Viable suspect: Terry Hobbs #1

[Justiceseeker35]

Gosh I wish someone would just confess. This case is driving me nuts with how crazy all the details are.

 

[AngelVsion]

Right! DJ accounts of searching are all over the place. In one version he stated he played guitars early on and TH left while Amanda stayed and was watched at his house by DJ and DJ didn't participate in the search until after TH picked up PH. JMB stated that TH didn't show up to let him know anyone was missing until around 8:30 so after sun set then participated in the search. So that puts TH's whereabouts in question from 6-8:30 pm. One neighbor's account states the kids headed into the woods at 6:30. So there's a 6:30 to about 8 pm window they could be attacked. I think the killer would have to be real quick on his feet about attacking, binding, and hiding three incapacitated kids.

This case has shaken me to the core of my being. Not only for the victims, but those IMHO that were wrongly accused. I have quoted JusticeSeeker because of the statement that the two in question, TH and DJ were looking for the boys, while playing guitar as DJ stated.. PH said CB watched TV with AH that day, TH didn't see this? Perhaps he did and this was the motive.. also how did they (TH & DJ) know the boys were together? TH Claims he did not see them. Side note, If I wanted to know where my child was and thought he was with a playmate, I would go to their homes and ask. I wouldn't call the police, which makes me think that JMB did not have involvement. I don't think he would send for the police to look for the children if the murders were in the vicinity he was pointing to.. I do feel the information about the case was leaked to the community and since Mr. Byers had his friends with the force, it is my belief, he started the "rumors" of how heinous the crimes actually were. I know it was like a Circus and JMB was a rodeo clown, and also the WMPD had a long list of errors made regarding judgment. Yet, I wish we could all be a little more sympathetic to those investigators, for they knew one of the fathers well and most likely knew the children on a personal basis. This added to the horror of the crime, must have caused a lot of trauma for the entire Police Department.

Back to the issue of TH.
When TH admitted to checking with DM about his son's location, I thought it was when the police report was filed by Byers and then Moore? Yet he was the one stalling.. ? Is it also true that TH didn't even talk to the officer that came to the Catfish Island where PH worked to talk about his step son missing?

I also have looked through the case that had been available on the internet. Narrowing search engine times to before the date of May 5th, 1993 and until the trial was over. I found a few news articles that state the boys were last seen going into the RH woods with two MEN. (not teenagers).
I've been lurking a long time here.. sorry this post is so long.. but it still eats at me..

One of the two biggest questions I have and why I am posting here now is that there are all these reports of witnesses seeing the boys who were residing in the area and I forget where, but there was a presentation of the timelines and the different areas that the boys were spotted;last at-6:30... how did all these neighbors who came forward, and who put the boys in the area, and TH and DJ supposedly driving around, did not see them? And how did they see the boys, but not the teenagers who stood out for their style and nature?? (I have a theory on the bicycle and TH, and i can point out common deception techniques used by law enforcement, and could link the Official Police interview that is available for viewing on YouTube, but don't want to clog up the thread with my inquisitions)

Another question (actually I have many) but maybe it was covered by some of those who are more intelligent and familiar with this case than me.. , it was 1993, not 1893.. where is the footage from the Surveillance Cameras from the local businesses??? I may have over looked it?? but I can't imagine that the Truckstop next to the Blue Beacon didn't have video as all businesses do now. I would think that even back then they had video cameras for security.. considering the crime rate, I am surprised the BoJangles didn't have one. (Does anyone believe the police were that sloppy with the mud and blood and the Missing Man seen in BoJangles?) I doubt he exists)

I would just like to know those two things for now.. I really hope that the real killer comes forward and confesses, but since they are such a "proud people", I think this case will remain unsolved. Sometimes life is just cruel. I am sorry for the families of all involved.

Love and Peace

 

[Compassionate Reader]

This case has shaken me to the core of my being. Not only for the victims, but those IMHO that were wrongly accused. I have quoted JusticeSeeker because of the statement that the two in question, TH and DJ were looking for the boys, while playing guitar as DJ stated.. PH said CB watched TV with AH that day, TH didn't see this? Perhaps he did and this was the motive.. also how did they (TH & DJ) know the boys were together? TH Claims he did not see them.

