Viable suspect: Terry Hobbs #1

[Cher Lockhomes]

TH had his teeth removed in the mid nineties. (Jivepuppi TH page, Pasdar Deposition).
There were never any questions concerning the marble, or itty bitty necklace made. (At least I have not come across them).
However in the Police interview 2007, TH was asked if he smoked Marlburrows. (Because there was a marlboro box on the photo of the dentures used to put the partials into scale). I'm just pointing this out to show the extent of the meaninglessness of this police interview. The answer was even more meaningless, "I did then". (when?).

The photo of TH with the missing tooth was taken in the courtroom I believe, after the murders. It will be a bit more difficult to find a photo from before the murders, because he had the most publicity afterwards. I will keep my eyes open. I have attached two that I found, I haven't made an attachment here before, so I don't know if they will be any good. I have also attached a photo of the partials from a YT video which gives a good impression of them.

 

[Cher Lockhomes]

I just wanted to throw a thought out there that it could have been CB's necklace he had on him as a good luck charm the day of the murders and that's why it was hidden in a lock box with partial. PH did not ID the necklace as SB and MM's family did not ID the necklace as his but CB's mom was deceased by the time the necklace was found, JMB the step Dad might not have known of its existence.

I looked at "Pandoras Box" a while back in this thread, it came to a bit of a dead end too. I didn't think about Melissa being dead, that's a good point. At the time I was also thinking about the Moore's. Now considering that they shut up shop completeley, I was wondering if they would possibly ignore the necklace if it belonged to their son, so as not to open closed wounds. They are so vehement in keeping the story buried, it would not surprise me. It's understandable in a way, a lot of people work like this, but my dear, it's going to be a big shock for them if THe real perp. comes to light. I too am quite convinced that the marble and the necklace have a story. The knife was took off Stevie as we know, maybe the marble and the necklace too. (I know I'm in danger of getting my bottom smacked for this, but I'm gonna say it anyway, Stevie's bike was stolen fom the carport prior to the murders, who knows, that might have ended up in "Pandoras Box" too, if the box had been big enough.

 

[grace60]

Thanks for the pic of him sitting on the sofa. That one shows his lower teeth.

 

[Ausgirl]

If the mark is indeed a bite-mark, it seems whoever made it had some missing lower teeth? The lower impression is pretty gappy, while the top one seems complete.

There's pics with a ruler in place for sizing.. So. I wonder if the pics were sent to a forensic dentist (someone nowhere near West Memphis) whether that person would be able to make a model of the teeth that made the mark.

We don't, iirc, have an X-Y measurement as described here: http://forensic-science-fall-2010.wikispaces.com/Bite+Mark+Identification

But maybe there' enough for some clear information re missing teeth, crooked teeth..idk what could be extrapolated from the pictures.. Anyway. Such a huge amount of money has been raised for the WM3, would it be difficult to raise money for the victims? Ie, enough to pay the fee for an experienced dentist trained in forensic reconstruction, to have a good hard look at these marks.

Even establishing that those --are-- 100% irrefutable human bite marks would be a start!!! And hiring a dentist is something that can actively done, and might even be useful. I'm happy to throw what I can at such a project.

 

[grace60]

If the mark is indeed a bite-mark, it seems whoever made it had some missing lower teeth? The lower impression is pretty gappy, while the top one seems complete.

There's pics with a ruler in place for sizing.. So. I wonder if the pics were sent to a forensic dentist (someone nowhere near West Memphis) whether that person would be able to make a model of the teeth that made the mark.

We don't, iirc, have an X-Y measurement as described here: http://forensic-science-fall-2010.wikispaces.com/Bite+Mark+Identification

But maybe there' enough for some clear information re missing teeth, crooked teeth..idk what could be extrapolated from the pictures.. Anyway. Such a huge amount of money has been raised for the WM3, would it be difficult to raise money for the victims? Ie, enough to pay the fee for an experienced dentist trained in forensic reconstruction, to have a good hard look at these marks.

Even establishing that those --are-- 100% irrefutable human bite marks would be a start!!! And hiring a dentist is something that can actively done, and might even be useful. I'm happy to throw what I can at such a project.

