Viable suspect: Damien Echols

[Diddy98]

They were murdered by an entirely sane, and evil, person.

I have always thought they were murdered by bullying going way to far. I don't think the wm3 started out to murder them. And yes, I do think the right folks were in jail. I don't think there was any satanic overtones. They were not just some innocent kids railroaded by the state of Arkansas. Whether you believe they did these crimes or not, they were not innocent kids. In small towns in Arkansas, police were very reluctant to arrest juveniles. While I would agree to Misskelley being coerced in the first confession, I do believe you have to give weight to his continuing to confess. The trying to blame it on parents of the murdered children. I honestly had doubts about TH for a long time. Watching several interviews where both DE and JB accuse Myers and TH changed my mind. Watch them. You tube has most of them. Actually, you only have to watch one, the rest are almost verbatim exchange Myers name for Hobbs. JMHO

 

[Cappuccino]

His name is not Myers, its Byers. And the rest of your post is equally innaccurate.

 

[reedus23]

Well, assuming you're telling the truth: your brother is a dirty liar. I'd bet the bank he couldn't even pick me out of a lineup. That said, don't take my word for it, but rather ask your brother to create a statement documenting the details of what, when and where he supposedly witnessed me doing what he told you, and sign and submit that to the proper authorities so someone who has a reasonable understanding of how to evaluate evidence can investigate your brother's slanderous claims against me. Not that I expect he'll ever do as much though, as I figure most people know better than to make false allegations to law enforcement, particularly in signed statements.


What conflict in dates are you alluding to here exactly?

The point was rhetorical, though you clearly made the point I was trying to convey. Namely, that a person could submit a statement with all those things you just said, but that still doesn't make it accurate. IMO, the same can be said of the statements regarding Damien and the great dane and LE did exactly what you suggested and didn't find those claims to have any merit.

 

[kyleb]

Actually Kyleb I don't think half the people who go to psychiatrists are fakers.

Fair enough, neither do I. Some certainly, but half seems absurdly unlikely to me.

Namely, that a person could submit a statement with all those things you just said, but that still doesn't make it accurate.

You only proved that you've no qualms with inventing a story about your brother slandering me with lies, which doesn't doesn't come anywhere close to proving Joe Bartoush and Heather Cliett engaged in any such dishonesty.

the same can be said of the statements regarding Damien and the great dane and LE did exactly what you suggested and didn't find those claims to have any merit.

Where exactly can one find the investigation conclusions which you allege?

 

[EntreNous]

What's funny is as I was reading your last statement I realized I too, was rubbing my index finger over my thumb nail.

I watched the interview posted and personally I don't see how he is holding his hand in a peculiar way, I couldn't for the life of me see any tremors. Looked to me as though he must just get some kind of comfort from rubbing his fingers together.

After doing a quick search of the condition and watching a few more videos I can't see how anyone could make the leap of describing similar actions here.

jmo.

me too!! on a side note, what DE is doing in the video looks very controlled compared to other videos in which patients seemingly have no control over what is called by the medical field a tremor because it actually IS a tremor. Tremor being an involuntary quivering movement. in DE's case there was no quivering whatsoever and it was far from involuntary as he started and stopped at will, depending on what he was saying and how he used his hand to further express what he was saying.
i think if you will type "Pill rolling tremor in youtube's search you'll find several fine examples of these tremors which bare no resemblance to DE.

 

[kyleb]

what DE is doing in the video looks very controlled compared to other videos

I'm far from the mental heath professional Pensfan is, but I suspect that's the difference between severe and mild tardive dyskinesia, as discussed in this clinical study among many other places which can be found across the web.

he started and stopped at will

What makes you so certain he started at will, rather than simply stopping after catching himself having started the behaviors involuntarily?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Fine. Damien's mad as a hatter.

Now, can we get back to the issue of justice for the three murdered children? They weren't murdered by a mad person. They were murdered by an entirely sane, and evil, person.

^This

 

[Pensfan]

I'm far from the mental heath professional Pensfan is, but I suspect that's the difference between severe and mild tardive dyskinesia, as discussed in this clinical study among many other places which can be found across the web.


What makes you so certain he started at will, rather than simply stopping after catching himself having started the behaviors involuntarily?

When TD symptoms are present, but not severe in the hands, they can be SOMETIMES be controlled by the patient when he/she does certain activities like contracting the muscles, holding the hand in a certain position, and etc.. When this certain position is altered or the muscles or no longer flexed (or whenever the trick ceases to temporarily prevent the tremor) the involuntary tremor immediately begins again.