IIRC, TH didn't arrive home (@4:30) until after CB had left (@ 4:00). However, JMB has stated that CB had a crush on AH. Could that have triggered TH's wrath? If I weren't convinced by experts that CB's genital injury were due to animal predation, I could easily see an enraged father (especially one who is rumored to be sexually abusing his daughter) being angry with a male who had a crush on the girl. As to knowing the boys were together, DJ stated in his declaration that "I believe I saw Terry's step-son, Stevie Branch, ride by on his bicycle in the street in front of my house. I also believe I saw two other little boys with Stevie. One of the other boys who went by the front of my house was on a bicycle and the other boy was on a skateboard." (He has since said that it could have been a dream, but this was only after he was implicated in the murders by the Guy/Stewart statement.)

Side note, If I wanted to know where my child was and thought he was with a playmate, I would go to their homes and ask. I wouldn't call the police, which makes me think that JMB did not have involvement. I don't think he would send for the police to look for the children if the murders were in the vicinity he was pointing to.. I do feel the information about the case was leaked to the community and since Mr. Byers had his friends with the force, it is my belief, he started the "rumors" of how heinous the crimes actually were. I know it was like a Circus and JMB was a rodeo clown, and also the WMPD had a long list of errors made regarding judgment. Yet, I wish we could all be a little more sympathetic to those investigators, for they knew one of the fathers well and most likely knew the children on a personal basis. This added to the horror of the crime, must have caused a lot of trauma for the entire Police Department.

JMB was a grieving father. He freely admits now (as does Damien) that his own behavior made him suspicious. However, he always adds that he would do it again if he felt it would help the cause of Justice. I don't think he was responsible for the leaks. I believe the leaks were simply the result of the slipshod work (or lack thereof) by the wmpd.

Back to the issue of TH.
When TH admitted to checking with DM about his son's location, I thought it was when the police report was filed by Byers and then Moore? Yet he was the one stalling.. ? Is it also true that TH didn't even talk to the officer that came to the Catfish Island where PH worked to talk about his step son missing?

This is all correct. Additionally, TH tries to tweak the timeline by claiming that his meeting with JMB and DM occurred earlier than it did.

I also have looked through the case that had been available on the internet. Narrowing search engine times to before the date of May 5th, 1993 and until the trial was over. I found a few news articles that state the boys were last seen going into the RH woods with two MEN. (not teenagers).
I've been lurking a long time here.. sorry this post is so long.. but it still eats at me..

IMO, the most damning thing released by the media was Jessie's "confession" which was released shortly after the arrests. How in the world can those three have a fair and impartial jury with that information in the public domain? And, again, who leaked it? Yes, original reports cited the boys going into the woods with two men. Again, since that didn't fit the State's theory, it was quashed, IMO.

One of the two biggest questions I have and why I am posting here now is that there are all these reports of witnesses seeing the boys who were residing in the area and I forget where, but there was a presentation of the timelines and the different areas that the boys were spotted;last at-6:30... how did all these neighbors who came forward, and who put the boys in the area, and TH and DJ supposedly driving around, did not see them? And how did they see the boys, but not the teenagers who stood out for their style and nature?? (I have a theory on the bicycle and TH, and i can point out common deception techniques used by law enforcement, and could link the Official Police interview that is available for viewing on YouTube, but don't want to clog up the thread with my inquisitions)

The Clark girls didn't come forward until much later (IIRC, 2004). They came forward in response to a "tip line" that was set up asking for information. People question why they didn't come forward in 1993, and their answer is that they didn't know that TH was claiming that he didn't see the boys at all on May 5th. The Clark girls (and their mother, I believe) came forward as soon as they discovered that TH was making the claim of not seeing the boys on the 5th. Prior to that, they had assumed that TH had told the police about seeing the boys.