BBM Thanks to cher for the great pic showing his upper and lower teeth around the time of the murder I blew that pic up on my comp. I too was interested in his lower teeth. Here is the link Cher posted of the pic http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63270&d=1415725693 In case the link dosent work it's post # 561 and the first link posted. His upper right central (#8) is wider, longer and whiter than the other teeth on top. Then look at the lower tooth below the whiter tooth. It's a little shorter. When you bite into something you bite with you front teeth end to end. If there is a very small space between any teeth that meet end to end a lighter mark would be left or no mark at all. Since he had at least one lower anterior that was shorter I could easily see when he bit he bit the eyebrow bone the shorter lower one would not have much of a mark if any. Also the top marks are complete but the only tooth that broke the skin was a natural tooth. The lower teeth had to bite into a arch that went up. If you blow up the bite mark video you can see how the tissue was puntured upper and lower on the same side. I hope this helps

 

[Ausgirl]

Sorry, I meant to add to the above post: a truly independent, forensically trained dental expert.. hired *not to prove a particular point* but simply for his/her unbiased opinion on a/ whether it's a human bitemark, and b/ whether it matches the plate. Or even if he/she agrees with Mark Cowart's analysis.

Experts hired to proved a point tend to attempt to do exactly that, is what I mean. A person hired to simply give an opinion - whatever that might be - achieves two things: a/ avoids any kind of bias, conscious or unconscious, to please the hirer, and b/; negates the counter-argument that paid witnesses/professionals are naturally going to skew things on the side of the party hiring them. If what we ask for is a straight opinion, and the professional has unquestionable credentials, then it's a LOT harder to cry "piffle!" isn't it. And also, another expert opinion could ofc add to evidence, one way or another.

I hope this helps

Yes, thank you.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

So I read the pasdar deposition and omg according to the QA session..TH starts writing in a journal on may 5th 1993. That's either one heck of a coincidence (oh I'll just start a journal on the day my step son and his best friends are missing and killed) or it all fits in with the profile of someone who wants to relive the crime and the days surrounding it. Bear in mind they were not found dead until the morning of the 6th and what innocent person stops in the middle of searching in the woods for their kids to just oh ..you know.. start writing in his new journal. At the time of the depo it was a 4 volume journal.

 

[Miranda!]

When I had a traumatic event in my life I started keeping notes. But I am a writer and also was aware that I might forget little things plus it was a way of focusing in a more detatched way. I then completely forgot about it and I only found it some 19 / 20 years later in the box where I had archived all the stuff relating to that event. I don't, I am afraid, see Hobbs as a 'writing' person!

@ Ausgirl The expert in forensic odontology has seen the work that 'our dentist' has done and has agreed that it is not beyond possibility that the wound is a bite mark made, in part, with the upper partial that was Hobbs' own. It is only possible that a comparison with photos of the wound can be made. I doubt that exhuming the body would yield any more information now. This forensic odontologist was the espert witness on behalf of the state. The wording he used is legal speak for 'it looks like it fits perfectly' but not stating it as definitively!

It is just a great pity that the EDT did not use the partial to try to link it to the wound. They slipped up there, in my view!

Any reasonable police department and DA's office, given the accumulation of further evidence would already have decided to re-open, if only to shut us all up for once and for all, by proving that they were right all along! They have three guilty verdicts on record and all the documentaries and attendant publicity has failed to prod them thus far, so I doubt any more would do the job. At least not until there are new people in position who could do something! But it seems that some in authority do not ever want to have to admit to making a mistake!

 

[Justiceseeker35]

When I had a traumatic event in my life I started keeping notes. But I am a writer and also was aware that I might forget little things plus it was a way of focusing in a more detatched way. I then completely forgot about it and I only found it some 19 / 20 years later in the box where I had archived all the stuff relating to that event. I don't, I am afraid, see Hobbs as a 'writing' person!

@ Ausgirl The expert in forensic odontology has seen the work that 'our dentist' has done and has agreed that it is not beyond possibility that the wound is a bite mark made, in part, with the upper partial that was Hobbs' own. It is only possible that a comparison with photos of the wound can be made. I doubt that exhuming the body would yield any more information now. This forensic odontologist was the espert witness on behalf of the state. The wording he used is legal speak for 'it looks like it fits perfectly' but not stating it as definitively!

