Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder #2

[slowsleuthy]

Ya, because the plan was to kill at the farm (my opinion of course) and not in the truck on a side road or highway. Don't you find it odd that it appears they are headed for the highway in the bobcat video? You can see the highway in the background and im pretty sure there is a ramp near the bobcat dealer. Then after that stop, they pull a U turn probably changing from highway to back roads. TB is now dead. So IMO, this is where MS did tell the truth. But MS FORGOT to tell us HIS role in it all....Confinement!! JMO

MS also testified that the window only had a bullet hole in it. He didn't say it was shattered. That window could have been smashed out at the farm or hanger for all we know. I Don't imagine they'd leave a window intact with a bullet hole for everyone to see. After all, DM claimed he bought the truck off some person in Kitchener or was that a dealership lot?!! He couldn't even keep that lie right!

they crossed that hwy at some point then turned onto the bobcate rd, then uturned towards for the farm, that stop was important to them otherwise why risk it... jmo

 

[Alethea Dice]

Ya, because the plan was to kill at the farm (my opinion of course) and not in the truck on a side road or highway. Don't you find it odd that it appears they are headed for the highway in the bobcat video? You can see the highway in the background and im pretty sure there is a ramp near the bobcat dealer. Then after that stop, they pull a U turn probably changing from highway to back roads. TB is now dead. So IMO, this is where MS did tell the truth. But MS FORGOT to tell us HIS role in it all....Confinement!! JMO

MS also testified that the window only had a bullet hole in it. He didn't say it was shattered. That window could have been smashed out at the farm or hanger for all we know. I Don't imagine they'd leave a window intact with a bullet hole for everyone to see. After all, DM claimed he bought the truck off some person in Kitchener or was that a dealership lot?!! He couldn't even keep that lie right!

I'm a little geographically challenged so maybe I have this wrong, but...

I thought they pulled off Paris Road onto Oak Park Road to get to Bobcat. I guess because of which side of the road Bobcat is on (west side of the road?) and because they just pulled over to it. If that's the case, wouldn't they have to do a U turn to go back towards the farm? Why would they go back to the highway? Even if they were on the highway originally, Paris Road looks like the most logical off ramp to take. I thought the road you could see in the background of the video was Paris Road?

 

[saulgoodman]

FWIW, this is a pic of the shattered window in Tim's truck:

IMO, pretty easy to see into.

That's an awful big bullet hole. MS mentioned that he saw a bullet hole. So all the surrounding glass broke away and the bullet hole stayed visible?

 

[deugirtni]

Originally Posted by sillybilly

Apparently OnStar became standard on Dodge vehicles in 2008. Tim's truck was a 2007 (so no OnStar), but I'm not sure we know the year of IT's truck.

I also am unsure of the year but it was said to be newer. Which leads me to think I all of the planning over the year, these clowns never once googled to see when gps started in these diesel trucks?

Not sure if already mentioned, but IT's truck was a 2010:

Adam Carter
• Feb 4 2016 2:53 PM
Igor Tumemenko now being called. He went on a test drive in a similar truck as Bosma's.

Adam Carter
• Feb 4 2016 2:55 PM
Sorry, Tumamenko with an A.

Adam Carter
• Feb 4 2016 2:55 PM
He was selling a Dodge Ram as well.

Adam Carter
• Feb 4 2016 2:56 PM
A 2010, also a diesel.

Adam Carter
• Feb 4 2016 2:56 PM
He was selling it on Kijiji and Autotrader.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I'm a little geographically challenged so maybe I have this wrong, but...

I thought they pulled off Paris Road onto Oak Park Road to get to Bobcat. I guess because of which side of the road Bobcat is on (west side of the road?) and because they just pulled over to it. If that's the case, wouldn't they have to do a U turn to go back towards the farm? Why would they go back to the highway? Even if they were on the highway originally, Paris Road looks like the most logical off ramp to take. I thought the road you could see in the background of the video was Paris Road?

Looked pretty busy. Is Paris Rd busy at night? I thought it looked like the highway in the background.

ETA: I just re read my post. I should have said "it looks like they were heading to the highway". Then after that stop, they pull a U turn probably changing from highway PLANS to backroads to get to the farm.

