VA - Scott Fricker, 48, & Buckley Kuhn-Fricker, 43, slain, Reston, 22 Dec 2017 *daughter’s bf charged*

[beandawgs]

I understand. I am absolutely against the Nazi propaganda. We should never forget, lest history repeat itself. We have a duty to speak out against such beliefs. I don't know his home-life. The Nazi stuff may have been to generate shock, and attention, (bad attention is still attention) but, I honestly think he'd fallen in with someone online, or gotten onto a Nazi Party / White Supremacist site, and, with his particular problems, he felt welcome. He's probably isolated, few, if any, friends, angry, and he gets into some chat-room... We've seen the banter on certain boards, but we're adults. If the parents are Nazis and have a troubled child, that, imo, could cause them to miss some pretty big red flags. The Nazi Party/White Supremacists are not looking for this kind of media. They want the media attention where someone punches, a peaceful Nazi Party member, who is just fulfilling his right to peaceably assemble. /S

If this were me, I'd have put the skids on it back in the summer, when she was bragging about her new bf's, very flawed, knowledge of history. There would not have been seven months of two hours per night phone calls and I'd take to sleeping in her room with a ball glove and a bat so I could be ready to go to ball practice in the morning.

You would have been the parent from hell That's the not so good thing about the kinds of special schools, especially at their ages - too isolated, no exposure to normal kids - teens thrive on relationships with their peers, and they don't have a great bunch to pick from in such a small, isolated setting. When my younger autistic son was in such a class that was one of my worries I didn't want him only exposed to troubled kids, fortunately the school did good on getting him back into a regular class, socializing with 'normal' kids. I was thrilled beyond compare when he hit 4th grade and did not want others to know he was ever in such a class - not because I wanted him to be ashamed but I didn't want him identifying with troubled kids.

 

[beandawgs]

Oh God bless the peaceful Nazi supporters. Poor misunderstood little petals that they are

I think RSD was trying to say is that white supremacists want folks to believe they're just exercising their right to express themselves - I think we all understand what they are about.

 

[beandawgs]

I think you are right on the anti-social personality disorder (IANAD though). My seven y/o would get it, explained age appropriately, of course. That's what I meant earlier about him not having a chance. I think he was wired wrong from the git-go. It's very sad that this sort of disorder happens in folks, but it does.

I went to a professional conference once on anti-social personality disorder - my takeaway was that basically they only treatment is that the person must always experience consequences for everything and keep your loved ones away from someone with anti social personality disorder. I was hoping to learn some great unknown techniques or insight. But no.

 

[rsd1200]

You would have been the parent from hell That's the not so good thing about the kinds of special schools, especially at their ages - too isolated, no exposure to normal kids - teens thrive on relationships with their peers, and they don't have a great bunch to pick from in such a small, isolated setting. When my younger autistic son was in such a class that was one of my worries I didn't want him only exposed to troubled kids, fortunately the school did good on getting him back into a regular class, socializing with 'normal' kids. I was thrilled beyond compare when he hit 4th grade and did not want others to know he was ever in such a class - not because I wanted him to be ashamed but I didn't want him identifying with troubled kids.

It is a problem. They only have other kids like themselves in their peer group. Mine was in the alt school during 6-7th grade, and the lovely name they gave it didn't change what it was. We tried boarding school, briefly (not good, the worst decision we made.). We live in a small town and I had friends with kids his age, or very close to his age, and attended the same school, so he was close with them growing up, and is still friends with most. Some had their ups and downs but for the most part were good kids. I discouraged hanging with the kids who were getting into trouble but, again, it's a small community, and mine was one of the ones getting into trouble, :facepalm: so, I just monitored in stealth mode, but mine had friends from a variety of backgrounds.

 

[rsd1200]

I think RSD was trying to say is that white supremacists want folks to believe they're just exercising their right to express themselves - I think we all understand what they are about.

That's exactly what they want. I listened to a couple of the reformed ones speak, and they said the "Punch A Nazi" thing played right into their agenda.

 

[rsd1200]

I went to a professional conference once on anti-social personality disorder - my takeaway was that basically they only treatment is that the person must always experience consequences for everything and keep your loved ones away from someone with anti social personality disorder. I was hoping to learn some great unknown techniques or insight. But no.