It is just a great pity that the EDT did not use the partial to try to link it to the wound. They slipped up there, in my view!

Any reasonable police department and DA's office, given the accumulation of further evidence would already have decided to re-open, if only to shut us all up for once and for all, by proving that they were right all along! They have three guilty verdicts on record and all the documentaries and attendant publicity has failed to prod them thus far, so I doubt any more would do the job. At least not until there are new people in position who could do something! But it seems that some in authority do not ever want to have to admit to making a mistake!

So I spent a good deal of time yesterday reading the Pasdar depos, and statements from PH and her family regarding TH. I got a good sense of who he was at the time of the murders. Some of things said were terrible. And he himself portrayed himself in a terrible light in his own depos. Basically about the journals. He claimed he wanted to get a "story" down on paper not a truthful story mind you but just a story in which he at times contradicts his own accounts of what happened. I believe he is a compulsive lair and tries to manipulate to his version of truth in every Q&A that comes up as well as any interpersonal relationships. He opened himself up to questions about the 1993 events yet he will do nothing to negate any doubts about his involvement. Claims he has nothing to proove. Denied the investigators access to his dna, finger prints, dental records, or won't take a polygraph. Won't let the investigators at the depos proove his innocence in his own slander lawsuit. PH's family members did claim one of the first things he did the morning of the 6th was wash everything in SB's room including bedding and drapes (why did he do that and wouldn't the family notice blood all over the room?). And he was aloof with the family in fact was spending time in other rooms away from her family and wouldn't comfort PH. But yet would "turn it on" for cameras give interviews freely that sort of thing. I have to wonder if the journal was about financial gain as well.

 

[Ausgirl]

When I had a traumatic event in my life I started keeping notes. But I am a writer and also was aware that I might forget little things plus it was a way of focusing in a more detatched way. I then completely forgot about it and I only found it some 19 / 20 years later in the box where I had archived all the stuff relating to that event. I don't, I am afraid, see Hobbs as a 'writing' person!

@ Ausgirl The expert in forensic odontology has seen the work that 'our dentist' has done and has agreed that it is not beyond possibility that the wound is a bite mark made, in part, with the upper partial that was Hobbs' own. It is only possible that a comparison with photos of the wound can be made. I doubt that exhuming the body would yield any more information now. This forensic odontologist was the espert witness on behalf of the state. The wording he used is legal speak for 'it looks like it fits perfectly' but not stating it as definitively!

It is just a great pity that the EDT did not use the partial to try to link it to the wound. They slipped up there, in my view!

Any reasonable police department and DA's office, given the accumulation of further evidence would already have decided to re-open, if only to shut us all up for once and for all, by proving that they were right all along! They have three guilty verdicts on record and all the documentaries and attendant publicity has failed to prod them thus far, so I doubt any more would do the job. At least not until there are new people in position who could do something! But it seems that some in authority do not ever want to have to admit to making a mistake!

I don't see journal keeping as any kind of indication of guilt. Unless, ofc, there's a confession in that journal somewhere.

I'm a writer, also. I know a lot of writers. Some of them .. well, one's a former boot-boy (skinhead, w/e) with a nasty streak, a criminal record and a drinking problem, who can't say boo with adding a cussword to it, before and after. He gets into pub fights. He doesn't like cats, and the majority of women (I am on the exception list, thank all that's good). Or the majority of men. He's an ornery, misanthropic SOB and you would not pick him at three paces for somebody who would ever pick up a pen to write anything but a robbery note. He comes across as someone who'd more likely employ it as a shiv. But really, he's an accomplished, published author (and actually, a good hearted and inspirational man, just do not tell him I ever said so out loud..). You might even know his work if I pointed at it. So I cannot subscribe to not imagining *anyone* can keep a journal, or desire to. You just can never tell. And I don't see it as a suspicious act. I just do not.