Lol, I'm geographically challenged as well, so I could be wrong. I've also been typing challenged today..had one post moderator edited already today...Thanks Sillybilly

 

[CJPRINCESS]

That's an awful big bullet hole. MS mentioned that he saw a bullet hole. So all the surrounding glass broke away and the bullet hole stayed visible?

He could have been lying or they could have broken the window out later. I'm thinking there had to have been blood on it. I don't recall any DNA on the remaining window itself?

 

[deugirtni]

Also interesting that, only two days before the additional charges were announced for LB and WM's deaths, MWJ was charged with selling the gun to DM.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...-accused-of-selling-him-alleged-murder-weapon

Very interesting indeed. It has been said that MWJ, being who he is, would *never* rat anyone out due to knowing what the consequences would be for himself within a prison setting, and the just the basic code amongst criminals that ratting out is simply not done. But yet at a later court hearing for MWJ, a pile of charges were dropped against him for seemingly no obvious reason.

I can't seem to locate any MSM articles to verify, however this reporter's website has been acceptable in the past (BBM). If one were to speculate, it may not be a reach to think the charges against MWJ for selling WM's murder weapon to DM, the additional charges laid against DM, MS, and CN, and the dropping of many outstanding charges against MWJ in unrelated cases, are related, imho.:

Crown asks for review of Justice Antonio Di Zio ruling in Matthew Ward-Jackson case
Posted on October 10, 2015
I’m a little late here, but this is an interesting case that deserves to be followed. The Crown’s move to appeal review came on September 9, almost one month to the day after Justice Di Zio’s shocking ruling on August 10 (Note to Ed: Yes, shocking is the word), where he threw out all the charges against Matthew Ward-Jackson aka Big Iisho aka Krucifix14.

Those charges were: Possess Prohibited Firearm with Readily Accessible Ammunition, Possess Firearm Without a License and Registration, Possess Firearm Knowing that He Did Not Have a License or Registration, three counts of Possess Prohibited Device, Possess Prohibited Weapon in Breach of Prohibition Order, four counts of Fail to Comply with Recognizance, Possess Cocaine for the Purpose of Trafficking, and Possess Proceeds of Crime.

The firearm in question was a headline-making AK-47.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...-accused-of-selling-him-alleged-murder-weapon

 

[deugirtni]

He could have been lying or they could have broken the window out later. I'm thinking there had to have been blood on it. I don't recall any DNA on the remaining window itself?

They definitely could have broken the window out later, after the event, but before LE got the truck, so as not to show an obvious bullet hole. But if they were going to do that, then why leave that small portion of the bottom of the window still intact within the frame? (I suppose unless it was rolled down to that level and so it was never thought about?). In any case, it is completely not imaginable for me to think that SS and AJ were not aware of more than they were saying. Note that the below tweets by AC (BBM) say that all of the 'other' windows were rolled down? Does that mean the front passenger window 'wasn't' rolled down? With all of the windows in the down position, and SS nosing around undoubtedly, and AJ nosing around by his own admission, how is it possible they wouldn't have had a terrible feeling and known more than they admitted to when looking at that truck, considering seats removed, blood wiped on the outside, box, and inside (even though perhaps not large areas), shattered front passenger window, interior carpet removed?

• Feb 16 2016 11:01 AM
Now seeing photos of the front passenger side window. It's broken out - shattered.
Adam Carter

• Feb 16 2016 11:01 AM
"Glass was collected earlier on. I used tweezers - we had to take glass from the frame itself," McLellan says.
Adam Carter

• Feb 16 2016 11:03 AM
All the other windows in the truck were down. Police used "special gloves" as to not cut their hands to take the glass out.
Adam Carter

• Feb 16 2016 11:04 AM
Court now seeing a picture of the window out of the truck, laid on the ground. The top is shattered, and there are spiderwebs of cracks on the bottom part of the window.
Adam Carter

 

[deugirtni]

Looked pretty busy. Is Paris Rd busy at night? I thought it looked like the highway in the background.

ETA: I just re read my post. I should have said "it looks like they were heading to the highway". Then after that stop, they pull a U turn probably changing from highway PLANS to backroads to get to the farm.

