Viable suspect: Terry Hobbs #1

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Yes it sure is true that everyone on this site notices something that others may not have and either sheds new light on information or brings new perspectives. I learn something every day on this site. By the way I don't understand what IIRC means. Would someone explain that to me when they have a minute and thanks so much!
 
I just wish I knew what to do to force the State of Arkansas to investigate TH. AFAIK (as far as I know), to this day the State hasn't investigated TH. The only reason they interviewed him was because of the mtDNA that the defense found which kind of forced their hand. I guess the only thing that will make them get off of their duffs is public pressure! Hopefully, Arkansans will keep the pressure on, especially with the midterms coming up!

BTW, for those outside the US, the midterms refer to our midterm elections coming up in November (called "midterms" because they come in the middle of the current presidential term).
 
I agree that TH definitely *should be* investigated properly for this crime - he, and several other people to boot.

But seriously - TH protecting his 16 yo from an older guy who lied about his age.. this is somehow an indication of TH's guilt? I can't get my head around that, sorry. I think that's realistically a pretty normal thing for any parent to do.

Don't get me wrong, I see TH as a great suspect (is why I made this thread in the first place, after all ;) ) but .. yeah. That's not 'suspicious' behaviour IMO.

Unless we can establish that TH ran off *every boyfriend* Amanda ever had. Now, that I would find truly odd and possibly significant. So did he? Are there any references to other bf's where this did or did not happen?

What I find far more disturbing is an 8yo boy having a serious crush on a 4yo little girl. No 8yo boy I have ever met has wanted a 4yo as as his 'girlfriend' and wanted to kiss her etc. The boys my daughter went to school with were all 'girls are icky' at that age, or just starting to like girls their own age a little bit (and showed it by being mean to 'em, usually!). Is it just me? Thinking something was weird there? If that was my 4yo, I'd be concerned!
 
Ok, just riffing off my last post.. you know, I don't disagree that Hobbs well could have been molesting his daughter, I'm not 100% convinced there, but I surely cannot say I don't think it's possible.

But here we can see very plainly that Hobbs would resort to violence to protect his child (for whatever reason) and we can also see that he was not adverse to extreme and OTT bouts of rage (shooting Jackie, etc etc etc) - and for goodness' sake I am not 'victim blaming' or 'excusing Hobbs' in any way, just so we're clear on that --- but the thought has crossed my mind more than once that a man like Hobbs, violent and maybe high or drunk to boot, possessive of his daughter maybe, MIGHT attack and kill if he walked in on (or heard report of) a kid doing something inappropriate to his little girl.

We know Chris had this crush thing going on, we know others had seen him acting in sexualised ways at 8yo, we know that his parents thought he'd been molested -- my mind doesn't really want to go there, but to be perfectly honest, I would not keel over of shock if it transpired that there was some 'playing doctor' going on, to whatever degree. Perhaps not a horrible, icky way, but enough to make a violent man with a hair trigger temper very, very angry.

Now, I can surely see a man like Hobbs going off the deep end over something like that. Hunting the boy down. Killing him. Eliminating witnesses.

It's a nasty idea, but I can't not include it as a potential scenario, as there IS indications it's at least possible.
 
In my opinion the depth of depravity in TH's house will never be known. It will never be understood completely as how do you comprehend evil doings as we are not "wired" that way. From the shocking information gathered about TH, I feel it is only scratching the surface. What I do believe is that we are dealing with a monster here. JMO
 
In my worst imaginings, here's what I fear could have happened. TH, JKM and someone (or several someones) in the wmpd have a little pedo ring going on. At first, TH offers his son (and possibly daughter) for their amusement and pleasure. Then, when they begin growing tired of the "same ol'-same ol'," TH offers to "persuade" SB's friends (CB and MM) to "spice things up a bit." SB doesn't like to see his friends being used. (It's bad enough that he has to put up with it, but his friends are something else.) So, on May 5, 1993, at school, he tells MM and possibly CB that he's planning to run away. The rest I think you can imagine.

