Viable suspect: Damien Echols

[Tuffgong]

Before I get to the rest of my post, I'll clarify by saying that I believe it's highly likely the WM3 committed the murders. I would be surprised if it was proven one day that anyone else did it. That said, there were multiple concerns with evidence, witness and trial handling so while they may have been found not guilty from a legal sense if they were tried again, that does not make them innocent. People confuse the two far too often. As for Damien, he checks multiple boxes that you'd look for in a viable suspect:

- Proven history of violence against animals and attempted violence against humans
- Lengthy mental health history including multiple incidents relating to homicidal, suicidal and psychopathic behavior
- No proven alibi for the timeframe when the murders likely took place
- Bragged about committing the murders to girls at the softball field (regardless if he was "joking" as he now claims)
- Knowing several details about the murders not known to the public - then playing it off in court that he had heard them from TV, "people talking", etc.

These are even before Jessie's obviously damning confession. I won't get into an argument about the validity of it. My personal opinion is that while the WMPD did ask multiple leading questions and could have done a much better job with the questioning itself, the confession is genuine and Jessie was actually describing how the murders occurred. This is backed up by his multiple other confessions that you never hear about including the ones on February 5th and 8th 1994 after he was convicted where he confessed to the police on the drive to prison and to his own defense attorney when there was no deal or legal benefit to do so.

I can see supporters viewpoint of some of the errors made by LE during the investigation and trials, however to convince yourself that the WM3 - especially Damien - were normal, regular guys that were singled out because of what they wore, listened to, etc. is just nonsense. There are so many factual and reality leaps you have to do to get to that conclusion, I'll just never understand it hence why I can see why a jury might find them not guilty legally but to say they are completely factually innocent of this crime is absurd imo.

I have never ruled them out, but would say it is more like 60/40 they didn't. They went after the weakest link when interrogating these buys and a lot of coercion took place. Then you have snitches getting cut deals, the case was just never proven. I think you had an awful crime and someone had to pay to make everybody feel better. I have always seen similarities to the Austin Yogurt Shop murders.

 

[ACG2x]

I have never ruled them out, but would say it is more like 60/40 they didn't. They went after the weakest link when interrogating these buys and a lot of coercion took place. Then you have snitches getting cut deals, the case was just never proven. I think you had an awful crime and someone had to pay to make everybody feel better. I have always seen similarities to the Austin Yogurt Shop murders.

Ehhhh...I understand the logic behind what you are saying. Just happen to disagree with it. I think the prosecutor did a really nice job trying this case and based on how the evidence was presented in court, the verdicts were the correct ones. That said, the WMPD did a sloppy job investigating and questioning on several fronts so yes, the odds were stacked against the three to begin with but that doesn't mean they are innocent.

I'll hedge on your 60/40 whether or not they did the crime and say that had all things been done by the book and were equal heading into trial, there's a 60/40 chance at least one of them would've been acquitted or found not guilty in a legal sense. If you are talking about whether or not they are factually innocent and should be completely exonerated of the crime - that's a much different story. For me, there's less than a 10% chance anyone else on earth did this but some combination of these three and Damien was absolutely involved.

I do agree though that all US citizens, even those accused of capital child murder, deserve their fair day in court and while the trials were handled fine, the lead up collecting evidence left a lot to be desired. Once again, that may result in them being found not guilty but I cannot be convinced they are innocent.

 

[Tuffgong]

My

Ehhhh...I understand the logic behind what you are saying. Just happen to disagree with it. I think the prosecutor did a really nice job trying this case and based on how the evidence was presented in court, the verdicts were the correct ones. That said, the WMPD did a sloppy job investigating and questioning on several fronts so yes, the odds were stacked against the three to begin with but that doesn't mean they are innocent.

I'll hedge on your 60/40 whether or not they did the crime and say that had all things been done by the book and were equal heading into trial, there's a 60/40 chance at least one of them would've been acquitted or found not guilty in a legal sense. If you are talking about whether or not they are factually innocent and should be completely exonerated of the crime - that's a much different story. For me, there's less than a 10% chance anyone else on earth did this but some combination of these three and Damien was absolutely involved.

I do agree though that all US citizens, even those accused of capital child murder, deserve their fair day in court and while the trials were handled fine, the lead up collecting evidence left a lot to be desired. Once again, that may result in them being found not guilty but I cannot be convinced they are innocent.