Another question (actually I have many) but maybe it was covered by some of those who are more intelligent and familiar with this case than me.. , it was 1993, not 1893.. where is the footage from the Surveillance Cameras from the local businesses??? I may have over looked it?? but I can't imagine that the Truckstop next to the Blue Beacon didn't have video as all businesses do now. I would think that even back then they had video cameras for security.. considering the crime rate, I am surprised the BoJangles didn't have one. (Does anyone believe the police were that sloppy with the mud and blood and the Missing Man seen in BoJangles?) I doubt he exists)

I've never heard of surveillance footage, except that shot by the wmpd at the funerals and the roller rink. IMO, there are two explanations as to why none has ever surfaced. The simplest is that it doesn't exist. West Memphis is a rather impoverished area, and it's entirely possible that the businesses couldn't afford such a luxury. The other explanation is less pleasant. It exists and has been suppressed by the wmpd because it doesn't show what they want it to show. I know that's hard for some people to believe, but in a small town, a police department is very powerful, and when it's corrupt (as I believe the wmpd to be), anything is possible.

I would just like to know those two things for now.. I really hope that the real killer comes forward and confesses, but since they are such a "proud people", I think this case will remain unsolved. Sometimes life is just cruel. I am sorry for the families of all involved.

Love and Peace

I, too, hope for a resolution soon. I doubt that the killer will confess unless promised immunity, but I hope that eventually enough incontrovertible evidence against him surfaces that the State of Arkansas has no choice but to reopen the case and conduct a professional and thorough investigation. Right now, patience is the key. I'm confident that the truth will out - eventually!

 

[Angeleyez210]

I also have looked through the case that had been available on the internet. Narrowing search engine times to before the date of May 5th, 1993 and until the trial was over. I found a few news articles that state the boys were last seen going into the RH woods with two MEN. (not teenagers).[emoji47] whoa!!

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Found out more information about surveillance cameras. Walmart used them inside and would have been able to verify Jason at the video games, but they recorded over them after 30 days. So, by the time the attorneys were able to ask for them, they had been erased. That doesn't explain why the wmpd didn't ask for them on May 5, though.:gaah:

 

[Justiceseeker35]

I also have looked through the case that had been available on the internet. Narrowing search engine times to before the date of May 5th, 1993 and until the trial was over. I found a few news articles that state the boys were last seen going into the RH woods with two MEN. (not teenagers).[emoji47] whoa!!

I saw an account that 4 boys were heading into the woods? Could it look like four boys if it was the three and TH from a distance? He was a slender looking man and not very tall if you see pictures of him up against PH. Also..I've read that AH had a crush on CB it was the other way around. CB might have known that Hobb's home was tense and felt protective?? TH by all evidence was a jealous jealous man. Jealous of PH's coworkers attention towards her, jealous of PH attention on SB, didn't want the family to have a phone in the house. I think when he was home the family had to focus on him only. If PH was worried about SB not being home that night and her focus was on him and not on TH then wouldn't that set him off?

 

[Angeleyez210]

Oh crap!

 

[AngelVsion]

Found out more information about surveillance cameras. Walmart used them inside and would have been able to verify Jason at the video games, but they recorded over them after 30 days. So, by the time the attorneys were able to ask for them, they had been erased. That doesn't explain why the wmpd didn't ask for them on May 5, though.:gaah:

OMG I could scream right now.. So the proof of JB innocence was possibly on video at Walmart, but that evidence was never sequestered? How messed up is that??

 

[Cher Lockhomes]

Wow you have all been very busy!!

Just wanted to say how good the forum looks since the decoraters have been in. Very interesting with the surveillance cameras. Usual procedure with the police work, Keystone Cops. The timelines do my head in, so I won't bother looking at them again until I have a free day. I think I've seen three different timelines for PH that don't coincide, and then trying to fit them in with TH's, alone that is very time consuming.

The mosquito thing is something to look into. I was reading that they start biting from 55 degrees F. The temprature that night was not under 59 degrees, so there will have been plenty of activity.