This scenario explains a lot. It explains all the "I love yous" to PH on the way home. It explains JKM's intimate knowledge of the situation. If CB and MM had already been abused, it explains CB's crush on AH, too. There's also a report somewhere (may be in the Pasdar deposition) I believe from one of PH's sisters that SB had said that TH made him "do things" to AH, too. (I know, sick!) It explains how one man could control three eight-year-old boys. It gives a further motive for the killing (SB may have threatened to tell.) Just some random thoughts.
 
That scenario provides answers to the depth of depravity that was going on. Linking JKM to TH as you did makes the most sense as every time I read JKM's interview I am astonished as to how much he knew of the crime and was virtually explaining why and how it was done. I didn't know about some of what you wrote, especially all of the I love you's to PH. You have certainly tied everything together. Thank you for all of this. You are right of course we can "fear" what happened as we can't understand how evil-thinking people are capable of this. JMO
 
Ausgirl wrote:

But seriously - TH protecting his 16 yo from an older guy who lied about his age.. this is somehow an indication of TH's guilt? I can't get my head around that, sorry. I think that's realistically a pretty normal thing for any parent to do.
Click to expand...

What I find far more disturbing is an 8yo boy having a serious crush on a 4yo little girl.
Click to expand...

In a normal situation, I would agree with you. I would perhaps try to resolve the situation by talking, and not with physical force of any kind. On the other hand you’ve rather took this situation out of context. I was talking about the control TH has over Amanda. I was talking about this situation in the context of TH’s incestuous relationship, and how this would have a bearing on CB. Some Fathers control their abused daughters till death. I read a story about a victim who had grown up, married and had children of her own. Almost on his death bed, her father rang her up after 30yrs, and asked her to come and see him before he died. When she got there, he wanted her to perform oral sex with him for the last time. This story can be read in the book:

The Invisible Wound: A New Approach to Healing Childhood Sexual Abuse by Wayne Kritsberg

As far as the relationship between an eight year old boy and a four year old girl go, I don’t think there is anything strange there. In the age group between 3 and 9 year olds, I’ve seen all sorts of constellations. I’ve seen that kids of this age are quite flexible in their relationships and manners, boys play with dolls, girls play with cars, everything is possible. When they get to the age of 9 to 10, that is when their socialisation really starts setting in. Of course in adverse situations, an eight year old could be sexualized, but in this situation it’s irrelevant, because CB was a threat anyway.

We’re looking for someone capable of beating 3 eight year old boys to death, whether impulsively or premeditated.

The person who is capable of doing this is not a person we would regard as being „normal“.

The person who did this would most certainly have a severe personality disorder, possibly multiple personality disorders.

Is it normal to sexually/physically abuse children?

No of course it’s not. A person who is capable of serious sexual/physical abuse against children has a very serious mental disorder.

Sexual/Physical abuse of children is not a mental/personality disorder, it is a symptom of a severe personality disorder.

A paedophile is not just a paedophile, he is probably dissociative, or schizoid, paranoid, histrionic, feels inadequate or inferior, the list is long.

Would you say JKM is just a paedophile, otherwise he is quite normal? Read his full statement.

After reading/hearing the first allegations of sexual/physical abuse against TH, I was sensitized towards the rest of his social behaviour. This is particularly visible in the videos of the Pasdar depositions.

One thing that worries me a lot about TH, is the relative relationship between what perceivably, hurts him, and the punishment he dishes out for it.

Mildred F. knocked at his door and complained. TH broke into her house, sexually assaulted her, and where was it to end? Would he have gone further? Would he have even killed her?
Is that the appropriate way to punish someone for complaining? Mildred F. was an „intruder“

TH did not leave his home and get away when he new that the Hicks were coming. What did he do? He armed himself with a gun, and waited for them. If he had pulled the gun out before JH jr. had attacked him, you could have called it self defense. How was this going to end? At worst with a multiple of deaths. Not only was he punishing the Hicks, in this case he was the aggressor. In the end he declared himself as the victim. The Hicks were „intruders“

PH was separating from him. What did he do? Locked Stevie's belongings in the car boot so that she couldn’t take them., cut up her clothes with a knife or box cutter?

