Verdict Watch 05/04/ and 05/05/2013

[kscornfed]

If the juror's follow the instructions given to them, they should arrive at first degree murder.

IIRC, they were told to first consider first degree murder. They can only consider lesser charges if they cannot reach a unanimous vote of the higher charge. Martinez laid out for them how the crime fits both premeditated and felony murder under the first degree charges. He did this not once, but twice.

If the jury understands with the legal definition of premeditation, which basically means time to reflect, intent to kill can be formed in seconds. Travis's injuries alone meet the criteria of premeditated murder, regardless of the sequence of events prior to the attack.

1) Gunshot wound to the head- whether this came first or last, a gunshot to the head can kill. While JA said that she did not intend to shoot him because she thought the gun was not loaded, she did not stop. Her versions of this prior to trial indicated that this happened in the closet; on the witness stand, she changed this to the bathroom.

2) A change of weapons to a knife which she uses to stab him 27 times, including a fatal wound to the heart, defensive wounds to the hands and excessive wounds to the back, meaning that he was not a threat to her when she inflicted these wounds. The change of weapons is significant in that it shows reflection.

3). The chasing down of Travis in the hallway and the slashing of his throat furthers the premeditative aspect of the crime. Chasing him requires reflection, as does the switch from stabbing to slashing. To slash one's throat is a completely different action than stabbing, again requiring reflection, not reflex.

There is an excellent previous post here where the OP puts forth a terrific argument for first degree murder under the unlikely assumption that JA's version of events of that day is true and still arrives at the conclusion of first degree murder. I agree 100%; regardless of what happened, the three distinct set of wounds and how/where they were inflicted fully meets the legal definition of first degree murder.

In order for this not to have been first degree murder, JA would have had to be gravely injured by Travis in this event, in which case excessive force would then be considered justified. In reality, I find it doubtful that someone gravely injured would be able to deeply slash another person's throat from ear to ear.

The only thing that concerned me is Nurmi introducing "she snapped" without Martinez clarifying this. Nurmi's use of snapped is not the same as the legal definition of crime of passion.

BBM. Nurmi was going for manslaughter, which involves provocation. what provocation? the only person who says he went all incredible hulk on her, naked, from a sitting position in the shower, is HER. there's NO other evidence of provocation except from her mouth that would cause her to 'snap'.
that's not ever going to fly. she came armed to do what she did. i feel confident they get it.

 

[Words2Serve]

Confession. This middle of the night sex thing, isn't unusual I don't think. Of course I never took a poll either. Some of the best sex I have ever had was exactly as described. Yes, consent is implied and therefore not rape. I would be awake prior to the actual penetration so don't believe that part of Jodi's story.
The joy is waking up half orgasmic to put it bluntly.

It is alleged that he penetrated her during her sleep, the only thing I ever heard him say he did was wake her up by 'licking her', and many men enjoy being woken up that way too in a consensual relationship, which they were in. I realize he and Jodi had a different relationship, but I really feel alot of that 'stuff' was unfounded, and I am hoping the jury considers the source.

I really wanted JM to tell the jury to listen back to that tape and remember that Jodi was in charge of that record button, and pushing it. If you listen to how old Jodi sounds; TA said her moan sounds like a 12 year old. It may come across odd, but I think Nurmi made it sicker than it was. It wasn't like he said I love to listen and watch 12 year olds, and there was nothing on his computer or in his house.

 

[makayla]

Hope it won't bring on one of her headaches. Oh wait, yes I do. I'm betting she can't 'call in sick' for the chain gang like she did for court.

or she won't be able to work on the chain gang because of her "injured" finger!

 

[Truth Detector]

When that cellphone went of when Nurmi was speaking it got me thinking...
(dangerous I know!)

I believe FIRMLY that the jury will find JA guilty of Murder 1.
IF a cell phone were to go off right after the pronouncement of guilt, what would you hope the ringtone is?