As to the rest - gotta agree with you 100%, though I said squat about exhumation (lawd, I can't even think it, pet bugaboo cringe material, that) I don't think it'd be any help now either. 100%, especially on the bolded part. It makes me nauseous that this case is so tied up that nobody's ever going to be at risk of have embarrassingly crappy work and maybe even several layers and levels of corruption exposed. Oh yeah, or ever actually solve the case. It is sickening, and frustrating - and kind of frightening, too. I have seen similar things in cases here, and I have seen attempts to tie things up to hide corruption and mistakes and abuse of the law, and FAIL - with federal level consequences - so I know it happens, and it happens everywhere. And it happened in West Memphis. I believe that is what needs to be exposed and in a way that matters, before anyone can feasibly hope to see justice on this.

 

[Userid]

There's nothing suspicious about writing a journal in general -- granted -- but the fact it was started on the very day his son and 3 of his friends were abducted and murdered......that is one hell of a coincidence. Not saying this shows he's guilty, but that is a monumental coincidence, if anything.

Did he at least try to explain why he would start a journal on that particular day? Was it because he was worried and he needed some sort of "venting" to deal with the stress of his (at the time) missing step-son? Writing can be therapeutic in this sense.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

There's nothing suspicious about writing a journal in general -- granted -- but the fact it was started on the very day his son and 3 of his friends were abducted and murdered......that is one hell of a coincidence. Not saying this shows he's guilty, but that is a monumental coincidence, if anything.

Did he at least try to explain why he would start a journal on that particular day? Was it because he was worried and he needed some sort of "venting" to deal with the stress of his (at the time) missing step-son? Writing can be therapeutic in this sense.

Ok so here's more about the journal from the pasdar depo and my jaw dropped as I read it.

pg 18
Q. Isn’t it true, Mr. -- you wrote a journal,
6 did you not, Mr. Hobbs, from May the 5th, 1993
7 forward?
8 A. I have done a lot of writing.
9 Q. Well, you produced a four volume journal to
10 us, correct?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. And in that journal, don’t you state that the
13 press is out to get you?
14 A. No.
15 Q. You don’t say that?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Do you think folks are out to get you?
18 A. No.

Pg 55
10 Q. Were you honest and truthful about what
11 happened?
12 A. I try to be.
13 Q. You didn’t make stuff up?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. And what you told those folks actually
16 happened, right?
17 A. Well, I’m not sure what I told them. It’s
18 been a while ago.
19 Q. You tried to be truthful at the time?
20 A. I do.
21 Q. Okay. And the journals, the handwritten
22 journals that you produced in this case?
23 A. Uh-huh.
24 Q. Do you remember those?
25 A. I do.

Page 56
1 Q. You started making those journals May the
2 5th?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. When did you start making them?
5 A. Sometime in the nineties, early nineties.
6 Q. In the early nineties?
7 A. Uh-huh.
8 Q. Before or after the murders?
9 A. After.
10 Q. Okay. Do you recall how long after the
11 murders?
12 A. I don’t.
13 Q. And in the journals, you set out kind of what
14 happened from your perspective, correct?
15 A. As I seen it that night.
16 Q. And were you truthful and honest in those
17 journals?
18 A. The best I could be and can be.
19 Q. Okay. And so what you put in the journals is
20 how you recall everything came down that night?
21 A. Through my eyes, yes.
22 Q. Okay. And you have attempted to sell those
23 journals to book publishers, have you not?
24 A. Yes.

Page 418
18 Q. And I’m just wondering, why something as
19 important as you calling the police escapes your
20 memory?
21 A. It happens.
22 Q. And let me ask you --
23 A. Can you remember every detail 16 years ago?
24 Q. Well, then let me ask you then the follow-up
25 question to that is, why then in your own

Page 419
1 journals are there different accounts?
2 A. What is wrong with that?
3 Q. It sounds -- it sounds like you’re not
4 telling the truth, to be candid, sir.
5 A. It’s just a book.
6 Q. It sounds like you’re not telling the truth
7 in the book. Were you trying to be honest in
8 your journals?
9 A. Well, you know never what happened. It’s
10 just a book.
11 Q. Is it a fiction book?
12 A. Well, I don’t know.
13 Q. It may end up being a fiction book?
14 A. I’m not sure. I hope it’s a true story.
15 Q. And not to put too fine a point on it, but
16 this major event is something that you just can’t
17 remember right now, and that is, how many times
18 you called the police, whether you called the
19 police and at what time you called the police; is
20 that correct, sir, as you sit here today?
21 A. Looks like I called them once.
22 Q. You’re willing to rely on Exhibit 18, the
23 West Memphis Police Department log, as opposed to
24 all of these other versions of your accounts of
25 the events?