Yes and yes.
I was told that too. I was also told to keep up the negative consequences. That the consequence had to be something that would make them stop and think (it goes for o.d.d. too). Honestly ASPDs can blend right in though so it's hard to keep away unless you know someone has this disorder. They can mimic, and be quite charming. That's the thing with them, you don't know til it's too late, and then, we hear folks say, "He was a quiet man, kept to himself. Waved to him at the mailbox." How many times have you heard something like that after they find body parts in someone's basement. I think this kid was on the fast track. If he hadn't killed them that night, he'd have killed someone soon. She may have been the only person he'd developed any type of bond with, in a long time, and maybe the same for her, and they were not giving that up. Just a guess.

 

[Lilibet]

<snipped for relevance>

The Nazi Party/White Supremacists are not looking for this kind of media. They want the media attention where someone punches, a peaceful Nazi Party member, who is just fulfilling his right to peaceably assemble. /S

BBM

Love your sticky sweet sarcasm!

Oh God bless the peaceful Nazi supporters. Poor misunderstood little petals that they are

And more sarcasm.

You obviously have a problem with me. That is not what I meant at all.

I think Jennifer was echoing your sarcasm. Too well, maybe.

I think RSD was trying to say is that white supremacists want folks to believe they're just exercising their right to express themselves - I think we all understand what they are about.

Yes, that’s what white supremicists want us to believe, and to view them as victims of antifa. Here’s an example from Eugene, Oregon, “hotbed” of liberalism, of all places. Oh, and they’re not white supremicists. They have “white pride” (shades of Sheri Papini). It’s a long read, but worth it to understand how secretly supremicists can operate. Oregon is full of them. There is a very dark history of racism and Ku Klux Klan activity in Oregon that still lurks in attitudes. I think the author gave the supremicist too much air time though. The supremicist just drips of victimhood in her statement.

[FONT=&amp]An owner of a state-licensed cannabis testing business in Eugene said she has taken steps to sever ties to her company after local activists alleged she participates in neo-Nazi activites.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Bethany Sherman, listed in state records as managing member and CEO of OG Analytical, said Wednesday she is stepping down from the company she founded in 2013 and plans to sell the lab.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]In a lengthy written response to Eugene Antifa's claims that she is associated with white power groups, the Eugene resident denied being a neo-Nazi and said her only "crime is a thought crime."
[/FONT]
Well, if baking swastika shaped cookies for a birthday celebration for Hitler is a “thought crime” I guess I just cook in my mind. She and her husband have managed to keep their “thoughts” very quiet. None of their employees knew. Double life. But now the poor misunderstood businesswoman and mother is a victim of mean nasty antifa.

I’m still trying to wrap my mind around a white supremicist being involved in the cannabis industry. The times they are a-changin’.

http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2017/12/eugene_cannabis_lab_owner_plan.html

 

[rsd1200]

BBM

Love your sticky sweet sarcasm!



And more sarcasm.



I think Jennifer was echoing your sarcasm. Too well, maybe.



Yes, that&#8217;s what white supremicists want us to believe, and to view them as victims of antifa. Here&#8217;s an example from Eugene, Oregon, &#8220;hotbed&#8221; of liberalism, of all places. Oh, and they&#8217;re not white supremicists. They have &#8220;white pride&#8221; (shades of Sheri Papini). It&#8217;s a long read, but worth it to understand how secretly supremicists can operate. Oregon is full of them. There is a very dark history of racism and Ku Klux Klan activity in Oregon that still lurks in attitudes. I think the author gave the supremicist too much air time though. The supremicist just drips of victimhood in her statement.

[FONT=&amp]An owner of a state-licensed cannabis testing business in Eugene said she has taken steps to sever ties to her company after local activists alleged she participates in neo-Nazi activites.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Bethany Sherman, listed in state records as managing member and CEO of OG Analytical, said Wednesday she is stepping down from the company she founded in 2013 and plans to sell the lab.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]In a lengthy written response to Eugene Antifa's claims that she is associated with white power groups, the Eugene resident denied being a neo-Nazi and said her only "crime is a thought crime."
[/FONT]
Well, if baking swastika shaped cookies for a birthday celebration for Hitler is a &#8220;thought crime&#8221; I guess I just cook in my mind. She and her husband have managed to keep their &#8220;thoughts&#8221; very quiet. None of their employees knew. Double life. But now the poor misunderstood businesswoman and mother is a victim of mean nasty antifa.

I&#8217;m still trying to wrap my mind around a white supremicist being involved in the cannabis industry. The times they are a-changin&#8217;.

http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2017/12/eugene_cannabis_lab_owner_plan.html

O/T Cannabis and Nazis? You'd think it would chill them out. I'd have not seen that mix coming!