Here are a few of my ideas to get you started:
Killer Queen
Another One Bites The Dust
Time by Pink Floyd
Tainted Love

or for Travis and family:
Calling All Angels
We are Family

Obviously I don't want anyone in the courtroom to do this... just for fun.

Donovan Bering, Matt McCartney and Darryl Brewer request this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TcQtUCs6nM

Great horn work by Conte and Pete Candoli.

Trivia: Maria Muldaur of Midnight At The Oasis fame also laid down vocals on this one, IIRC.

 

[MidwestMama]

Isn't this encouraging!

HLN
Verdict watch: Is Jodi Arias guilty?
8:27 AM EDT, Sat May 04, 2013
96% Guilty-- Arias killed Travis Alexander in cold blood
4% Not guilty-- she acted in self-defense

http://www.hlntv.com/poll/2013/05/04/you-be-judge-jodi-arias-guilty

It is encouraging. Although, that 4% scares me. :scared::scared: Must be the population of a certain page that I don't visit.

 

[GreenEyesBlue]

After the emotional "end" to the guilt phase of this trial, I have now spent the day Monday morning quarterbacking and wondering if all was done that could be done. I've been heavy-hearted all day.

Then, I re-watched some of JM's closing. Specifically, the part about how JA chased him down the hall. The rainbow.

It truly was like a Xanax. I'm better now.

 

[Wake_me]

Quoting myself to add: I never believed she even tried anyway. When she tells the "Story" she says she arranged her blankets so the blood wouldn't drip below onto her cellmate. THAT RIGHT THERE shows it is BS. JA never thinks of anyone but herself!:stormingmad:

DD said she had talked about suicide all the way back to like junior high in her journals. I do not believe she was ever serious about it, but like to romanticize about it, or threaten it to manipulate people. She allegedly made that one suicide attempt in all these years and couldn't even come up with another method she had contemplated.

 

[marlap]

I love that movie "Michael". After my brother died (accident), it was one of those movies I could watch and imagine what it might be like after we leave this earth. If Dave is an angel, he would be one like Michael.

On the other hand, he would not be like Beetlejuice!

Gcharlie, I'm sorry you lost your brother Dave! :rose:

I know he's always with you....and JUST like Michael!

 

[mangolassi]

When that cellphone went of when Nurmi was speaking it got me thinking...
(dangerous I know!)

I believe FIRMLY that the jury will find JA guilty of Murder 1.
IF a cell phone were to go off right after the pronouncement of guilt, what would you hope the ringtone is?

For Whom The Bell Tolls - Metallica

 

[momtective]

It is encouraging. Although, that 4% scares me. :scared::scared: Must be the population of a certain page that I don't visit.

Her mom, aunt, g-ma, and Donovan? :yes:

 

[Colt46]

BBM

Weren't Jodi Ann Arias and Bobby Juarez into vampirism?

Yes. And then when she met Travis she researched the Mormon Church and the Blood of Atonement ritual. Too bad she can't receive the same punishment meted out in the Salem Witch Trials!

 

[MidwestMama]

After the emotional "end" to the guilt phase of this trial, I have now spent the day Monday morning quarterbacking and wondering if all was done that could be done. I've been heavy-hearted all day.

Then, I re-watched some of JM's closing. Specifically, the part about how JA chased him down the hall. The rainbow.

It truly was like a Xanax. I'm better now.

Good! Try not to worry. All that can be done, has been done. Juan and his team, including Det. Flores, have put their hearts and souls into this case for many years. I trust that the jury will do the right thing. Many have been convicted on far less. (Yes, I know many still sting from a certain not guilty verdict -but just try to remember that is the EXCEPTION not the rule!) The evidence, the case Juan put on, the questions the jury asked, Jodi lying right to the jury's faces... I am not worried.

 

[Arabian Girl]

While JA has a history of suicidal threats and ideation, I just do not see her as the type to act on suicide.

