**Verdict watch weekend discussion thread** 3/3-4/2012

[Stella5]

His interest in MF during that 26 hour period was unprecedented.
Just another coincidence?

JTF... do we have cell phone records from the 2nd? I have seen a reference that JY made 17 phone calls to Michelle on 11/2 from 9:56pm to 11:04pm. That is a LOT of phone calls in just over an hour. Just wanted to see if that was indeed true or not, but IMO that could indicate rage building over something... did she tell him she was done? She wanted out and for him not to come back? Obviously we have no evidence this occurred, I just have a horrible feeling about those calls...

 

[SteelerGirl43]

I've wracked my brain, but everything I can think of points to JLY. Starting with the camera's at the HI. The propping of doors, both interior and exterior. There is so much motive, beginning with the huge amount of life insurance on Michelle's head. At the crime scene, little CY, the medicine dropper with adult strength medicine in it. And JLY's never asking 'how could michelle be dead? What happened to her, I was just home last night and she was fine??? To refusing to assist the police in any way to find the brutal killer of his wife and unborn child. It's not for lack of trying, I simply can't think of anything but coincidence upon coincidence, adding up. As someone else said, 'how unlucky could one guy be on that one night?'

Some people are just unlucky.... For example a guy I dated... OMG!! His family has been very very very unlucky... When his brother was 14 he had a diving accident... Paralyzed from the neck down until he was in his 30's.... Then it was it was from the waist down... Yrs later the grandfather was sitting on the side of the rd broke down & a roofing truck ran slap over his truck killing him.... A yr later the father was killed in an auto accident... About 3 yrs later a son was killed in an auto accident.... Then around 7 yrs later a uncle died of lung cancer... Several yrs later bro in law died of lung cancer.. Now fast fwd to last August--the guy I dated died in a motorcycle accident...

I would say all that is bad luck..... So bad luck does hit some people more than others.. I know its different in this case, but just saying how some are unlucky...

 

[gngr~snap]

I've wracked my brain, but everything I can think of points to JLY. Starting with the camera's at the HI. The propping of doors, both interior and exterior. There is so much motive, beginning with the huge amount of life insurance on Michelle's head. At the crime scene, little CY, the medicine dropper with adult strength medicine in it. And JLY's never asking 'how could michelle be dead? What happened to her, I was just home last night and she was fine??? To refusing to assist the police in any way to find the brutal killer of his wife and unborn child. It's not for lack of trying, I simply can't think of anything but coincidence upon coincidence, adding up. As someone else said, 'how unlucky could one guy be on that one night?'

I'd like to know how many business trips he really took ALONE as well! Clearly there was no woman that night at least. i know it's none of my business n all :moo:

 

[CGW]

I'll give you G people some fodder for your lists: no blood transfer, no fiber transfer, no blood in drains at house.

I almost put "no fiber transfer"....it would have been #4 for my list.

 

[gracielee]

I recall Linda Fisher's testimony, something to the effect of 'her michelle not being the same girl she had been.' 'Happy, fun-loving, jovial, love of life.' That 'this michelle was laying with her head in her mom's lap, looking broken.' Each of our daughters dated one JERK before getting married. I remember one in particular, that was similar to this previous description by Linda. I remember talking to my daughter on the phone, when she was living with her JERK. I don't recall how it came up, but I remember daughter crying to me over the phone 'you just don't want me to be happy' when I was probably pointing out and attempting to encourage her to take stock of where her life was at that moment. I remember saying 'honey, if you are so *happy* why do you always look so sad?' "Why are you crying all the time?" "If he's such a 'good guy' why do you always appear so miserable?" It was shortly after that discussion she moved out of their apartment. She told me at a later point in time, those were the words that woke her up, for lack of a better term. It was that conversation between us that made her stop and think about what I said, about her unhappiness. I think had michelle had a bit more time, a few more therapy sessions, she would have been able to think clearly enough to see that 'she wasn't the problem, he was. JMO

 

[cody100]

The width of the foot is a factor in putting on shoes that are too small. The smaller the shoe, the narrower it is. Men's shoes are a D width, women's shoes are a B width. A woman with a narrow foot would most likely have no problem putting her foot into a smaller man's shoe because the width is already wider than a woman's shoe. Jason is typically a size 12-13, so putting on a shoe that is 2-3 sizes smaller would create problems not only in length but in width.