I normally try to put the /s on my sarcasm, but, forget to do so at times. Things can get misconstrued easily on the net, and this is a hot topic case.

When hate came to Appalachia, we let them know they were not welcome. My region is often no spoken highly of , but we don't want it here, either.

Ain't No Hate Allowed in These Hollers
https://extranewsfeed.com/aint-no-hate-allowed-up-in-these-hollers-32160f279e89

Appalshop Artist Design
http://www.dailyyonder.com/nohateinmyholler-became-war-cry-appalachia/2017/08/30/21116/

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I hope the daughter is placed in a good residential program for awhile. I would not be surprised if she is currently suicidal. But the quickest way to get teens help and also to de-program them after experiencing manipulation is a good inpatient residential program.

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[Doghairrules]

I hope the daughter is placed in a good residential program for awhile. I would not be surprised if she is currently suicidal. But the quickest way to get teens help and also to de-program them after experiencing manipulation is a good inpatient residential program.

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I agree. And an added benefit to that may be giving time for the new guardian to get up to speed on strategies for helping her.

 

[Cryptic]

I don't understand nor agree with anyone trying to put the blame on the Fricker parents. Their job was to raise their daughter and protect their own family. They did the best they could, but without cooperation from the killer's family, they had few cards to play.

Good point. If anything, the parents of the young man failed badly.

Given the totality of the situation, they had an ethical responsibility to dial down their own politics. In short, they did not need to make mainstream conservative politics an active part of their lives by posting political messages on Facebook etc. Likewise, parents with a potentially violent son infatuated with leftist extremism would not need to make mainstream leftist politics an active part of their lives either.

Then, the parents evidently gave their son easy access to a weapon. If, this is the case and the son easy obtained the weapon from his home, it seems like criminal negligence given the totality of the situation:

- Parents know that son was mentally disturbed, probably knew that he had real potential for violence
- Knew that he was infatuated with a girl.
- Knew that the girl's parents were not supportive of the relationship, yet their son was continuing it.
- Knew that he had developed extremist beliefs (does not matter what sort, or show he developed them).

 

[kaen]

BBM

Private school, they can expel for anything. Very different from a public school. And if he had used the school wifi to access any questionable sites, that could be tracked (I have no doubt they monitor what is being accessed through their wifi).

And I do agree about treading lightly, even without the neo nazi stuff. I'd be afraid of them taking off together, or causing a long term rift between myself and my child.

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Many private schools have technology policies that include personal behavior that is unbecoming based on the school's stated values or mission. In many schools, students do not have a right to privacy. The mom may have sent the account screen shots based on that policy.

 

[kaen]

In reading some of the posts, I am surprised that there seems to be a questioning of the murdered parent's behavior/choices. His killing them showed that he was a clear danger to them.

 

[Cryptic]

Private school, they can expel for anything. Very different from a public school.

Is it a private school?

My impression is that the school in question is maintained and run by the school district as a separate school for troubled students. Though public school students don't have absolute rights to free speech / continued school attendance either, it is probably very difficult to expel a public school student over speech made off campus.

 

[rsd1200]

I agree. And an added benefit to that may be giving time for the new guardian to get up to speed on strategies for helping her.

The new guardian will have a long road ahead and a big challenge. She's very, very, close to 18, add this on top of the fact we know she was in Dominion, the psychological trauma of what's happened, and whoever agrees to take her, best get prepared. I hope I'm wrong, but there's a photo of the two of them floating around out there and their eyes match. In all of his photos, his eyes are the same. Sullen, and no light. Maybe others see something that I'm not seeing though.

 

[Lilibet]

In reading some of the posts, I am surprised that there seems to be a questioning of the murdered parent's behavior/choices. His killing them showed that he was a clear danger to them.

Yes, killing them did show that he was a clear danger to them. We don’t know if they realized the extent of the danger though. And we also don’t know that anything they did or didn’t do put them in more danger. They did the best they could and got killed. Can we learn anything at all from this situation, without being disrespectful of the Frickers? I think we can try.

I don’t think it’s questioning their behavior/choices to hypothetically discuss alternate choices, which is not at all the same as blaming the victim, as has been alleged. It’s a way of analyzing other possibilities that might have produced another outcome and that could be applied in other similar situations. Some folks here have kids and it’s wise IMO to think about options. When schools have a shooting incident, for example, you can be sure that the response within the school is later picked apart and analyzed in order to provide even more security in the future. Same thing with an officer-involved-shooting. Avoiding that conversation isn’t productive in a school, police department or in any other situation.