The police had no suspects or clue who did this. They then interpreted the wounds on the body as being part of a satanic killing. They asked a juvenile officer if he knew of any kids that practiced satanism, he said Echols and his buddies. Now, if one accepts that the wounds on the bodies were turtle bites, etc. that means that the suspects were literally pulled out of nowhere and based on a myth.

 

[sk716]

I meant "rural" in a cultural sense. I can show you some rural areas right outside of Austin that are night and day from the city life and progressivism of Austin. I believe the West Memphis community fits a rural description. And let's be honest, those boys were into the satanic culture.

Rural and redneck are not the same thing.

Certainly Echols was into occultism. As I've pointed out he wanted to be cool and/or scary, teenage boys are notoriously stupid in that regard. I've never been clear on whether Echols had actually read any LeVay or Crowley, if he had he would have been into it for the possibility of lots of sex. I am aware that real Wiccans aren't having orgies every night, but it has always been common for "covens" to be all about having as much sex as possible with as many people as possible.

Baldwin, being Echols friend was probably more into metal than anything occult related and just went along with his friend. Jessie Miskelley, on the other hand wasn't even friends with the other two, the three knew each other but they weren't friends. I also haven't ever seen any evidence that Miskelley was dabbling in the occult, he certainly didn't understand any of it.

 

[Userid]

Rural and redneck are not the same thing.

Certainly Echols was into occultism. As I've pointed out he wanted to be cool and/or scary, teenage boys are notoriously stupid in that regard. I've never been clear on whether Echols had actually read any LeVay or Crowley, if he had he would have been into it for the possibility of lots of sex. I am aware that real Wiccans aren't having orgies every night, but it has always been common for "covens" to be all about having as much sex as possible with as many people as possible.

Baldwin, being Echols friend was probably more into metal than anything occult related and just went along with his friend. Jessie Miskelley, on the other hand wasn't even friends with the other two, the three knew each other but they weren't friends. I also haven't ever seen any evidence that Miskelley was dabbling in the occult, he certainly didn't understand any of it.

It's a common fallacy to state that "JM wasn't even friends with the other two." This is unequivocally false. JM and JB were indeed good friends. They grew up in the same trailer park (Lakeshore) at one point, before JM moved to another trailer park, but that is where their friendship started. DE likes to downplay that he "hardly knew" JM, even though it is an established fact that JM introduced DE to VH and even though DE's best friend (JB) was good friends with JM.

My point is, multiple people have gone on record stating that the three were friends and that they ran with the same crew. And of course, DE and JB would try to separate from JM because he was the one who confessed the crime -- they had to.

 

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[fruit loop]

The West Memphis 3 were falsely convicted due to the Satanic Panic of the 1990s. An “occult expert”, “Dr.” Dale Griffis provided testimony that was debunked by REAL occult experts and Wiccan priests. This “doctor” got his “degree” from Columbia Pacific University, a mail-order diploma mill that was shut down and barred from operating in several states.

The parents of the murdered children no longer believe they were responsible.

The police in Austin stupidly wasted months investigating “people in black” over a possible occult angle, although there was no evidence to suggest this. Entire rock bands were hauled in and questioned. The police embarrassed themselves by raiding a Wiccan priestess’ home on CBS 48 Hours. There was no evidence of occultism (real Wiccans, by the way, NEVER harm children) but it spawned lurid rumors about the girls’ bodies being mutilated and chickens placed in their chest cavities, heads decapitated and posed and things like HAIL SATAN written on the wall.

The Austin Police Dept was not competent to handle an investigation of this calibre. They no llonger want to make an effort to solve it because their incompetence and lack of timely action will be exposed, their shoddy investigations of Springsteen and Scott exposed again, the state and police dept do not want to have to pay damages to those wrongly convicted, or have to face the girls’ parents. Their goals now are to protect themselves and the department, not to solve or even work this case.

 

[Userid]

The West Memphis 3 were falsely convicted due to the Satanic Panic of the 1990s. An “occult expert”, “Dr.” Dale Griffis provided testimony that was debunked by REAL occult experts and Wiccan priests. This “doctor” got his “degree” from Columbia Pacific University, a mail-order diploma mill that was shut down and barred from operating in several states.

The parents of the murdered children no longer believe they were responsible.

The police in Austin stupidly wasted months investigating “people in black” over a possible occult angle, although there was no evidence to suggest this. Entire rock bands were hauled in and questioned. The police embarrassed themselves by raiding a Wiccan priestess’ home on CBS 48 Hours. There was no evidence of occultism (real Wiccans, by the way, NEVER harm children) but it spawned lurid rumors about the girls’ bodies being mutilated and chickens placed in their chest cavities, heads decapitated and posed and things like HAIL SATAN written on the wall.