I would have liked to have seen a demo of Jason putting on the size 10 shoes, as that would clear up all the questions about whether it was possible for Jason to do.

I would have paid money to see JY put on a size 10 Franklin.

 

[Turnadot]

I would have paid money to see JY put on a size 10 Franklin.

Not me, because he's such an accomplished liar.

'You came here for THAT. See? They don't fit.'



IMO

 

[parker38]

No not Franklins.. Would have been better if they were.. They hardly had any shoes.... But the fact remains he could NOT fit in foot into a size 10 comfortably.....

And I stand by what I have always said NOT every person is the same... So what Mr. Gracielee can do or ur hubbys players doesn't mean it will work for Jason.. Everyone is different..... For example I wear a size 8.... When my grandmother passed I was given some of her things.. Some were shoes.. She wore a 6... My foot would not fit in the shoe unless my heel was hanging off...
I say JY big boat oar foot would NOT have fit into the size 10.... His foot looks just like hubbys...


MOO MOO MOO

They would if he cut across the toes of the shoes. This way he
would leave a full imprint. I'm assuming they were tossed anyway
after they served their purpose. So it can be done.

When you have to do something many things come to mind.
His feet would still be in the shoes with enough weight to make
that imprint.

Where there's a will you'll find a way! JMO

 

[Talina]

But until today people have acted like it was the gospel that he could wear the shoes... Now we all know its possible he may not have.. Simple as that ;-) Really none of us know.... You say he could I say he couldnt.... What does the jury think?? Or do they even think about the size 10.. I know I would really be thinking why didnt they expound on the shoes..

BBM

I don't interpret the posts that way at all. I see people adamant that it was possible, not gospel that in fact he did do it.

What one person can do with sufficient motivation will sometimes outweigh what another will or can do without the same motivation. A man with a size 12 foot trying to get a size 10 shoe on, if it begins to hurt and he thinks he is going to get blisters or cut into his skin somewhat, is not necessarily going to force his foot to fit. Whereas, someone in the position the murderer would have been in that same hypothetical is not going to care and would try harder (or at least it makes sense to me to view it that way).

That coupled with the fact that sizes do vary from one shoe brand to another, adds to the mix to make it even more variable.

I know I could not fit my foot in a size of shoe 2 sizes below what I normally wear. I also know that others can. I've seen my daughters do it. Everyone is different.

The fact is, we just don't know. What we do know is that is not completely impossible for everyone.

IMO

 

[gracielee]

I would have paid money to see JY put on a size 10 Franklin.

He would have pulled an O.J. and spread his toes out and stiffened up his foot. Much like my grandchildren did when they didn't want their shoes put on their feet. :fence: MOO

 

[johnfear]

Ooooh, can I play? I think:

Pros:
The franklins.
The fingerprints
The miscommunications that led to the testimony on what clothing was seized when
The doll play

Defense:
The HPs
The insurance monies are hard to make go away and a lot of time was spent
The therapists visits
The closing by Klink

 

[SteelerGirl43]

I would have paid money to see JY put on a size 10 Franklin.

Me & you both Cody....

 

[Turnadot]

He would have pulled an O.J. and spread his toes out and stiffened up his foot. Much like my grandchildren did when they didn't want their shoes put on their feet. :fence: MOO

Haha, gmta!

 

[Grammy Jean]

I recall Linda Fisher's testimony, something to the effect of 'her michelle not being the same girl she had been.' 'Happy, fun-loving, jovial, love of life.' That 'this michelle was laying with her head in her mom's lap, looking broken.' Each of our daughters dated one JERK before getting married. I remember one in particular, that was similar to this previous description by Linda. I remember talking to my daughter on the phone, when she was living with her JERK. I don't recall how it came up, but I remember daughter crying to me over the phone 'you just don't want me to be happy' when I was probably pointing out and attempting to encourage her to take stock of where her life was at that moment. I remember saying 'honey, if you are so *happy* why do you always look so sad?' "Why are you crying all the time?" "If he's such a 'good guy' why do you always appear so miserable?" It was shortly after that discussion she moved out of their apartment. She told me at a later point in time, those were the words that woke her up, for lack of a better term. It was that conversation between us that made her stop and think about what I said, about her unhappiness. I think had michelle had a bit more time, a few more therapy sessions, she would have been able to think clearly enough to see that 'she wasn't the problem, he was. JMO

