Verdict Watch Discussion Thread

[Claroon]

Hi Dateline. Yes, nothing was said about the reasoning. First thing in the morning the judge said he had received a letter from a juror that the juror wished to keep a private matter. The judge said he would not be reading it out loud because of this. Everybody in the courtroom including the lawyers looked perplexed and surprised. The judge passed the letter to the crown who read it silently, then it got passed to the other lawyers. I could only ballpark in hindsight that it took about 15-20 secs on avg to read.
The judge then asked for any submissions from the Crown. Crown said That they submit to dismiss (or discharge) the juror. *I don't have the specific verbiage written* Both defence lawyers said no thx (no submissions)

The jury then came in, the judge announced he had a received a letter from a juror but juror wished it to remain private and off the record. He then took a few moments and thanked her for her dedication over the last several months and discharged her completely.
It was hard to tell what the other jurors knew or didn't know, they didn't look particularly shocked or upset. I remember leaning to get a better look and I saw the juror squeezing through to leave and there were no hugs or tears, etc that I saw whatsoever.IMO

I'm confused because didn't they have to cut the two extra jurors out eventually and one left due to brother's death and then this one probably wanted to be 2nd one out? Someone had to go,no?

 

[cansleuther]

Or that exchange with Isho took place after LBs death? Different gun.

The exchange with Isho took place in Feb 2012.

In one text message exchange from February 2012, when talking about brokering a deal for what is believed to be the gun used to shoot Bosma, Millard said to Jackson: "BTW, is it clean or dirty?" Jackson responded, "clean," and then "bring her back safe plz." Millard then wrote, "By the time I let her go, she'll be a dirty girl." Jackson responded, "[that's] fine lol. I can change her print."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-trial-what-the-jury-didnt-hear-1.3631268


LB was living with a new boyfriend in Feb 2012.

In early 2012, Austerweil said he learned Babcock was going online to a site where anyone can perform live sex acts on a webcam while users pay to watch. The last time she signed on — the profile still shows a girl from the neck down wearing a bright pink bra — was at Austerweil's house with her girlfriend. The three partied hard that night, Austerweil said, snorting coke, doing ecstasy, smoking weed and drinking. The women started stripping and kissing each other for online viewers, he said.

But the night deteriorated into a screaming match between Austerweil and Babcock. A month later, Babcock went to police. In March 2012, Austerweil was charged with assaulting her, theft under $5,000 (what he owed for the vet bill) and sexually assaulting her friend.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4565166-bosma-case-babcock-murder-leaves-lingering-questions-for-police/

 

[Claroon]

I think some people made assumptions - incorrectly - about MS and his lack of intelligence based on his appearance and the language he used in his texts. I actually agree with CHCH reporter, Lisa Hefpner's characterization of MS being cunning.

I think back to a couple of examples of his cunning when I recall MS's remarks about DM being abusive to his own dog, hitting Pedo when the dog soiled the bed. I think that remark was quite cunning as MS is not stupid and I think he hoped that many jurors may interpret such a statement as DM being cruel to animals which could indicate that DM is also capable of being cruel to humans. Also MS referred to DM as "twisted" at one point, IIRC. Did he know what was in DM's uncle RB's statement to LE? Perhaps MS did know, as I would think it's all part of the disclosure. Perhaps that is why MS chose to describe DM with that particularly loaded word since he was aware of the legal arguments that disallowed RB from repeating his sentiments about DM by describing DM as a "sick, twisted prick".

I may be in the minority but I quite admire LH's reporting and find her credible and balanced overall. JMO.

All MOO.

Well, Dungey used the word "twisted" a few times. "Dungey says Millard's "twisted mind" is shown in his letters, his treatment of people. "He doesn't care for anyone." Jun 01, 2016" - SC

 

[musicaljoke]

The jury is quiet today, which, hopefully means that things are moving along well for them. After yesterday's head-scratching question, I had concerns that they would get bogged down frequently.

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

We are super lucky to have the CBC. People complain about the public funding, but what you get is what we have: a news organization that is not under the same pressure to lower the bar for ratings and fiscal survival as media has become democratized over the last couple of decades. Many of the rest are just competing for who can get down farthest in the mud.

The downside to that is....their reporting is always going to take into consideration who is funding them and skew their stories accordingly. MOO

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Oh yeah....but the other thing is....he's also a better criminal than DM. If I'm not mistaken one of the texts says that when they steal the truck it has to be planned right. It was MS that said that not DM. DM is a dreamer with pie in the sky ideals. MS is a doer. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the whole Eliminator idea what his and not DM's. MOO

DM it appears thought he was wildly untouchable. How many times does he think his tricked out van is going to get across the border without being checked. There's a reason why the bigger dealers have the underlings do the border crossings.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 40m40 minutes ago
Susan Clairmont Retweeted
I have a longer story for tomorrow...@AD_Humphreys, @AdamCarterCBC and I spent our weekend sorting thru pub bans.



@susanclairmont are different media taking different approaches to the pub ban? National Post article had by far the most details.


1 retweet1 like





So it looks like we will be learning more tomorrow of what the jury didn't hear.

They do realize the Internet exists right? They can post things online and get the clicks and ads right away instead of being contained by word count and page space.

 

[Arnie M]

Oh yeah....but the other thing is....he's also a better criminal than DM. If I'm not mistaken one of the texts says that when they steal the truck it has to be planned right. It was MS that said that not DM. DM is a dreamer with pie in the sky ideals. MS is a doer. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the whole Eliminator idea what his and not DM's. MOO

Yes yes and yes .... and to go along with that , Alex Pierson was interviewed on the Scott Thompson show and here is what she said ...