I guess the best way that I can explain this is that it seems to be a mechanism of fantasy that she has used in the past with. Many people fantasize without ever intending to act on them; the mere fantasy provides the needed effect. From the limited amount of info I have seen, her talk of suicide seems very superficial in that it is not connected to a deep despondency, sense of hopelessness, pain or plan of action.

Maybe I say this because I have a history of suicidal ideation with no intent to carry it out. Maybe it's my way of trying to wash away whatever troubles I can't see my way out of and then coming to the realization that those troubles will be there for others, I will no longer be here to enjoy life and those who love me will be in great pain. It's more or less a mental exercise.

I remember discussing suicide once with a family counselor after a prominent community member committed suicide. He was grief stricken after the death of his wife and left behind two young children. The counselor had called suicide a cowardly act and I set her straight, letting her know of the true darkness and despair some people feel before committing suicide, such as my 18 year old bipolar nephew. I then asked her if she thought I ever entertained suicidal thought and she quickly said no. Shows how little the mental health profession understands certain things.

As for JA, as far as I know, suicide watch is a matter of course for those who get the DP, at least in the early days.

IMO very much part of her BPD characteristics. 8% of BPD suicide attempts succeed. I don't recall she ever actually tried, mostly like you said ideation. I think she is waaayyyy too narcisistic (literally!) to actually do it, maybe for sympathy in prison she'd make a half attempt. Actually save the taxpayers and spare the Alexanders if she would just do it herself.

 

[Sydni]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glz1OfXbc_0

Oh ... thank you so much Truth Detector :seeya:

 

[marlap]

DD said she had talked about suicide all the way back to like junior high in her journals. I do not believe she was ever serious about it, but like to romanticize about it, or threaten it to manipulate people. She allegedly made that one suicide attempt in all these years and couldn't even come up with another method she had contemplated.

I totally agree....she's way too narcissistic to kill her favorite person.

I think her suicidal talk has always just been another of her many methods of manipulation

 

[Words2Serve]

DD said she had talked about suicide all the way back to like junior high in her journals. I do not believe she was ever serious about it, but like to romanticize about it, or threaten it to manipulate people. She allegedly made that one suicide attempt in all these years and couldn't even come up with another method she had contemplated.

I agree, I believe she used it to manipulate TA too. She said they talked about if he would come to her funeral which makes me think, she was guilting him, that she would kill herself.

 

[Madilu]

(snipped) But did anyone hear Chris Hughes talking about Travis believing books was the way for inner-city kids to raise themselves up...part of the Travis Alexander Fund is to go for starting a Foundation for that very cause? Jodi berating her mother to read and why she didn't go to college, Jodi this high school drop-out... trying to be Travis-like to read more books (mom) and failing miserably and being just plain ugly.

Good point. Come to think of it, wasn't her My space "read/likes/movies" list a near carbon copy of Travis'? Chameleon!

 

[marlap]

IMO very much part of her BPD characteristics. 8% of BPD suicide attempts succeed. I don't recall she ever actually tried, mostly like you said ideation. I think she is waaayyyy too narcisistic (literally!) to actually do it, maybe for sympathy in prison she'd make a half attempt. Actually save the taxpayers and spare the Alexanders if she would just do it herself.

We posted about her narcissism in response at the exact same time! There is no way she'd ever really try.

 

[Karraster]

Here ya go!!!

It's in TWO parts: Scroll down to #177 and 185:
I hope everyone gets a chance to read this post - it's brilliant, IMO.

http://callsforjustice.wordpress.com/2013/05/03/jodi-arias-murder-trial-day-fifty-seven/#comments

Wow! Thanks for bringing this, and I do hope it is read far and wide. These predators walk among us.

 

[MidwestMama]

I agree, I believe she used it to manipulate TA too. She said they talked about if he would come to her funeral which makes me think, she was guilting him, that she would kill herself.

I agree, especially since Sky Hughes said on Dr D that when she encouraged Travis to break up with JA Travis told her JA said she would commit suicide if he did.

ETA: It may have actually been after they broke up and Sky was encouraging Travis to cut contact with JA because of all the hassles she was causing him.