Jesse the „Mexican“ kissed PH in „TH’s“ house. TH beat him up in the kitchen. Is that appropriate? Jesse was an „intruder“ and a „rival“

Stevie was an „intruder“ and a „rival“ in Th’s relationship to PH.
Chris B. was an „intruder“ and a „rival“ in Th’s relationship to Amanda.
Michael M. was just in the way.



TH is not only a viable suspect, IMO he is the probable suspect.
 
Cher Lockhomes said:
Ausgirl wrote:





In a normal situation, I would agree with you. I would perhaps try to resolve the situation by talking, and not with physical force of any kind. On the other hand you’ve rather took this situation out of context. I was talking about the control TH has over Amanda. I was talking about this situation in the context of TH’s incestuous relationship, and how this would have a bearing on CB. Some Fathers control their abused daughters till death. I read a story about a victim who had grown up, married and had children of her own. Almost on his death bed, her father rang her up after 30yrs, and asked her to come and see him before he died. When she got there, he wanted her to perform oral sex with him for the last time. This story can be read in the book:

The Invisible Wound: A New Approach to Healing Childhood Sexual Abuse by Wayne Kritsberg

As far as the relationship between an eight year old boy and a four year old girl go, I don’t think there is anything strange there. In the age group between 3 and 9 year olds, I’ve seen all sorts of constellations. I’ve seen that kids of this age are quite flexible in their relationships and manners, boys play with dolls, girls play with cars, everything is possible. When they get to the age of 9 to 10, that is when their socialisation really starts setting in. Of course in adverse situations, an eight year old could be sexualized, but in this situation it’s irrelevant, because CB was a threat anyway.

We’re looking for someone capable of beating 3 eight year old boys to death, whether impulsively or premeditated.

The person who is capable of doing this is not a person we would regard as being „normal“.

The person who did this would most certainly have a severe personality disorder, possibly multiple personality disorders.

Is it normal to sexually/physically abuse children?

No of course it’s not. A person who is capable of serious sexual/physical abuse against children has a very serious mental disorder.

Sexual/Physical abuse of children is not a mental/personality disorder, it is a symptom of a severe personality disorder.

A paedophile is not just a paedophile, he is probably dissociative, or schizoid, paranoid, histrionic, feels inadequate or inferior, the list is long.

Would you say JKM is just a paedophile, otherwise he is quite normal? Read his full statement.

After reading/hearing the first allegations of sexual/physical abuse against TH, I was sensitized towards the rest of his social behaviour. This is particularly visible in the videos of the Pasdar depositions.

One thing that worries me a lot about TH, is the relative relationship between what perceivably, hurts him, and the punishment he dishes out for it.

Mildred F. knocked at his door and complained. TH broke into her house, sexually assaulted her, and where was it to end? Would he have gone further? Would he have even killed her?
Is that the appropriate way to punish someone for complaining? Mildred F. was an „intruder“

TH did not leave his home and get away when he new that the Hicks were coming. What did he do? He armed himself with a gun, and waited for them. If he had pulled the gun out before JH jr. had attacked him, you could have called it self defense. How was this going to end? At worst with a multiple of deaths. Not only was he punishing the Hicks, in this case he was the aggressor. In the end he declared himself as the victim. The Hicks were „intruders“

PH was separating from him. What did he do? Locked Stevie's belongings in the car boot so that she couldn’t take them., cut up her clothes with a knife or box cutter?