Scott Thompson
...... Whats it like to make eye contact with an alleged killer ?
Alex Pierson
....... I can tell 'ya ... these two are pieces of work
....... I find Smich creepier than Millard
....... I mean Millard is kinda goofy , he tries to be charming and is more alarming
....... Smich though , is like haunting , he looks at you and he locks eyes with you
....... and his eyes are dead , he is a creepo

 

[Crimeinthe6ix]

They do realize the Internet exists right? They can post things online and get the clicks and ads right away instead of being contained by word count and page space.

They will run the story online later tonight / early tomorrow morning.

Papers like the spec still rely heavily on their paper distribution and have readers, a big story like this they wont want to "scoop" themselves online before any of their print readers can.

 

[JuneBug67]

The downside to that is....their reporting is always going to take into consideration who is funding them and skew their stories accordingly. MOO

I`m not sure about that. The Harper government was on a rampage of sorts at various points trying to gut the funding likely for what it perceived as lefty leanings. Regardless they enjoy the position of being able to strive for quality rather than naked popularity. Some of the other big organizations can still do both of course, but some smaller outlets, local outlets, stringers etc. etc. are just grasping for viewers and listeners. Tends to breed sensationalism, declining quality, declining balance and the likes of some of the journalism we have seen here and in other places in recent years. Heavy on editorialized scorn *advertiser censored* and light on accuracy and thoughtfulness. I couldn`t discern a thing the CBC gang actually personally felt about anybody. To me, that`s journalism.

 

[Arnie M]

@susanclairmont Why did Goodman remove the end of the gun-buy text conversation? Seems relevant evidence considering it was the murder weapo

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
Which murder though? That's the problem.

We don't know the full content of the texts, but the reporters likely do. Susan Clairmont just gave a very clear hint.

Or that exchange with Isho took place after LBs death? Different gun.

They certainly uncovered something to lay the charges regarding LB and WM .... methinks the police or coroner still have the gun used on WM and found a picture of it while digging deep into the Bosma murder .

Becha' those next 2 trials will be even more of an eye opener than the current one.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Hi Dateline. Yes, nothing was said about the reasoning. First thing in the morning the judge said he had received a letter from a juror that the juror wished to keep a private matter. The judge said he would not be reading it out loud because of this. Everybody in the courtroom including the lawyers looked perplexed and surprised. The judge passed the letter to the crown who read it silently, then it got passed to the other lawyers. I could only ballpark in hindsight that it took about 15-20 secs on avg to read.
The judge then asked for any submissions from the Crown. Crown said That they submit to dismiss (or discharge) the juror. *I don't have the specific verbiage written* Both defence lawyers said no thx (no submissions)

The jury then came in, the judge announced he had a received a letter from a juror but juror wished it to remain private and off the record. He then took a few moments and thanked her for her dedication over the last several months and discharged her completely.
It was hard to tell what the other jurors knew or didn't know, they didn't look particularly shocked or upset. I remember leaning to get a better look and I saw the juror squeezing through to leave and there were no hugs or tears, etc that I saw whatsoever.IMO

bbm

Thank you, this is interesting for sure. Makes you wonder!
I can't find the post now about the Juror that kept making eye contact with DM. I wonder if this is the same Juror that left? Maybe it was more then "just trying to figure DM out" and more of a "infatuation" with him?

 

[Bellers]

hmmm....so let's say they found NO shell casing.....would NO gun evidence have been allowed? That seems.....just wrong....

I personally think that information on why is still covered by a publication ban. I guess we will find out for sure in the trials to come.

 

[ILoveDateline]

I'm confused because didn't they have to cut the two extra jurors out eventually and one left due to brother's death and then this one probably wanted to be 2nd one out? Someone had to go,no?

Well, I wouldn't think one can just volunteer to be excluded without a valid reason. It seems that the judge, crown and defense lawyers all agreed in this case. Maybe it was the juror Shannon Martin said stared at DM throughout the trial. Perhaps she felt she couldn't be impartial any longer. Who knows. I tried googling "bizarre reasons jurors are excused"; sadly, it didn't yield anything particularly interesting. JMO.

 

[andreww]

DM it appears thought he was wildly untouchable. How many times does he think his tricked out van is going to get across the border without being checked. There's a reason why the bigger dealers have the underlings do the border crossings.

My guess is guns and ammo were probably more likely to be smuggled.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Well, I want MB to be charged criminally for her part in all of this. o/t I wonder what RB thinks about his sister for what she has done?

I get the impression that's not the first mess MB has tried to clean up for DM.

 

[DeaconBrodie]

bbm

Thank you, this is interesting for sure. Makes you wonder!
I can't find the post now about the Juror that kept making eye contact with DM. I wonder if this is the same Juror that left? Maybe it was more then "just trying to figure DM out" and more of a "infatuation" with him?

If the juror had an infatuation with Millard, I can't imagine Millard's counsel not arguing strenuously for her to remain on the jury. The fact that the Crown agreed to having her removed and both defence counsel were silent makes that seem unlikely to me, but stranger things have happened....

 

[andreww]

If the juror had an infatuation with Millard, I can't imagine Millard's counsel not arguing strenuously for her to remain on the jury. The fact that the Crown agreed to having her removed and both defence counsel were silent makes that seem unlikely to me, but stranger things have happened....

Ya, sounds more like a family emergency to me.

 

[andreww]

I get the impression that's not the first mess MB has tried to clean up for DM.

Why do you say that?

 

[CJPRINCESS]

If the juror had an infatuation with Millard, I can't imagine Millard's counsel not arguing strenuously for her to remain on the jury. The fact that the Crown agreed to having her removed and both defence counsel were silent makes that seem unlikely to me, but stranger things have happened....

You'd think the rest of the jurors would show some type of sympathy then? Would DM'S council really argue to have her to stay? Wouldn't that be grounds for appeal or something if a verdict couldn't be reach do to emotional attachment?