Viable suspect: Terry Hobbs #1

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I never did state anything definitively. I simply referenced a scientific study that supports my argument.

You can think the findings are "tainted," but again, simply because you personally don't like them because they don't support your argument, doesn't make it so. The results are not tainted, and the only thing you have to prove otherwise, is your personal and individual opinion.
 
Again, it's not only the "14 years after" fact, but I've already stated the multitude of reasons on the previous page, so I won't state them again.

But simply because a tragic event occurred in tandem with a supposed "memory," doesn't make the memory any more infallible, I'm sorry to say. Here is an article which explains such, with September 11th, 2001 used as one of the events: http://science.time.com/2013/11/19/...nt-study-shows-false-memories-afflict-us-all/

Sorry to say this is a nonsensical scientific effort, and is very misleading. It has nothing to do with modern psychology, or neurology. As the comment about halfway down the page by "billyjacck" states, even the most basic rules of repression were ignored. Yes this might happen with lizard brains, but not with humans. The links "billjacck" puts in there are also pretty basic psychology, but they are not a waste of time.
 
In other words, you rather take the side of some guy in the comments section of an article, rather than actual scientists? Okay, that's your prerogative.
 
No, I take sides with psychological / neurological experts, not with something on a pseudo scientific tabloid website.
 
Time magazine is a pseudo scientific tabloid website? Really?
 
Yes, I'm afraid so.

Wow, whatever you say, Lady. Guess the fact they've existed since 1923 and that it's the world's (let me repeat, world's) largest circulated weekly publication, not to mention the most iconic magazine in American history doesn't do it for you.
 
Hah, total apples to oranges comparison, but whatever you say. That's like saying the National Enquirer (1926) is on par with Time, which is completely and utterly asinine.
 
I agree with Cher! Time is not a respected scientific journal. It's even less reliable, IMO, than Readers' Digest which often summarizes scientific articles. I wanted to mention this before, but I was afraid if I did so, I would be poo-pooed. Using Time as a source is akin to using an encyclopedia article as a source in a term paper - a definite no-no!
 
This is funny: you guys act like I sourced some no-name online resource no one has ever heard of before or some blogger. You're both over-reacting to say the least.

Also, there is a difference between tabloids and news-weekly's. Daily Mirror, National Enquirer = Tabloids. Time, Newsweek = News Weekly.

Never had a professor who ever refused a paper I wrote with a Time and/or Encyclopedia source, and I majored in English at a top 10 University, in addition to being a published writer in both journalistic and creative capacities. The only source they wouldn't allow was Wikipedia, because it can be altered by anyone, and again, to equate Wikipedia with an actual Encyclopedia is one of the stupidest comparisons I've ever heard. Primary and secondary sources are allowable more often than not.

Such an immature argument. If you disagree with the study, fine -- but honestly.
 
Before the days of Wikipedia, all we had was encyclopedias. My husband is a retired English teacher, and he learned that encyclopedias were not permitted sources in a paper. Now, since encyclopedias are more or less out of date (as are most print sources) as soon as they are published, maybe they could be used for background information. But, in my day, they weren't allowed. Period.

Yes, I know that Time is a news weekly. However, it is not a scientific journal. It can (and does) report on certain studies that it feels will support its agenda, but I'd much rather rely on true scientific studies first hand, not the Readers' Digest version in Time. However, as I said before, at least Readers' Digest uses reliable sources when citing a scientific study!

As to my argument being immature, bless your heart! Thank you for sharing.
 
Well, yes - things have changed since "your day." Encyclopedias are almost always acceptable, particularly up to and including through high school; and as I said, many college professors will accept them as well. Wikipedia is the one "source" that is never allowed.

Just because it's not a scientific journal doesn't mean anything. And also, what would be the agenda here, for Time?

Whether you want to admit it or not, Time is a more than acceptable source to use. Time does cite it sources.

It's also more than ironic that instead of finding a study that contradicts mine, you two simply have decided to ridiculously claim my source as "unacceptable." How about you find me a study (from anywhere: including Time) that proves that a person's memory becomes infallible during a dramatic event?

Oh and by the way, this was a study conducted by the PNAS! Time is simply reporting the study! I can't believe I have to explain this to you both. I guess they're not good enough to qualify as a source either, simply because two junior detectives on a crimes-unsolved message board don't agree.
 
Here is the actual study, that Time was simply REPORTING on: http://www.pnas.org/content/110/52/20947.short

I guess the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America a "pseudo-science tabloid rag" too, I take it?

This a primary enough source for you?

This place is utterly ridiculous sometimes.
 