Page 420
1 A. Why would I dispute that? It’s a log.
2 Q. So the answer to my question is, that’s
3 correct, you’re willing to rely on the West
4 Memphis Police Department log as opposed to all
5 these different versions of events created by
6 you?
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. What time did you go over to Dana Moore’s
9 house and five minutes later meet Mark Byers?
10 Let me -- I’m trying to rush these things along.
11 I know we’re trying to get out of here.
12 A. I’m not sure of a time.
13 Q. In the Dimension Films interview, you say it
14 was six o’clock. With the West Memphis Police
15 Department you say it was 5:30 or 6:00. Do those
16 times sound approximately correct to you?
17 A. I don’t remember when it was.
18 Q. It could have been 8:00 p.m.?
19 A. I don’t remember.
20 Q. As you sit here today then, despite the
21 various accounts that are in all of your
22 journals, your Dimension Films interviews, your
23 interviews with the West Memphis Police
24 Department, as you sit here today, you simply
25 have no recollection of what time it was that you

Page 421
1 were over at Dana Moore’s house and met Mark
2 Byers; is that correct?
3 A. Correct.

 

[Cher Lockhomes]

So much for the journals of TH. I don't think the therapeutical value is very high if you don't write the truth.
I thought this was interesting too.

31. I have a copy of a book handwritten by Terry Hobbs which I found in some of Pam's things. I read it. It is about the murders, the events, the trials, his whereabouts on the night in question and how he has been affected by all the events. The book is strange in that Terry always refers to Stevie as "the boy," not by name.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/jl_mccaughey_declaration.html

If he had seriously wrote the journals, he would have had a good reference for his police interview, and the Pasdar hearing. These are his answers in both of them together.

I don't recall 34 times
I don’t know 212 times
I’m just guessing 9 times
I don’t remember 73 times
I can’t remember 3 times
I’m not sure 160 times
Question: Do you recall ? Answer: No 100 times

TH is leading the whole world with a nose ring !!!!!!!

 

[Userid]

Okay -- so where is it proven that he started the journals on the 5th? Hobbs denies it in the interview; and the questioner never presses him on it.

So, chances are it's just a rumor he started the journal on the 5th, right (let's be honest)? At best, it's just speculation?

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Okay -- so where is it proven that he started the journals on the 5th? Hobbs denies it in the interview; and the questioner never presses him on it.

So, chances are it's just a rumor he started the journal on the 5th, right (let's be honest)? At best, it's just speculation?

Ok so here's what's important. The journals are brought up right away page 18 and the first pages are just protocol stuff but right away they start the Q and A with the journals started may 5th 1993 and he doesn't deny it right off because he's not exactly sure where the tone of the interview is going (as in friendly, hostile, accusatory). Its when they circle back around to it again around page 50 he starts back tracking, evading and blurring things as to when he actually started the journals. I can only speculate sure because I can't see the journal. But then I have to wonder the true motivation for starting the journal.

 

[Userid]

Again -- you're putting your own spin on it.

It is never confirmed that he started the journal on that exact day; the questioner merely suggested such, and you interpreted it as gospel. Hobbs' delayed response doesn't prove anything one way or the other that it was started on May 5th.

This is the thing that upsets me about this case, and how misinformation gets spread. I know it's not intentional, but nonetheless, it aggravates me.

It is completely unsubstantiated that he started the journal on May the 5th. Please, don't spread it because it's nothing but a rumor you've interpreted as fact; and you're basing it on an extremely weak foundation (that he didn't immediately deny it on the spot). The lawyers in this case did what lawyers love to do for juries during trials: they suggest an occurrence, with no proof that it actually occurred, during a trial or a cross examination; and they hope the jury buys it hook, line, and sinker. By simply suggesting it, just the possibility of it, the lawyer hopes that tiny seed will blossom in his or her client's favor -- and this is exactly what's happening to you.