Jesse the „Mexican“ kissed PH in „TH’s“ house. TH beat him up in the kitchen. Is that appropriate? Jesse was an „intruder“ and a „rival“

Stevie was an „intruder“ and a „rival“ in Th’s relationship to PH.
Chris B. was an „intruder“ and a „rival“ in Th’s relationship to Amanda.
Michael M. was just in the way.



TH is not only a viable suspect, IMO he is the probable suspect.
Click to expand...

That's a very well thought out behavioral analysis
it's a simple pattern to a complex personality disorder

Intruder, Stressor, Aggression

any of those acts of aggression on the intruder could have ended up fatal. And I believe he could have and would have killed all of those "intruders". Males, females, children. Anything that would have upset his world, would have ousted his abnormal behavior. You have to wonder if it was TH, why has he not become violent and aggressive since then? What's he been doing since the shooting of the brother in law?
 
I just read S.N.'s affidavit wherein she swore that TH told her that he found the bodies "buried in water" that day but did not want to tell P.H. when he went to pick her up. I hadn't read that before. S.N. had only been dating T.H. for four months but swore he told her that more than once. Very revealing. JMO
 
zencompass said:
I just read S.N.'s affidavit wherein she swore that TH told her that he found the bodies "buried in water" that day but did not want to tell P.H. when he went to pick her up. I hadn't read that before. S.N. had only been dating T.H. for four months but swore he told her that more than once. Very revealing. JMO
Click to expand...

how odd, it was like a round about confession. So I just read a quote that TH feels a lot of "shame" over the death of SB. Msg board readers are actually creeped out by his use of the word shame. So here's a wild thought. It was mentioned about about multiple personalities. The lit on that is the true diagnosis is extremely rare. But what if its like the normal human condition where something just pops out of your mouth or you do something without thinking and regret it tremendously afterward. It could go back to impulse control. Something comes over TH that night where he commits the murders and afterward is disassociated from it? Doesn't quite remember committing the acts is in denial that he did them? Someone who has a long history of domestic abuse likely has to have a well practiced ability to deny, cover up, self justify actions and even lie to themselves.
 
Justiceseeker35 said:
how odd, it was like a round about confession. So I just read a quote that TH feels a lot of "shame" over the death of SB. Msg board readers are actually creeped out by his use of the word shame. So here's a wild thought. It was mentioned about about multiple personalities. The lit on that is the true diagnosis is extremely rare. But what if its like the normal human condition where something just pops out of your mouth or you do something without thinking and regret it tremendously afterward. It could go back to impulse control. Something comes over TH that night where he commits the murders and afterward is disassociated from it? Doesn't quite remember committing the acts is in denial that he did them? Someone who has a long history of domestic abuse likely has to have a well practiced ability to deny, cover up, self justify actions and even lie to themselves.
Click to expand...

Either that or he's a psychopath (or sociopath, if you prefer). The literature on that diagnosis indicates a lack of remorse, too!
 
Today I thought about David Milgaard who was the innocent Canadian who was convicted of murdering a nurse years ago based on sketchy forensics and false testimonies. Reminds me so much of what happened to Damien, Jason and Jessie. It took years of pressuring government and the law until finally the truth came out and the true murderer was convicted. It was too easy for the police to just wrap up this case and overlook other evidence that showed David's innocence just like it was so easy for the West Memphis police to incriminate the wrong people. David's mother, Joyce Milgaard is a true hero in always believing in her son's innocence and pushing for the truth. Reminds me of Compassionate Reader, CherLockhomes, Hez, JusticeSeeker35 and all of the other websleuths who continue to dig for the truth and justice. Thank you.
 
I just find eerie similarities with both cases of wrongful convictions -David Milgaard's and the WM3.

PH's statement that she believed her husband TH was guilty was not taken seriously. With David Milgaard's case, in 1980 the real killer's wife notified police that she believed her husband, Larry Fisher was the one who raped and murdered the nurse, Gail Miller. Police did not follow up on this. She was right - her husband did commit the murder.