One last interesting thing before I go. I was reading about TH's locked box, and the things that were in it. The necklace with the penny (itty bitty necklace) from 1984 (all boys were born 1984). His teeth of course, and a marble. The marble rang a bell with me, and I rememberd the scene in West of Memphis with David Jacoby. It's about 1 hour 42 min. into the film. Could this marble have something to do with it?

 

[Angeleyez210]

I need to see these docs...the only one I saw was Devils Knot and thats a movie

 

[Graznik]

Found out more information about surveillance cameras. Walmart used them inside and would have been able to verify Jason at the video games, but they recorded over them after 30 days. So, by the time the attorneys were able to ask for them, they had been erased. That doesn't explain why the wmpd didn't ask for them on May 5, though.:gaah:

Wasn't there an almost identical issue with telephone records that could have verified parts of Damien's alibi? They did exist, but no one asked for them until it was too late and they had been erased?!

 

[Cher Lockhomes]

Angeleyez210:

Im starting to just grasp at straws to TH, John Byers, truckers, etc. It's too frustrating to me.

Justiceseeker35:

Gosh I wish someone would just confess. This case is driving me nuts with how crazy all the details are.

AngelVsion:

This case has shaken me to the core of my being. Not only for the victims, but those IMHO that were wrongly accused

Compassionate Reader:

I, too, hope for a resolution soon. I doubt that the killer will confess unless promised immunity, but I hope that eventually enough incontrovertible evidence against him surfaces that the State of Arkansas has no choice but to reopen the case and conduct a professional and thorough investigation. Right now, patience is the key. I'm confident that the truth will out - eventually!

Graznik:

Wasn't there an almost identical issue with telephone records that could have verified parts of Damien's alibi? They did exist, but no one asked for them until it was too late and they had been erased?!

And another one bites the dust!!


I'm not expecting the monster/s to confess. They haven't confessed in over 20 years,they've killed 3 eight year old boys, (how on earth can anyone with a grain of benevolence, harm, let alone KILL three wonderful children) they've seen 3 teenagers live's ruined, I think they are either revelling in the glory of their deeds, or they are so ashamed of what they have done (probably both, in a split personality). If TH is really involved, he is the last person I can see confessing.

When I started reading about the WM3, I tried to keep an open mind and also look at the arguments of the WM3 opposition. The most common thing I read was, "Don't believe the documentaries, there is so much evidence that is not in there". Well, where is this so called evidence ? The more I read, the more the evidence points in other directions. I am now nearly 100 percent sure that the WM3 are innocent. The way they have been setup is a crime. As I read somewhere, "No justice for some, means that justice for everyone is endangered" or something along those lines.

Now that some of the police officers or members of the justice system are retiring, I am hoping for one person, who may have the decency to come forward and shed some light on the whole thing, for the sake of Steven, Christopher, Michael, Jesse, Jason and Damien.

 

[Miranda!]

Erstens, viele Grüße aus England. Welcher Teil von Deutschland sind Sie?

Miranda!:

Mea culpa. Sorry that was a bit of a rookie mistake on my behalf. Thanks for pointing me in
the right direction Miranda, the last thing I want to do in this case is, "misinform the
public". I will chalk Fogleman in as Brent Davis's adjutant, or maybe better, as his
accomplice.

A 'rookie mistake' many of us make! I knew Brent Davis was the DA but as time went on it always seemed to feature Fogelman more. He, Fogelman, was following family traditions, which are VERY strong in that part of the country. He actually studied Physical Education in College and then decided to enter law, as his father grandfather and uncle/s had before - and even great grand-father most probably!!

I think Brent Davis was the 'puppet master' behind the scenes and called all the moves, he even seems to have had some sort of 'hold' over Judge Burnett. I actually feel a bit sorry for Fogelman as he was still pretty wet behind the ears and it was always odd that he oved on to being a judge so much earlier than Davis!

A few other interesting things around Mr Bojangles:
If he was a possible (or maybe even already known) witness, it would be better to let him
disappear. (Maybe the samples were not lost, but the results were)

There is no paper work to show that the samples were ever sent to the labs.