Again: this is completely unsubstantiated.

 

[Ausgirl]

I am under the impression that all those "idk" answers were on direction of a lawyer. It just looks like a legal tactic, to me.

I think Hobbs is downright scum, mind you, and would not put any lie past him. I'm just cautious about claiming things as evidence of guilt, when I can't really see it that way with any clarity.

Fact is, we don't know if Hobbs wrote before that day, we don't know if his last journal was full and he just happened to need to start a new one. we really do not know if this was the act of a guilty conscience with nobody to talk to about it. But if those journals were evidence of guilt, I would expect Hobbs to have had a convenient bonfire, iykwim. Just the fact they're in that courtroom makes me think he was pretty sure they were not too damning.

 

[zencompass]

I'm just not able to watch the video which you have all been discussing as for some reason I can't bring myself to watch it. Having said that, just following your postings about it demonstrates to me that there is key information on the video that possibly leads to TH. Your websleuthing is amazing and I can see that even just recently there are other "forks" in the road that additionally lead to the path straight to TH. I do believe in the new year something will move in this case. I agree with everyone on this that TH needs to basically be considered a suspect and thus needs to be interviewed at great length. More importantly, the evidence needs to be re-examined. Evidence that was pushed to the side as it didn't jive with the prosecution's "theory". Pull the boxes down from the shelves and let's have some transparency here. Those young murdered children deserve at least that. I've lost count of evidence and leads that directly show TH is the most viable suspect. JMO

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Again -- you're putting your own spin on it.

It is never confirmed that he started the journal on that exact day; the questioner merely suggested such, and you interpreted it as gospel. Hobbs' delayed response doesn't prove anything one way or the other that it was started on May 5th.

This is the thing that upsets me about this case, and how misinformation gets spread. I know it's not intentional, but nonetheless, it aggravates me.

It is completely unsubstantiated that he started the journal on May the 5th. Please, don't spread it because it's nothing but a rumor you've interpreted as fact; and you're basing it on an extremely weak foundation (that he didn't immediately deny it on the spot). The lawyers in this case did what lawyers love to do for juries during trials: they suggest an occurrence, with no proof that it actually occurred, during a trial or a cross examination; and they hope the jury buys it hook, line, and sinker. By simply suggesting it, just the possibility of it, the lawyer hopes that tiny seed will blossom in his or her client's favor -- and this is exactly what's happening to you.

Again: this is completely unsubstantiated.

I'm really sorry it was interpreted that way. I guess I got too excited with possibilities. I still want to delve into discussions of why there was a 4 volume journal started after the murders it intrigues my mind. Maybe the journals should be turned over to investigators, from what I understand Dimension films has bought them.

 

[Ausgirl]

I'm really sorry it was interpreted that way. I guess I got too excited with possibilities. I still want to delve into discussions of why there was a 4 volume journal started after the murders it intrigues my mind. Maybe the journals should be turned over to investigators, from what I understand Dimension films has bought them.

Is it just me - or is anyone a bit disturbed by that bolded part... It's like the deaths of these children have become a cottage industry. Enough is enough, wot.

About the "4-volume journal". I think Userid made a pretty fair point about establishing whether they actually were started the same day. I wonder if the entries are undated and that's why the lawyer didn't simply point to a date and say "NO, you DID start it on, blah blahblah" Though I am still not sure what it's even meant to prove, unless there's boasty references to child murder. But I bet there's not.

You know, I follow the Zahau case. I wonder why, if JMB is so convinced Hobbs dunnit, he doesn't bring a civil suit against Hobbs. If it isn't somehow completely stymied by the WM3 case and all the legal BS with it, it could be the only way any of this 'evidence' gets aired in a court in anybody's lifetime. If Hobbs (or anyone else) could *civilly* be found guilty, could that not be fuel for the case to re-open on a criminal level?

I am pretty ignorant of American law, so if I'm way off base, I'd like to hear why.