Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder

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A lot of people called M1 long before it ever went to trial and even before they heard all the evidence.
It shows how people are in our society that innocent until proven guilty doesn't mean a whole lot.

Innocent until proven guilty isn't a requirement for the general population; just for the legal system. People not involved directly in determining guilt or innocence are free to make a judgement based on the knowledge that they have.
 
Innocent until proven guilty isn't a requirement for the general population; just for the legal system. People not involved directly in determining guilt or innocence are free to make a judgement based on the knowledge that they have.
Well considering the jury selection is made up of a "jury of your peers", the fact the general population is ready to hang everyone without knowing the facts is very unsettling. MOO
 
There is no organized crime involved in this.

Millard and Smich are two sociopaths, who found each other. They were a lot more dangerous than MWJ ever was, which is why he's never been charged with first degree murder.

I found it weird, when people were suggesting Smich might be terrified of MWJ. If anyone had anything to worry about, it was MWJ who was in more possible danger from Millard and Smich.

Yes, MWJ is a bad dude alleged to have sold (his trial is still pending and he is pleading not guilty) dangerous firearms, but Millard and Smich were the ones using them.

You seem very sure about this. Organized crime has a history of attracting sociopaths as they come in quite handy. The ICEMAN comes to mind. Serial killer employed by the mob. So I respect that you are totally convinced that it does not play any role but I am not so sure.
 
The uncle is Madeleine Burns' brother. He never took Dellen in so to speak. He simply made a point of spending time with this nephew after WM and MB split, probably so he could have a stable father figure in his life. Remember, Wayne was a drinker and Madeleine had problems of her own. The uncle was likely trying to help out. I think a lot of people misinterpreted his testimony to mean Dellen lived with him, which was not the case.

I did not say he lived there. But he may have stayed there. The uncle (MB's brother) said he took DM in for altruistic reasons....a quote from the newspaper. For all of the reasons you are saying. My main point here is that likely the uncle realized in short order that "the apple had not fallen far from the tree". The uncle called DM a sick prick. That is all. Maybe the parents brought nothing to the table as father to son or mother to son that may have directed him in having a meaningful non destructive life.
 
Well considering the jury selection is made up of a "jury of your peers", the fact the general population is ready to hang everyone without knowing the facts is very unsettling. MOO

It is unsettling but it's the way it goes. I know a man who was charged with a pretty vile crime (that he didn't do) and when it was all over and he was cleared, it didn't matter. He lost everything: career, wife, kids, home, respect in the community, etc. It was that case that taught me a lesson in assuming guilt without all the facts.
 
Yes DM was the obvious mastermind. MS was too dumb of a person.

Not sure how anyone is assessing the intelligence of these two. Birds of a feather flock together and brains really doesn't factor into any of it. If brains had anything to do with it they wouldn't be looking at cinder blocks as they would not be doing this evil in the first place. We are looking at deranged.
 
It is unsettling but it's the way it goes. I know a man who was charged with a pretty vile crime (that he didn't do) and when it was all over and he was cleared, it didn't matter. He lost everything: career, wife, kids, home, respect in the community, etc. It was that case that taught me a lesson in assuming guilt without all the facts.

I think you are being a tad presumptuous. I never believed Steven Truscott was guilty as an outsider looking in and the majority did not. Most felt OJ was guilty. And many more. In general I trust humanity.
 
The uncle is Madeleine Burns' brother. He never took Dellen in so to speak. He simply made a point of spending time with this nephew after WM and MB split, probably so he could have a stable father figure in his life. Remember, Wayne was a drinker and Madeleine had problems of her own. The uncle was likely trying to help out. I think a lot of people misinterpreted his testimony to mean Dellen lived with him, which was not the case.

I have been wondering if MB might have shared a similar problem to WM.
 
It was the grandfather that made the money and WM and DM had a lot in common. I don't think the apple fell far from the tree IMO from what I have read.

Carl declared bankruptcy in 2009. How much could the business have accrued between 2009 and 2012? I still don't see where all this supposed wealth comes from, especially after blowing a load of borrowed cash on an MRO and then selling it as a discount FBO. It's like buying a new car, driving across the street and selling it as used.
MB was supposed to make 60K a yr on Millardair. Now that it is no more, where is her income supposed to come from? Her house was used as collateral for the MRO.
 
A lot of people called M1 long before it ever went to trial and even before they heard all the evidence.
It shows how people are in our society that innocent until proven guilty doesn't mean a whole lot.

I called M1 for both 3 years ago. I (as most did) had the "guilty till proven innocent" mind set all based on emotions as we had very little facts. SB's plea still hits my heartstrings today. That's what I based my M1 conviction on 3 years ago...well about 80% of it.

I Continued to feel that way untill I started seeing lack of evidence on MS (maybe 3/4 of the way through the trial) right up untill he took the stand. He talked the talk under Dungey (this is where I seen more people jumping in my boat). DM'S teams cross just made MS look even better with the ludicrous theories and comments..."oh, we should call an ambulance". Was happy to see Sachak rest. It wasn't long into the Crowns cross that all that changed. We seen more texts that brought on my Ahh-haha moment. He wasn't afraid of DM and surely did not try to avoid him. He made initial contact with DM.

The big one I think is when the Crown introduced theory that TB was "repositioned" at the bobcat. Blood/DNA got in to the pickup box somehow and made me think..there is no way TB would have allowed a test drive to go that far and he must have been confined somehow. Then thinking back on "gloves, tape and orange guys" I truly believe that MS'S job was to restrain TB. He failed his part of their plan.
I just think killing TB at the Bullman field would have been was too risky.