David Milgaard was 17 when he went to jail for a crime he did not commit and was imprisoned for 23 years! Even though Larry Fisher had a criminal record of rape he was never a suspect. There have been allegations from family members of TH accusing him of being a paedophile. Not taken seriously by the West Memphis police.

David Milgaard's friends testified to David's innocence until they were thrown into a Saskatoon jail for 2 days to think about it and ended up swearing to statements that David confessed to them that he did it. The police put such pressure on them that they agreed to whatever the police said happened. They were afraid and just wanted away from the police and the whole situation. Similar to the pressure put on Jessie. Uncanny predicament with the same results. Milgaard's friends later recanted everything but by then the damage was done. Jessie's confessions were later recanted. He was afraid and just wanted away from the police and the whole situation.

It wasn't until 1997 when Larry Fisher was convicted and David Milgaard set free.

When will T.H. finally and properly be looked at as a prime suspect by the West Memphis police?

My point is that sometimes many years have to pass until the truth comes out. It is so unfortunate but I believe this is the case with the WM3. I believe there is more evidence pointing to TH which has not come to light yet. The neighbours' statements that placed TH at 6:30 p.m combined with PH's testimony (recanted? I just think of Battered Women's Syndrome and shudder) - none of this was considered by the W.M. police as they had it "wrapped up" just like the police with David Milgaard's case. Witnesses can and do come forward years and years later. It happens. Every day we learn of wrongful cases but some people stubbornly believe this does not happen. It happens every day and most certainly happened in West Memphis. Justice will prevail - eventually. JMO
 
I think also of Lindy Chamberlain, the Australian woman who served multiple years at hard labor and had a baby in prison - all because (IMO) the authorities didn't want Ayers Rock to get a bad reputation. So, they ignored the mother's insistence that a dingo took her baby away and relied instead on faulty forensics and religious prejudice (plus the fact that Lindy didn't act like they thought she should during the trial). So much injustice in this world! Thank goodness Lindy was finally exonerated - but it took years!
 
Wow! There has been some real interesting things posted in this thread, indeed.

Some of the stuff about TH is just disturbing beyond belief. It does make sense, but it's hard to wrap your head around how someone could be that sick (that is, if there's any grain of thruth to the theories posted here).

I have to agree with Ausgirl regarding TH running off AH's boyfriend, as well as an eight year old having a crush on a four year old.
Unless it can be proven that TH did this to near enough every other boyfriend, I wouldn't say that this is anything beyond fairly average behaviour from a parent (although the violent part is not, but we're talking about a violent person here). Not condoning it in any way though.
Regarding the crush, when I was a child we did play in a mixed age group, but the age span was about two years or so not four. At eight years old, a child four years younger than me would have been considered a baby and would not have been included in our "group", or it would have been in the sense that we "looked after" that child (like "take your brother with you, or you're not going anywhere"). This crush has made me react in the past.
This is just my personal experience though, and it might be clouded by the difference I see in eight and four year olds as an adult. That's not to say that there was anything wrong with it, it just always struck me as somewhat odd.

I too struggle to fathom how some people just refuse to believe that sometimes humans, law enforcement included, get things wrong. Horribly wrong. People in general can and will lie for no obvious reason at all, and then proceed to cover it up - especially if it's made easy for them do so. Things do not always happen for a reason, and there can be smoke without fire.
 
I saw that bite mark theory presented while snooping around on another forum (was it the Blackboard? I've never been a member of any other forum apart from this one, so can't recall), and while it is VERY convincing I'm still not convinced that mark can't be attributed to an animal. I'm sure I've seen a similar mark produced by a turtle, although Google doesn't seem to agree with me on this one.
Furthermore, it seems a little strange for there to just be a random human bite mark like that. In such an odd area as well.

I'm gonna watch the full video when I have a little bit more time on my hands. Regardless of my scepticism, it is good. Really good. And it will most likely answer most, if not all, questions.
 
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