We have many opportunities here on WS to learn from different situations. I appreciate being able to discuss various options with a view to applying them if needed or just examining and broadening my own outlook. I apologize if that comes across as questioning someone’s choices or blaming them. That’s not at all my intent and I don’t see others having that intent either. No one is to blame but the boyfriend. So how do we protect ourselves from someone like that?

 

[rsd1200]

In reading some of the posts, I am surprised that there seems to be a questioning of the murdered parent's behavior/choices. His killing them showed that he was a clear danger to them.

I don't question their stopping it, I question them allowing it to go on from June to Christmas. They knew in the summer, knew his flawed beliefs, and had known that she was letting him in her room too, and yet allowed her to continue you to have contact. Not their best course of action, but, again, kids don't come with a manual. They were possibly trying to keep as much peace in the household as possible, over the summer, I'd guess.

When you have kids with the types of behaviour problems, especially ones that warrant them being in this type of school, home is a battleground, many times. I'd still have squashed the relationship back in the summer, before it got hot and heavy, but that's just me. I just told my adult one a few months back, not to ever bring a particular female to my home again. Not a gf, just a friend. If he did, there'd be consequences. He knew I meant it, and she never came back. I felt for the girl, very polite, sweet, kid, but had a big problem. As much as I'd like, I can't save the world.

 

[enelram]

The new guardian will have a long road ahead and a big challenge. She's very, very, close to 18, add this on top of the fact we know she was in Dominion, the psychological trauma of what's happened, and whoever agrees to take her, best get prepared. I hope I'm wrong, but there's a photo of the two of them floating around out there and their eyes match. In all of his photos, his eyes are the same. Sullen, and no light. Maybe others see something that I'm not seeing though.

Something I noticed on the mom's and daughter's facebooks, in every single photo of the daughter for the past several years, she had an impudent look on her face. No smile ever but more of an attitude in her photos. I wonder if her
acting out and crossing her parents hadn't been coming on for a long time.

 

[rsd1200]

Something I noticed on the mom's and daughter's facebooks, in every single photo of the daughter for the past several years, she had an impudent look on her face. No smile ever but more of an attitude in her photos. I wonder if her
acting out and crossing her parents hadn't been coming on for a long time.

Oh, I don't doubt that they'd not been having problems with her for awhile. Maybe since early adolescence. She did something pretty on edge to get into that school. I think they saw an opportunity to have the family intervention, at Christmas, (one of the most anxiety filled holidays on the calendar), and coax her to break it off with her bad boy, Nazi-loving, sweetheart, and she acquiesced, in front of them. Then, Mom puts the quote about "good men standing by", on her FB, and that not only fueled daughter's anxiety, and rage, at the situation, she wants bf to know it was all an act on her part, lets him in that early morning, and the $hlt hits the proverbial fan. That's just my take. I don't see the daughter as some innocent in this, at this juncture. If he was trying to get into a locked window, there was plenty of time for her to run screaming out of her bedroom, and dial 911. Just my take.

 

[Doghairrules]

Yes, killing them did show that he was a clear danger to them. We don’t know if they realized the extent of the danger though. And we also don’t know that anything they did or didn’t do put them in more danger. They did the best they could and got killed. Can we learn anything at all from this situation, without being disrespectful of the Frickers? I think we can try.

I don’t think it’s questioning their behavior/choices to hypothetically discuss alternate choices, which is not at all the same as blaming the victim, as has been alleged. It’s a way of analyzing other possibilities that might have produced another outcome and that could be applied in other similar situations. Some folks here have kids and it’s wise IMO to think about options. When schools have a shooting incident, for example, you can be sure that the response within the school is later picked apart and analyzed in order to provide even more security in the future. Same thing with an officer-involved-shooting. Avoiding that conversation isn’t productive in a school, police department or in any other situation.

We have many opportunities here on WS to learn from different situations. I appreciate being able to discuss various options with a view to applying them if needed or just examining and broadening my own outlook. I apologize if that comes across as questioning someone’s choices or blaming them. That’s not at all my intent and I don’t see others having that intent either. No one is to blame but the boyfriend. So how do we protect ourselves from someone like that?

So well written! Thank you, Lilibet. You are my hero!