Lol, I'm geographically challenged as well, so I could be wrong. I've also been typing challenged today..had one post moderator edited already today...Thanks Sillybilly

No matter which direction they travelled to or from Bobcat, it would have led to other than the highway (they could have come from either Paris Rd or from Powerline Rd. It would not make sense to take the 403 to travel to Ayr from the Bobcat location, imho. Paris Rd, imho, is the only option really, and a very common one. I could be mistaken, but I don't believe you would be able to see vehicles on the highway from that location either. I'm not sure what traffic you're seeing in that video, I'll have to take another look.

 

[deugirtni]

He could have been lying or they could have broken the window out later. I'm thinking there had to have been blood on it. I don't recall any DNA on the remaining window itself?

Now that I look at the quoted text above, it would only make sense for the window to have been later smashed out, considering that the likely splintered window likely *would* have contained blood, and so to conceal evidence, knock it out, but only the part where there was evidence. So.... just say there was a bullet hole, and then all around that bullet hole there were spiderwebby things.. and blood spatter amongst all of that... and they're taking the seats and carpet out, washing the truck.. and smash the window.. where did the window glass go? I guess into the bag of debris they took to the far for burning?

 

[CJPRINCESS]

They definitely could have broken the window out later, after the event, but before LE got the truck, so as not to show an obvious bullet hole. But if they were going to do that, then why leave that small portion of the bottom of the window still intact within the frame? (I suppose unless it was rolled down to that level and so it was never thought about?). In any case, it is completely not imaginable for me to think that SS and AJ were not aware of more than they were saying. Note that the below tweets by AC (BBM) say that all of the 'other' windows were rolled down? Does that mean the front passenger window 'wasn't' rolled down? With all of the windows in the down position, and SS nosing around undoubtedly, and AJ nosing around by his own admission, how is it possible they wouldn't have had a terrible feeling and known more than they admitted to when looking at that truck, considering seats removed, blood wiped on the outside, box, and inside (even though perhaps not large areas), shattered front passenger window, interior carpet removed?

They found glass in one of the burn sites. I'd assume this was part of the window...the bloody part. Which makes me think....how the heck could MS see through a window with blood on it? You'd think there'd be blood on it as there was everywhere else. There is an evidence pic of the window out. Looked like maybe 1/4 of the window is missing. I'd have to look at the pic again.

I wouldn't doubt if they knew more. Specially SS!! He helped strip the truck.

 

[deugirtni]

So then, the same situation as with the Scotty texts. A whole lot of chatter about nothing. Maybe it's safe to guess that if something never gets brought up again, it's either been disallowed or it's nothing. Kind of reminds me of those sausage pictures that were never mentioned throughout the trial other than showing the text.

It's like ... lawyer antics, imho. Just like in the movies. They say something, hoping to catch someone into saying something that they perhaps didn't really mean in the way it comes out. That happened throughout the trial. People seem to give weight to statements made by 'lawyers'.. which is why the judge (probably in all trials) have to repeatedly remind jurors that what lawyers say is NOT evidence. Then the people on the witness stand more often than not, tend to just agree with whatever it was the lawyer just said. That seemed to be the case often in this trial as well. 'Yes', 'Yes', 'Yes'. Except for MH.. when he was on the stand, he would actually be very slow, and think his answers through before answering.. sometimes asking for the question to be repeated.. at least once, maybe twice even saying that he didn't understand the question. He kind of looked like he was half there mentally when that happened, but when I think about it, he wanted to be very careful and not be tricked into his answers, above wanting to come across as intelligent. moo

Perhaps I don't really want to know the answer to this, but what *were* people thinking in regard to the 'sausage pic'? It seemed to carry a LOT of weight amongst WS members here, so I am really wondering what they feel the sausage pic was portraying.

If something never gets brought up again.. the hoses.. the Scotty issue.. the whether Mr.V saw DM and CN go into the bathroom at Riverside/view (I forget which).. the complete texts, the complete cell logs, the complete video at SS,.. yes, why bring something up if not to allude to some darkness that is never explained or brought to light, that the jury can keep in the back of their minds? Why bring only parts of things into evidence if there is more? Who gets to judge what is relevant and decide that the rest won't become relevant later? To me, it is antics in favor of the prosecution, at least that is how it looks. It makes me really really glad that I haven't yet been charged with a criminal offence and put on trial. Touching wood.