This is one way health professionals can tell if it is a an involuntary tremor. Have the patient grasp a ball, pencil, your hand, or etc... Observe the hand at this time for the tremor. Then have the patient put his/her hand at their side in a relaxed position. Involuntary tremors will immediately begin when his/her hand is at rest. The tremors may not show when the hand is being flexed, clinched, being outstretched in a weird manner like Damien Echol's was on the Piers Morgan show, and etc... Stopping involuntary movements of the face/mouth/tongue are not easy like when they present in the hands. There are medications to help decrease the severity of tremors, but they also have unpleasant side effects (extreme thirst, cotton mouth, blurred vision, constipation, and etc...)

 

[reedus23]

You only proved that you've no qualms with inventing a story about your brother slandering me with lies, which doesn't doesn't come anywhere close to proving Joe Bartoush and Heather Cliett engaged in any such dishonesty.

We tend to call them hypotheticals. What it does demonstrate is that you can't take all statements at face value. Just because someone says so, doesn't make it so and to answer your second point, I would suspect LE did investigate it and didn't find anything to substantiate or corroborate it or it would have been stressed during the trial.

 

[kyleb]

Sure, if such and such had happened, then so and so would've done this and that, but since so and so didn't do this and that then such and such never happened. Thats quite the rhetorical loop you weave to effectively accuse Baldwin's cousin and girlfriend of providing false witness reports against Echols after he was arrested with Baldwin.

 

[Tricia]

Everyone Please Listen Up

On Websleuths we do not allow name calling, baiting, or personal attacks on other posters.

Please check out our rules.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159"]The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


Thank you for your cooperation.

Tricia Griffith
Co-owner Websleuths.com

 

[UdbCrzy2]

There are a few questions related to DE's psychiatric history and treatment on Death Row so I thought I'd start a thread to discuss it here ..

I haven't seen anything after the crime, but that could be a HIPPA violation, you know health care privacy.

I know that the 500 files were available because his defense submitted those. Wasn't it done so that he would not get the death penalty?

We probably will never see anything about his mental illness again.

 

[kyleb]

Yeah, the only actual documentation on Echols mental heath history is what he released to his defense shortly after his arrest and which they in turn had to disclose when they called a doctor to reference those documents in the penalty hearing after he was convicted. All we have to go on regarding Echols' psychological condition since are own claims since any doctors who've treated him can't release information on him without his permission. Furthermore, given how dishonest Echols has been regarding his mental heath history over the period for which documentation is publicly available, he can't rightly be taken at his word regarding what mental heath treatment he has received or otherwise since then.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I think he is dishonest about many things including the not being able to eat with a fork, not able to walk, not being able to see, etc.

In photos he looks nourished, he claims to have read tons of books while incarcerated which tells me the blindness is a lie. He knows that medical records would never be released without his permission, so why not keep the pity pot going, it also produces a generous amount of donations.

 

[reedus23]

I think he is dishonest about many things including the not being able to eat with a fork, not able to walk, not being able to see, etc.

In photos he looks nourished, he claims to have read tons of books while incarcerated which tells me the blindness is a lie. He knows that medical records would never be released without his permission, so why not keep the pity pot going, it also produces a generous amount of donations.

I have no clue about the truth or veracity of those claims. I'm don't believe they impact whether or not I believe there was enough evidence to convict him.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

In photos he looks nourished, he claims to have read tons of books while incarcerated which tells me the blindness is a lie. He knows that medical records would never be released without his permission, so why not keep the pity pot going, it also produces a generous amount of donations.

If you look at Damien now, yes, he is well-nourished. However, if you look at the video of the Alford hearing, you will see a very emaciated and sickly young man. As to the vision, he never claimed to be blind; he just said that he had lost the ability to see more than a few feet. Apparently, it made his eyes hurt to do so; hence, the dark glasses that he wore for quite some time (still wears occasionally, as many people do in bright sunlight). As to the notion that the "pity pot" is producing a "generous amount of donations," do you have any proof of that? From what I've been hearing, donations are not that high anymore as they are out of prison and most people believe that's enough. Those people don't seem to realize that, until they're exonerated, they can't vote, own certain weapons and several other restrictions which I can't remember right now.

Exoneration will only come when the real killer (or killers) is investigated and charged. Exoneration will be the logical step just prior to the trial of the real killer or killers. So, the focus must be on obtaining information that could be evidence against the real killer or killers. IMO, that is just what is happening now. Everything's just not being made public for obvious (to me, at least) reasons.

 

[Hez]

If you look at Damien now, yes, he is well-nourished. However, if you look at the video of the Alford hearing, you will see a very emaciated and sickly young man. As to the vision, he never claimed to be blind; he just said that he had lost the ability to see more than a few feet. Apparently, it made his eyes hurt to do so; hence, the dark glasses that he wore for quite some time (still wears occasionally, as many people do in bright sunlight). As to the notion that the "pity pot" is producing a "generous amount of donations," do you have any proof of that? From what I've been hearing, donations are not that high anymore as they are out of prison and most people believe that's enough. Those people don't seem to realize that, until they're exonerated, they can't vote, own certain weapons and several other restrictions which I can't remember right now.