The Austin Police Dept was not competent to handle an investigation of this calibre. They no llonger want to make an effort to solve it because their incompetence and lack of timely action will be exposed, their shoddy investigations of Springsteen and Scott exposed again, the state and police dept do not want to have to pay damages to those wrongly convicted, or have to face the girls’ parents. Their goals now are to protect themselves and the department, not to solve or even work this case.

MM's parents both still believe the WM3 did it. MB died believing the WM3 did it (she never said otherwise before her death). So in reality, the majority of the victims' parents still believe(d) the WM3 did it, other than two (PH and JMB).

 

[OakieBoy]

Sorry OT
Can someone tell me who is this True Romance person and where i can read more about her friendship with JM?

Thanks

 

[CastlesBurning]

Mark Fuhrman dives into ‘West Memphis Three’ case, calls it ‘flawed’ from the start

Former Los Angeles Police Detective Mark Fuhrman on Thursday discussed what he called the "flaws" of the West Memphis Three case's investigation, a subject he covers in the upcoming season of "Fuhrman Diaries" on Fox Nation.

 

[sk716]

Mark Fuhrman dives into ‘West Memphis Three’ case, calls it ‘flawed’ from the start

Former Los Angeles Police Detective Mark Fuhrman on Thursday discussed what he called the "flaws" of the West Memphis Three case's investigation, a subject he covers in the upcoming season of "Fuhrman Diaries" on Fox Nation.

*snort* I guess a guy who bungled murder evidence knows it when he sees it.

 

[Shakerbhoy]

ACG2X I totally get your points,and indeed all very valid ones but those points do not make somebody a murderer,despite all your points you cannot hide from the fact that when all said and done there was hardly a shred of evidence....if any,to tie the WM3 to the murder scene,in fact there was quite the opposite in a hair entangled in a knot that didn't match any of the WM3..

Just watched Bob Ruffs new Docu on this subject and theres many a different lead that for some reason they have chosen not to investigate,John Mark Byers,Terry Hobbs etc,if they *had* have exhausted every avenue of investigation and still thought the WM3 were guilty then fair enough....but they haven't.

The investigation was botched from start to finish,a complete travesty with 3 people possibly serving 18 years for a crime they may not have committed and a killer possibly remaining free forever

 

[Kennedy Jo]

At this point I am clueless. I think I have said this before, one person could not control and kill three little boys. The others would run. Doesn't mean I have any idea who did it. Just that someone out there knows.

 

[Kennedy Jo]

My


The police had no suspects or clue who did this. They then interpreted the wounds on the body as being part of a satanic killing. They asked a juvenile officer if he knew of any kids that practiced satanism, he said Echols and his buddies. Now, if one accepts that the wounds on the bodies were turtle bites, etc. that means that the suspects were literally pulled out of nowhere and based on a myth.

Just curious. Do you think they are turtle bites? I don't. At one point I was a trained death investigator and I haven't read the forensics on the bites.

 

[Kennedy Jo]

Ehhhh...I understand the logic behind what you are saying. Just happen to disagree with it. I think the prosecutor did a really nice job trying this case and based on how the evidence was presented in court, the verdicts were the correct ones. That said, the WMPD did a sloppy job investigating and questioning on several fronts so yes, the odds were stacked against the three to begin with but that doesn't mean they are innocent.

I'll hedge on your 60/40 whether or not they did the crime and say that had all things been done by the book and were equal heading into trial, there's a 60/40 chance at least one of them would've been acquitted or found not guilty in a legal sense. If you are talking about whether or not they are factually innocent and should be completely exonerated of the crime - that's a much different story. For me, there's less than a 10% chance anyone else on earth did this but some combination of these three and Damien was absolutely involved.
I have always thought so.
I do agree though that all US citizens, even those accused of capital child murder, deserve their fair day in court and while the trials were handled fine, the lead up collecting evidence left a lot to be desired. Once again, that may result in them being found not guilty but I cannot be convinced they are innocent.

 

[DHT1339]

At this point I am clueless. I think I have said this before, one person could not control and kill three little boys. The others would run. Doesn't mean I have any idea who did it. Just that someone out there knows.

what makes you say one person wouldn't be able to control and kill three little boys? especially if that person is someone the boys know and trust

 

[7Wm3100]

what makes you say one person wouldn't be able to control and kill three little boys? especially if that person is someone the boys know and trust

Without cctv footage of the murders surely you have to work on the far more likely scenario. In that case....one person being able to control and kill 3 boys outside in the open is far more likely to be more than one suspect. Especially when you factor in the 3 different knots used to tie the kids up.