 

[deugirtni]

They found glass in one of the burn sites. I'd assume this was part of the window...the bloody part. Which makes me think....how the heck could MS see through a window with blood on it? You'd think there'd be blood on it as there was everywhere else. There is an evidence pic of the window out. Looked like maybe 1/4 of the window is missing. I'd have to look at the pic again.

I wouldn't doubt if they knew more. Specially SS!! He helped strip the truck.

From what I recall, there was blood 'spatter', so I wouldn't expect there to be a LOT of blood on the window, more on perhaps the seat and carpets from 'bleeding out'? In any case, any blood would not have covered the window. Imho, I don't think it is difficult to see an adult human sitting in a vehicle through a window around 10pm at the beginning of May when you're standing right there next to it. It's not like he was looking for a penny on a dark seat or something.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

From what I recall, there was blood 'spatter', so I wouldn't expect there to be a LOT of blood on the window, more on perhaps the seat and carpets from 'bleeding out'? In any case, any blood would not have covered the window. Imho, I don't think it is difficult to see an adult human sitting in a vehicle through a window around 10pm at the beginning of May when you're standing right there next to it. It's not like he was looking for a penny on a dark seat or something.

Nono, I don't disagree. I have darker tinted windows and up close I could see through them. Just wasn't sure about blood on windows. How much there would be.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Ya, because the plan was to kill at the farm (my opinion of course) and not in the truck on a side road or highway. Don't you find it odd that it appears they are headed for the highway in the bobcat video? You can see the highway in the background and im pretty sure there is a ramp near the bobcat dealer. Then after that stop, they pull a U turn probably changing from highway to back roads. TB is now dead. So IMO, this is where MS did tell the truth. But MS FORGOT to tell us HIS role in it all....Confinement!! JMO

MS also testified that the window only had a bullet hole in it. He didn't say it was shattered. That window could have been smashed out at the farm or hanger for all we know. I Don't imagine they'd leave a window intact with a bullet hole for everyone to see. After all, DM claimed he bought the truck off some person in Kitchener or was that a dealership lot?!! He couldn't even keep that lie right!

bbm

Apropos "confinement": To me it is questionable how to tape a man on the passenger seat (struggle assumed in addition) sitting behind him on the back seat. How does it work technically? I can't imagine at all.

 

[Inspector_North]

That's an awful big bullet hole. MS mentioned that he saw a bullet hole. So all the surrounding glass broke away and the bullet hole stayed visible?

I don't think they would want AJ and the gang to see the truck on the tarp with a bullet hole on the 8th. Even if it was a small bullet hole, busting the window further would erase the bullet hole evidence.

MOO

 

[andreww]

You are right andreww which begs the question, was the plan to confine TB until they got to the farm, but something went horribly wrong, and the plan changed. Which I might add so glad it changed, the alternative leaves my mind reeling, and my stomach sick.

I've wondered about that as well. I think the plan was always to shoot him quickly. I just don't think they expected as much mess as there was. These guys planned this for a long time and having Millard making that long drive back to the farm whilst holding Bosma hostage doesn't sound like a very good one. Remember, the IT test drive happened in broad daylight in downtown Toronto. Was Millard going to hold IT at gunpoint on the Gardner Expressway/QEW all the way to Kitchener? Not likely. That plan was always to shoot quickly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mimimic]

Do you actually think he was trying to intimidate a lawyer? More like mocking if you're asking for my interpretation. But you're entitled to your opinion.

Mockery can be sort of intimidating.

 

[Inspector_North]

There was plenty of evidence to convict MS of M1. But I do understand the different threshold of reasonable doubt that many had with respect to MS's involvement. After reviewing Susan Clairmont's 20 more things the Bosma jury was never told, the threshold of the jury was accurate IMO.

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-s...by-20-more-things-the-bosma-jury-was-never-t/

There was also a text exchange between Millard and Smich that was excluded.

Millard: German can find himself a friend.

Smich: under the glove box in the caddy we can build a place for him to live

German = PPK
Caddy = Promised Cadillac

MOO

 

[Mscree]

Someone also reported it's also in Hamilton. SC too maybe?

on will be in T.O. But she did tweet C.N trial will be in Hamilton