I so much agree with you. I also think MY may have even conveyed that strength of purpose that she was done to JY in the argument they had that Wednesday night. I think JY knowing she was serious about leaving was probably more angry than he had ever been at MY that night and I do believe he threw that remote at her, which probably only strengthened her resolve to be done. I think JY knowing AF was not going to visit and that JY had his trip as what he considered a perfect alibi this was the catalyst that he started planning the return to Raleigh and the murder plan that Thursday morning.

 

[Just the Fax]

JTF... do we have cell phone records from the 2nd? I have seen a reference that JY made 17 phone calls to Michelle on 11/2 from 9:56pm to 11:04pm. That is a LOT of phone calls in just over an hour. Just wanted to see if that was indeed true or not, but IMO that could indicate rage building over something... did she tell him she was done? She wanted out and for him not to come back? Obviously we have no evidence this occurred, I just have a horrible feeling about those calls...

9:15 and then 9:56pm - 11:04pm
total of 18 calls to home (some 0 seconds)

Sounds like she ignored most.

 

[Stella5]

Some people are just unlucky....

Totally O/T sorry & Snipped by me... ain't that the truth! My uncle was riding in his car in Dallas when he was hit by Delta flight 191. Killed instantly simply driving down the road by an airplane that hit windshear and crashed. How likely is that?!

 

[Turnadot]

What's ironic is that Klink's closing argument filled the gaps, because he admitted the HP print was made by Jason's shoe, and that someone had cleaned up Cassidy. To me, these were things that could go for reasonable doubt, until Klink put a stamp of approval on the PT's theory, that yes, it's all true, but... then his WTF explanations. I can't imagine what he was thinking during that closing. He basically put his client at the scene.

IMO

 

[Talina]

Just for the sake of putting yourselves in someone else's shoes (bad analogy in this trial), for those that are on the NG side, what do you think are the State's 3 strongest pieces of evidence for GUILT, and for those on the G side, what do you think are the Defense's 3 strongest pieces of evidence for NOT GUILTY. Everyone has pointed out the one's that they think support their position.

My vote is for GUILTY, but the 3 pieces that I think are the strongest for the Defense are:

-2 witnesses that saw a SUV near the driveway of home b/w 5 and 6am.
-Gracie's testimony being questionable
-clean NTO

Anyone else willing to play? I think this will give an interesting perspective and may help this group be less divided and snarky ;o)

Three things I could see a juror getting hung up on and saying NG:

1- No marks or scratches on JY
2 - Too tight of a timeline for the drive back and forth (no room for any mistakes at all could be argued)
3 - No history of physical violence towards MY (some people need to see past behavior of actual physical violence that leads up to a more violent attack)

 

[Stella5]

9:15 and then 9:56pm - 11:04pm
total of 18 calls to home (some 0 seconds)

Sounds like she ignored most.

Thanks! The thing I'm seeing says they were 0 seconds all the way up to 278 seconds, so she definitely ignored a bunch of them and IMO would of incited anger on his part that she was refusing to speak to him.

I'd love the detailed call reports, and don't know if they are in evidence; but another source I'm seeing he NEVER called home that much ever... why on this night, right before she ends up beaten to death.

His last call home was 11:04-11:09, so they did talk then.

 

[johnfear]

What's ironic is that Klink's closing argument filled the gaps, because he admitted the HP print was made by Jason's shoe, and that someone had cleaned up Cassidy. To me, these were things that could go for reasonable doubt, until Klink put a stamp of approval on the PT's theory, that yes, it's all true, but... then his WTF explanations. I can't imagine what he was thinking during that closing. He basically put his client at the scene.

IMO

No kidding. I had wondered if that was flubbing or if he had picked out a person or two he thought he had to be more forthcoming with. It was ridiculous. That lost major points for me.