One last thought. TH said he was in the woods with officer Meek. Officer Meek doesn't mention seeing TH. Maybe he was hiding in the bushes at the time, and later he forgot that she couldn't see him.

Thanks for that I needed a good laugh!

If Bojangles man got out of town that night and then followed case in media he would have known that what he saw did not tally with way wmpd were taking the case. IFF he did, in fact, see anything.

Back in those days West Memphis was the 'cross-roads' for drug trafficking with the intersection of the Interstates. So highly likely a lot of rather 'dodgy' people around them parts.... I wish the wmpd had done serious interviews with the staff of the Blue Beacon Truck Wash....

 

[Miranda!]

I am answering multiple posts here as having a 'catch up'!

I have never heard anything about TWH being any sort of 'police informant' ever. However, I am led to believe that JMB did have some sort of contact with the Memphis Police.

Hobbs has a violent past, even shot a man = justification for scrutiny

But that event happend after the murder of the boys. However, he had already assaulted Mildred French and, we are led to believe, his first wife! BTW he was charged with the assault of Jackie Hobbs Jnr., which, I believe, happened in Tenn. Will have to check that - still watching analysis of Football World Cup!!

OMG I could scream right now.. So the proof of JB innocence was possibly on video at Walmart, but that evidence was never sequestered? How messed up is that??

That should have been the defence's job and by then it would have been too late! However, a good Police Investigation would have got hold of any possible cctv footage that showed movement of people in the area - but maybe that is just me with the benefit of hindsight!

One more thing before I bow out
Were the boys submerged down in the ground underneath the water like somebody tried to shove them in waterbed. The reason why im asking is because when I was watching Devil's Knot the detective seemed like he was pulling the boys up from out the earth underneath

They were 'buried under water', as TWH described it! \Pushed down in the mud so that they did not surface. But please,as you have since posted, watch, at the very least PL3 and WofM documentaries!

Was in Memphis for a couple of years. Can safely say that race relations where, well I'll say different there. Very nice people and for the most part all races got along but all were, I guess for lack of a better word, very up front about various races.

Ahhh! But Memphis is a big city whilst West Memphis is a small poor town!

 

[Angeleyez210]

Get the tapes...we're all assuming this case was on the up and up in the first place. What would WMPD gain by a cover up.
Cant get dna off the bikes or shoes right? Who woulld be so slick to know you had push the kids down so they wouldn't come up for a while and toss the bikes.
usually a killer would just toss them in right

 

[Miranda!]

Get the tapes...we're all assuming this case was on the up and up in the first place. What would WMPD gain by a cover up.

We should all be able to assume that the relevent agencies would do a proper investigation into a triple murder of 8 year old kids. In this case it did not happen. The wmpd were already under the microscope for their role in the CCDTF and possible abuse of 'evidence' and financial iregularities. They declined the offer of the help of the State Troopers and were not too inclined to fully utilise the talents and resources of the FBI. When you consider this 'reluctance' along with their lack of experience in a case like this, it raises a lot of flags. For starters at shift change the incoming shift were not informed of the missing kids and Search and Rescue were not called in until the next day - despite JMB's efforts to get them involved sooner.

To me, it seems that the wmpd were not so much covering up this particular case but, rather, possible ramifications that could risk exposure of other questionable acts or behaviours. Of this I am now convinced! :moo:

Cant get dna off the bikes or shoes right? Who woulld be so slick to know you had push the kids down so they wouldn't come up for a while and toss the bikes.
usually a killer would just toss them in right

Firstly, touch DNA is now a recoognised possibility, but I am sure small town forensic departments, back in '93, were not even aware of the potential scientific breakthroughs on the horizon. The wmpd were also clueless about fully protecting items held as evidence. Look at how they treated items recovered from the ditch; how they failed to bag and tag articles of clothing and shoes for sending directly to labs! Hell, they even dried out things at the station and photographed them draped over upholstered furniture! No sterile surfaces in the wmpd!! They did not even have proper evidence bags with them the following day, when it was increasingly likely that there could be a negative result in searching for the kids. Did they really expect to find them sleeping under a bush?