 

[Nadal]

He was prosecuted and convicted. Then he plead guilty. He is a TWICE convicted child killer. Find a new hero.

I said TWICE that i don't know if he's guilty or not. What i do know is conviction ≠ guilt, countless wrongful convictions throughout history show otherwise. Also an Alford Plea means you still assert your innocence but acknowledge there's enough evidence to convict you. Damian took this to avoid the DEATH PENALTY. If he's innocent should he reject that and head to the chair to appease you? Any innocent person would have taken that, Jason took it so Damian got off Death Row despite initially wanting to fight it because he realized another mans life was more important than pleasing those who believe the courts judgements are gospel.

 

[Nadal]

At this point I am clueless. I think I have said this before, one person could not control and kill three little boys. The others would run. Doesn't mean I have any idea who did it. Just that someone out there knows.

I think a grown man could do this without much effort particularly in a wide open area where the boys would need to travel quite a bit to reach other people. Wouldn't be difficult for a grown man to incapacitate children their age with a single blow, hit two of them then catch the third. This situation would also be terrifying for the boys it's possible they were too scared to leave. Awful.

 

[Doctari]

Before I get to the rest of my post, I'll clarify by saying that I believe it's highly likely the WM3 committed the murders. I would be surprised if it was proven one day that anyone else did it. That said, there were multiple concerns with evidence, witness and trial handling so while they may have been found not guilty from a legal sense if they were tried again, that does not make them innocent. People confuse the two far too often. As for Damien, he checks multiple boxes that you'd look for in a viable suspect:

- Proven history of violence against animals and attempted violence against humans
- Lengthy mental health history including multiple incidents relating to homicidal, suicidal and psychopathic behavior
- No proven alibi for the timeframe when the murders likely took place
- Bragged about committing the murders to girls at the softball field (regardless if he was "joking" as he now claims)
- Knowing several details about the murders not known to the public - then playing it off in court that he had heard them from TV, "people talking", etc.

These are even before Jessie's obviously damning confession. I won't get into an argument about the validity of it. My personal opinion is that while the WMPD did ask multiple leading questions and could have done a much better job with the questioning itself, the confession is genuine and Jessie was actually describing how the murders occurred. This is backed up by his multiple other confessions that you never hear about including the ones on February 5th and 8th 1994 after he was convicted where he confessed to the police on the drive to prison and to his own defense attorney when there was no deal or legal benefit to do so.

I can see supporters viewpoint of some of the errors made by LE during the investigation and trials, however to convince yourself that the WM3 - especially Damien - were normal, regular guys that were singled out because of what they wore, listened to, etc. is just nonsense. There are so many factual and reality leaps you have to do to get to that conclusion, I'll just never understand it hence why I can see why a jury might find them not guilty legally but to say they are completely factually innocent of this crime is absurd imo.

It is so refreshing to hear that someone else actually understands this case. I grew up in a suburb of Memphis and was about 15 when the crime occurred. The narrative that this was some sort of witch hunt based on “Satanic Panic” is completely ludicrous. They were just “different”, listened to Metallica and read Stephen King. All that might be true, but had NOTHING to do with the arrest of these three murderers. West Memphis Arkansas is just a little poor redneck town with not much to do accept hang out at the Walmart. I guess it would be easy to assume that their police department isn’t top notch, which again might be true, but in this case they actually did an amazing job on this case.
If it wasn’t for those Paradise Lost documentaries, we would have never heard of this case again. Is it even legal to produce a documentary that leaves out ALL of the evidence that was presented against them in the trial? Do viewers realize that in these “movies” they accuse TWO different step-fathers as being guilty? With literally ZERO evidence against either of them. As you said, there was NO concrete evidence that anyone committed this crime. No DNA, nothing. Meanwhile there is loads of circumstantial evidence that the WM3 are guilty. One of the big things to me is that not 1 of 3 high school boys can come up with a valid, confirmable alibi on a weeknight? Nuts. And Misskelly confessed 5 f-ing times. Giving specifics about that night that were not available to the public. So whether or not there was enough evidence to convict, is certainly debatable. But to declare that they are certainly innocent is insane. I just don't understand....Cheers mate! I was starting to think I was losing my mind.