I believe alot of the truth of what happened to Tim that fatal night did come out in DM'S and MS'S theories. They just spun it to their advantages so we will never know exacly how it all went down. But alot of the pieces are there.

Everyone still having doubts (before the verdict) did put up some good debates and "almost" pulled me back into the boat. But with my theory that I can't shake and those texts after TB's murder kept me in tune of...BOTH guilty of M1! They had a plan, they followed through and they tried to clean up! They forgot ONE thing, IGOR! The true hero in the initial bringing down of these two demented-demons.

All MOO and JMO
 
Thanks for the clarification, and I look forward to following your thorough investigation surrounding this bizarre hole in the hanger gang, and your book that will be released later this year.

Question: Since your book will be released prior to the lifting of publication bans, are you planning more on the subject?

MOO

There will almost certainly be an afterword/update to later editions, but beyond that, I honestly don't know.
 
I believe it's so they have them on file for use against other unsolved cases, or any potential future uses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Perhaps some scientists may want to grow some petri-Devils in the future?
 
Well considering the jury selection is made up of a "jury of your peers", the fact the general population is ready to hang everyone without knowing the facts is very unsettling. MOO

bbm....... If that were indeed the fact, I dare say that trial by jury would have already been eleminated from the system. It is 'unsettling' to me that you would make such a bold and sweeping statement. Was that meant to include the jury in this case??
Jurors are screened for unreasonable bias before they are chosen to serve.....if a juror cannot be objective they are eliminated early on in the process.
 
Please don't interpret my comment as excusing MWJ in any way. Gun dealers are dangerous and should be off the streets. And I'm going to continue to follow his case including the AK-47 discharge.

It's just that he's not charged with murder nor was anyone in his crowd except Millard and Smich. It's weird that some people wanted to make him a bigger villain than the two guys convicted of first degree murder.

I find it hard to take that squishy, silly-putty face seriously. And is he even old enough to be the head of anything more than the he-man woman haters clubhouse?
 
bbm....... If that were indeed the fact, I dare say that trial by jury would have already been eleminated from the system. It is 'unsettling' to me that you would make such a bold and sweeping statement. Was that meant to include the jury in this case??
Jurors are screened for unreasonable bias before they are chosen to serve.....if a juror cannot be objective they are eliminated early on in the process.

It was meant to include those who doesn't wait to see the evidence before drawing conclusions. Innocent until proven guilty means just that "Who" that includes is all relative. We've seen this time and again. Not just in this case. The jury pool is screened as we all know, but the fact they need to be reminded not to make a conviction based on emotion, and the fact the crown closes with a emotional argument shows the courts are well aware people do give into their emotions. People are not robots. JMO
 
Well considering the jury selection is made up of a "jury of your peers", the fact the general population is ready to hang everyone without knowing the facts is very unsettling. MOO

Well, there's certainly some truth to that. But reading the comments section of the Toronto Star or Sun for any period of time is enough to make one's confidence in democracy a bit shaky (until you realize, as per Churchill, paraphrasing an earlier anonymous maxim, "democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried "). Individuals can certainly be very opinionated, prejudiced and repulsed by details of particularly unsavoury, despicable crimes. In addition, a great many criminal defendants are unlikable "scumbags" to normal citizens.

The question is, can opinionated individuals consciously set aside their biases or preconceptions when called upon to serve on a jury and collectively come to a decision based on the facts presented? I believe that evidence shows that for the most part, they can. I had opportunity to communicate with two who served on the jury in well-known, separate highly publicized and brutal cases. Neither, of course, shared any details of their deliberations (which would have been illegal), but each said, in his own words, that he took very seriously the judge's charge to disregard any opinions formed during the trial, personal revulsion at the accused or their character, and to carefully consider the evidence, as a group and with discussion, to arrive at a just verdict. This may be difficult to do, but I am confident that most jurors do exactly that.

In this trial, the jurors had four months to get to know each other. They couldn't discuss the case or evidence with each other during their lunch or "legal arguments" breaks. They could talk about their families, interests, passions, share memories and experiences, and so on, so that by the time they came to deliberate, they had a working relationship with each other. This undoubtedly facilitated their being able to go over the evidence carefully and deliberately. I know from various work experiences that arriving at decisions is much more readily accomplished when the group has a working relationship among the individuals concerned, as opposed to a group of complete strangers.

The time they took (4-5 days) is not IMO indicative of any dissension, holdouts or whatever; it is an average length of time for a complex case where the evidence is very strong in one direction but where there are possible interpretations that need hashing out, and the jurors feel an obligation to go over all the evidence.

The jury selection process in Canada apparently has a feature that I only learned about recently (and I can't find the news item from the Star, though someone else may know), but a judge in Toronto was recently censured (or something) for overruling the usual process (that I never heard of) whereby the first two jurors selected for a panel sit in on the selection of the third and can overrule that selection if for some reason they feel the juror is unsuitable. Then THOSE two most recently selected sit in on the selection of the next one, and so on down the line. The judge in the media report was rebuked for not allowing this process in a particular trial and this objection was upheld. I wish I had saved the article and don't have the right search terms to locate it. But, it would be a further safeguard against a person being selected who would be too much of a "lone ranger" type and be an obstacle to arriving at a unanimous verdict. I'd be interested find out more about how this works.
 
It was surprising but not overly surprising to read that. Unless there was some sort of a publication ban on that, I don't recall anyone finding DM'S possession charge while sleuthing. I think there was some assumption that he got carded for a traffic infration (Hense the lost drivers license) but no actual criminal offences.

But then again, there are two cases that I've been trying to find the court stuff for (both settled cases and both have convictions) and can't find zip all. Maybe some stuff just never becomes available to the public?

It said he was charged, not convicted. He could have bought his way out, like rich cats do.
 
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