Anyone not wanting the bodies to be spotted straight away, or who wanted it to be feasible that they were not spotted straight away, would have had the basic common sense of trying to 'weigh' the bodies down. NO readily available rocks or bricks, so resorting to suction power of mud at the bottom was an obvious method. Nothing slick or sophisticated about that at all. Many people have, at some point in their lives, nearly lost a shoe or wellington when trying to walk in saturated mud!

Edited to add that the bikes were tossed into deeper waters so as not to act as a signpost as to where the bodies might be. This increases the liklihood of the killer being someone who knew the local layout!



BTW Love the new clean looking layout! A spell checker would have been a useful addition though! :clap:

 

[Justiceseeker35]

So I watched west of memphis yesterday and I gotta say some of the scenes TH looks scared. When he's in the court room, when they find the bodies and he lights a cigarette by the wheel of the car. Sometimes I think he looks real scared he'll be found out. And unfortunately I don't see a confession happening any time soon. Maybe a death bed confession because you gotta think if DE got death row...he would for sure.

 

[Steely Dan]

OMG I could scream right now.. So the proof of JB innocence was possibly on video at Walmart, but that evidence was never sequestered? How messed up is that??

You have to remember that it appears the police didn't want the evidence to fit the crime. They wanted evidence to fit the guys they wanted to convict. JMO

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Wow you have all been very busy!!

Just wanted to say how good the forum looks since the decoraters have been in. Very interesting with the surveillance cameras. Usual procedure with the police work, Keystone Cops. The timelines do my head in, so I won't bother looking at them again until I have a free day. I think I've seen three different timelines for PH that don't coincide, and then trying to fit them in with TH's, alone that is very time consuming.

The mosquito thing is something to look into. I was reading that they start biting from 55 degrees F. The temprature that night was not under 59 degrees, so there will have been plenty of activity.

One last interesting thing before I go. I was reading about TH's locked box, and the things that were in it. The necklace with the penny (itty bitty necklace) from 1984 (all boys were born 1984). His teeth of course, and a marble. The marble rang a bell with me, and I rememberd the scene in West of Memphis with David Jacoby. It's about 1 hour 42 min. into the film. Could this marble have something to do with it?

Ok so about the marble! I saw that too where DJ mentioned TH yelled at SB for throwing marbles against a wall or something to that effect and he told SB repeatedly he was going to whup him if he didn't quit. So DJ showed SB how he played with marbles to calm TH down. DJ said he was once the kid with the step father who was hard on him. (I wish I had the quote but that's what I took away)

 

[Userid]

I also have looked through the case that had been available on the internet. Narrowing search engine times to before the date of May 5th, 1993 and until the trial was over. I found a few news articles that state the boys were last seen going into the RH woods with two MEN. (not teenagers).[emoji47] whoa!!

The following is from jivepuppi, http://www.jivepuppi.com/jivepuppi_last_seen.html:

Ben Crafton, 15 years old, 707 Wilson, stated he saw Branch and Moore on bikes Wed - 6:00 pm going toward Goodwyn - Kim Williams was with them. Like Kim Williams he did not mention Chris Byers being with them.

Kim Williams, said she saw Michael Moore and Steve Branch (but not Chris Byers) go into the Robin Hood Woods between 5:30 and 6:00 pm. Their bikes were left along Goodwin. She also said that she saw three older boys, two black and one white, later come out of Robin Hood. This is in agreement with Dawn Moore's statement.

On a memo regarding her statement, the police give alternative theories:

"Unknown who Kim saw. Has been mentioned that during cult activity some members blacken their faces. Also note victims had black boys that they also played with." [Kim Williams, undated note]

This would suggest that the police considered the possibility that Kim (Williams; typo by writer on original site) and Dawn Moore saw the defendants wearing black face and mistook them for being black.

This was always the most intriguing sighting to me, but it was made by 2 girls even younger than the boys themselves.....so can it really be trusted? Paradoxically, can it be trusted even more (in that the girls would have no reason to lie)?