Exoneration will only come when the real killer (or killers) is investigated and charged. Exoneration will be the logical step just prior to the trial of the real killer or killers. So, the focus must be on obtaining information that could be evidence against the real killer or killers. IMO, that is just what is happening now. Everything's just not being made public for obvious (to me, at least) reasons.

Thanks wasn't enough. It is pretty obvious that Damien wasn't lying about his physical condition upon his release from prison and the video backs that up, which is more than I can say about the weak circular arguments constantly presented in this forum as proof of the WM3's guilt.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I have noticed while reviewing old footage of Damien, especially in interviews, that he has accused others of a number of things in relation to this case.

I am not just talking about accusing John Mark Byers of being the killer, or of more recent accusations against Terry Hobbs, but he has also accused Jerry Driver of demanding sexual favours from teen boys, guards of beating him when he first arrived in prison, and of being raped on death row.

I'm going to keep each accusation in a new post and add links of him making the accusations, if he has retracted them at a later date or if they have been proved or backed up by another party it would be interesting to see that too.

He has had a lot to say over the years.

 

[Cappuccino]

Well, he definitely retracted the accusation against JMB. I believe he wrote to JMB and apologised too, I seem to remember Byers reading the letter out on camera during PL3.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

The alleged rape of Damien Echols

In the second part of the four-part series in the Jonesboro Sun, Echols told reporter George Jared that he had been “repeatedly raped after family visitations and forced to perform sex acts with guards.”

Here is a link to the article: http://www.wm3blackboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=3124.0;wap2

Prison hasn’t been kind to him, Echols said. His eyesight is waning, and his teeth are deteriorating. Echols claims that prison guards hurt his teeth when they hit his face. He said he was told that one tooth could be repaired, but officials will only allow it to be pulled.

“They’re not going to spend a lot of money for medical treatment for someone they plan to kill,” he said.

Echols claims he’s been repeatedly raped after family visitations and forced to perform sex acts with guards.

The original piece is only obtainable via this board because ..

"Initially, I got the Jonesboro Sun series from a “Free West Memphis Three” website. The four articles have been removed from the site. I wonder why? I tried to access the series through the newspaper website for hyperlink in this article, but was informed I would have to pay a $7.95 registration fee to “sign up” for old/archived articles. I am not about the spend $7.95 for anything about the West Memphis Three. For those determined to “fact-check” my source of information, please feel free to do so."

http://www.capitalpunishmentbook.com/?p=675

CLAIM OF RAPE ON DEATH ROW MAY BE HOAX

Arkansas Democrat-Gazette
June 7, 1995, Wednesday
SECTION: NEWS ; Pg. 2B
LENGTH: 391 words
HEADLINE: CLAIM OF RAPE ON DEATH ROW MAY BE HOAX
BYLINE: RAY PIERCE, Democrat-Gazette Pine Bluff Bureau
DATELINE: PINE BLUFF

-- A condemned murderer's claim that he was raped in prison may have been a ruse to entice the Arkansas State Police to investigate certain activities on death row.

Sources close to the investigation said Damien Echols, sentenced to death in 1994 for the murders of three West Memphis boys, recanted his story about being raped by death row inmate Mark Gardner.

The allegation appears to have been fabricated, possibly with Gardner's help, to get state police investigators to death row at the Maximum Security Unit at Tucker, the sources said.
The state police has finished an investigation at the prison. On Tuesday, state police investigators presented their findings to prison officials and Prosecuting Attorney Betty Dickey.

http://westmemphishomicidesdiscussi...Gardner-WHAT-Echols-lied?page=-1#.Up1OeJGZOXs

INQUIRY FINDS NO PROOF ECHOLS RAPED CORRECTION DEPARTMENT STILL STUDYING HOW CONTRABAND GOT ON DEATH ROW

Arkansas State Police investigators found no substantial evidence that death row inmate Damien Echols was raped by fellow inmate Mark Gardner, an Arkansas State Police spokesman said Wednesday.

.......

Jordan said that if Echols --convicted for the 1993 murder of three West Memphis boys --has had sex with Gardner, it was not forced. "Echols and Gardner changed their story about the alleged attack on several different occasions," Jordan said. "They either alleged that there were several rapes or that there were none at all."

Jordan and Ables confirmed reports that an 8/4-inch by 14/4-inch cinder block in the wall between Echols' and Gardner's cells had been removed and replaced with a papier-mache block that had apparently been in place about nine months. Among conflicting accounts investigators received were that Gardner threatened to kill Echols if Echols didn't crawl through the space, or that Gardner crawled through the opening and raped Echols.

https://www.facebook.com/wm3truth/posts/378013398952976