get off at school and leave campus for the day to hangout. My parents had an alarm system installed in our house to keep me in at night. Little did they know I managed to remove the sensors on the bathroom window and would still sneak in and out (this was 20 years ago and alarm systems are probably better now). After I became blackout drunk at 17 and was brought to the ER my parents finally realized the extent of my deceit. It led to me having to sleep on my parents bedroom floor every night and my mom walking me into my classroom everyday until they learned to trust me again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[borndem]

BBM

Private school, they can expel for anything. Very different from a public school. And if he had used the school wifi to access any questionable sites, that could be tracked (I have no doubt they monitor what is being accessed through their wifi).

And I do agree about treading lightly, even without the neo nazi stuff. I'd be afraid of them taking off together, or causing a long term rift between myself and my child.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

bbm

Agreed - that is why I think the Frickers were not more adamant/stern about this "boyfriend" business, and about being more restrictive with her phone privileges with him -- they may have been afraid that she would sneak off and leave home with him. They knew her, I would think, well enuff to know that if they were severe with threats or promises or punishments what she might do -- hurt herself, leave home, refuse to eat, bathe, get out of bed, go to school, etc., etc. They knew all too well why she had to go to TDS in the first place. That's prolly one reason why they appealed to his parents. You can push just so hard, especially on a rebellious teen. Rock & a hard place, that one.

 

[borndem]

The new guardian will have a long road ahead and a big challenge. She's very, very, close to 18, add this on top of the fact we know she was in Dominion, the psychological trauma of what's happened, and whoever agrees to take her, best get prepared. I hope I'm wrong, but there's a photo of the two of them floating around out there and their eyes match. In all of his photos, his eyes are the same. Sullen, and no light. Maybe others see something that I'm not seeing though.

Would you direct me to that photo, if possible? I'd like to see their expressions, etc. Thanks much!

 

[rsd1200]

I was also a very rebellious child. I was a master liar and manipulator. I started to hang with the wrong crowd and experimented with drugs. I snuck out regularly at night and would take the school bus to school, get off at school and leave campus for the day to hangout. My parents had an alarm system installed in our house to keep me in at night. Little did they know I managed to remove the sensors on the bathroom window and would still sneak in and out (this was 20 years ago and alarm systems are probably better now). After I became blackout drunk at 17 and was brought to the ER my parents finally realized the extent of my deceit. It led to me having to sleep on my parents bedroom floor every night and my mom walking me into my classroom everyday until they learned to trust me again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, mine never knew I snuck out, but, you were good! I almost died of alcohol poisoning too. They walked me all night. I thought I was going to die the next day. I did the same with the school thing. I'd get on the bus in the a.m., Mom would watch us off every morning, and once they called roll in homeroom that was the last they worried about it back then. I was an introvert in school. No one noticed me. If they'd had goths back then, I'd have been one. When the teacher would step out of the room, me, sitting in the back, I'd just duck out the window (No one ever ratted me out or they just never noticed I was gone, probably the latter... :thinking. When Dad finally found out, not to mention that I was nearly failing h.s., I'd missed so many days (I even had a dup report card), he and my Mommma had a conference with the principle, sans me. Next day at school, they sat me in a room, alone, with nothing but a desk, for the entire school day, for 10 days. It was pure torture. I was given work to complete after that, to catch up and give me a shot at getting my diploma (I did get it). However, a week after, as miserable as those 10 days of in-school detention were, I skipped for senior skip day, didn't go home after, laid out drunk, and showed up to school the next day, reeking, with an injury that needed stitches. I later got it together, furthered my education, and have a good life, but I still have to have an outlet. For me it's mostly concerts and motorcycles. I gotta blow off steam now and then, still, but I've learned how to do it safely, and sanely. I don't know that my parents' trust in me has ever been fully repaired. I was an extremely well-behaved child & a good student, until about age 14. Everything I did from that point on, was polar opposite of how I was brought up. Had to be a total slap in the face to my parents, who were/are wonderful parents and didn't deserve it.

 

[rsd1200]

bbm

Agreed - that is why I think the Frickers were not more adamant/stern about this "boyfriend" business, and about being more restrictive with her phone privileges with him -- they may have been afraid that she would sneak off and leave home with him. They knew her, I would think, well enuff to know that if they were severe with threats or promises or punishments what she might do -- hurt herself, leave home, refuse to eat, bathe, get out of bed, go to school, etc., etc. They knew all too well why she had to go to TDS in the first place. That's prolly one reason why they appealed to his parents. You can push just so hard, especially on a rebellious teen. Rock & a hard place, that one.

You have a good point. Looking back, that's probably why my Dad decided to scare the Hell out of mine rather than stop it completely. Dad was respected in the community and knew the sheriff so he told the guy I was seeing,(future spouse), who they mightily disapproved of, that if he took me across a state line he'd have the hammer drop on him so fast he'd not know what had hit him. So in the state we stayed til I turned 18.

 

[rsd1200]

Would you direct me to that photo, if possible? I'd like to see their expressions, etc. Thanks much!

There is a photo of the two in Everipedia under a wiki bearing the name of amelia-khun-fricker. The mother's eyes are full of light. At the bottom of the page there is a pic of the two kids together. I see no light there, even with them being together. It may just be that particular picture but the photo of him, holding the firearm, that seems to lack that light too. I tend to look at folk's eyes. They are the window to the soul, however, a photo is only one instant in time.

 

[courtney2662]

Would you direct me to that photo, if possible? I'd like to see their expressions, etc. Thanks much!

https://www.google.com/search?q=nic...WDSN8KHc5yDIYQsAQIVw&biw=1536&bih=750#imgrc=_

 

[courtney2662]

There is a photo of the two in Everipedia under a wiki bearing the name of amelia-khun-fricker. The mother's eyes are full of light. At the bottom of the page there is a pic of the two kids together. I see no light there, even with them being together. It may just be that particular picture but the photo of him, holding the firearm, that seems to lack that light too. I tend to look at folk's eyes. They are the window to the soul, however, a photo is only one instant in time.

There seems to be a lot of hate, prejudice and anger in the family, I don't know how much help the family were to the son. This is sister tweet is ginagiampa. not pretty.

 

[borndem]

There is a photo of the two in Everipedia under a wiki bearing the name of amelia-khun-fricker. The mother's eyes are full of light. At the bottom of the page there is a pic of the two kids together. I see no light there, even with them being together. It may just be that particular picture but the photo of him, holding the firearm, that seems to lack that light too. I tend to look at folk's eyes. They are the window to the soul, however, a photo is only one instant in time.

Thanks, rsd -- I also look at people's eyes -- you're right about a photo possibly not showing the soul (for lack of better words) of the person, and sometimes a photo is just not very good, but I do think you can sense happiness, fear, worry, etc., etc., at a particular moment.

 

[Lilibet]

Reminder: We can’t name the boyfriend (juvenile) on the thread until he’s named in MSM. His family is off limits too, even then. I expect the Fricker girl can’t be discussed either, even though she was named in the obit.