This is from your link:

"Finding false memories in a superior-memory group suggests that malleable reconstructive mechanisms may be fundamental to episodic remembering."

BBM

There is no evidence to suggest that JCB's memory was manipulated by "malleable reconstructive mechanisms" as were those of the people whose 9/11 memories were "enhanced" by false crash footage. Apples and oranges. What I'm saying is that, unless manipulated with false memories, a person's memories of a traumatic event are generally vivid and long-lasting. So, as I've stated before, JCB's statement is more likely to be correct, even after 14 years, because it was linked to a traumatic event.





ETA:

This study is more apropos to this situation. In part, it says,
"Just a tiny bit of emotional arousal will influence whether you remember something just a few minutes later," says McGaugh. And the more directly you're affected by something like 9/11—the closer you are to it physically and emotionally—the more emotionally arousing, and better remembered, it will likely be." So, even though memories erode over time, if a person has a close emotional connection to an event, as JCB did, their memories are invariably accurate, as the memories of those in Manhattan on 9/11 are more accurate over time than the memories of someone who wasn't on the spot. JCB was "on the spot" for the events she is recollecting. They are "etched" into her mind by an emotional binding that makes them not only accurate but lasting.
 
OK, to bring this silly spook to an end, this is the "False Memory Syndrome". It's the construction of intellectual paedophiles. If you are going to link to scientific studies, please check up on what is behind it, it's really irresponsible to spread this sort of dangerous propaganda which helps to destroy lives, and is against the spirit of this board which tries to bring light into cases such as this one, and bring some sort of justice to victims.

http://www.casac.ca/content/false-memory-label-invented-lobby-group

From the sensational media accounts of "false memory", it would be difficult for a person unfamiliar with sex abuse and psychological trauma to form a coherent opinion.

But here's the basic- information often omitted from such stories. There is no such scientific category as "false memory syndrome"; it's an impressive-sounding label, without medical validity, that was dreamed up by the foundation.

The foundation itself was started by Peter and Pamela Freyd, immediately after their grown daughter Jennifer privately confronted them with her memories of incest. Jennifer, an award winning professor of psychology at the University of Oregon, went public only after her parents had mounted a highly emotional public crusade against "false memory" accusations. In their defensive frenzy, they even attempted to enlist Jennifers academic colleagues to serve on their board. Jennifer has been quoted as wondering why her recovering alcoholic fathers memories should have any more credibility than her own.

The foundation's membership is made up of many such accused parents. Its scary statistics and anecdotes are all drawn from informal, non-scientific surveys of these same members. Its roster of impressive "professional advisers" isn't always what it seems. Some are respected researchers; others are hired-gun expert witnesses who travel the continent testifying, for a fee, on behalf of accused child molesters. One such vociferous member, Ralph Underwager, only recently - and hastily - resigned from the board after an interview with him appeared in a Dutch paedophilia magazine. Underwager has described paedophilia as "a responsible choice" and urged paedophiles to boldly "make the claim that paedophilia is an acceptable expression of God's will for love and unity."


http://www.leadershipcouncil.org/1/res/dallam/6.html

In 1992, the False Memory Syndrome Foundation (FMSF), an advocacy organization for people claiming to be falsely accused of sexual abuse, announced the discovery of a new syndrome involving iatrogenically created false memories of childhood sexual abuse. This article critically examines the assumptions underlying "False Memory Syndrome" to determine whether there is sufficient empirical evidence to support it as a valid diagnostic construct. Epidemiological evidence is also examined to determine whether there is data to support its advocates' claim of a public health crisis or epidemic. A review of the relevant literature demonstrates that the existence of such a syndrome lacks general acceptance in the mental health field, and that the construct is based on a series of faulty assumptions, many of which have been scientifically disproven. There is a similar lack of empirical validation for claims of a "false memory" epidemic. It is concluded that in the absence of any substantive scientific support, "False Memory Syndrome" is best characterized as a pseudoscientific syndrome that was developed to defend against claims of child abuse.

.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_tavistock04a.htm
http://educate-yourself.org/mc/falsememoryhoax1996.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Underwager
 
Yes, CL, that's what I discovered. That was what convicted (wrongfully) the defendants in the McMartin Day Care case. I hope the study I posted was, as I said, more apropos.
 
Well, at least you guys accept my source now (it would seem, anyway). But, if we're talking about the sources, The Canadian Association of Sexual Assault? Really? I wouldn't be saying anything, Cher, but Time is better than literally every single one of those sources (can't believe you used Wikipedia, but I digress). The False Memory Syndrome specifically applies to sexual assault. Again, you're comparing apples to oranges.

CR, the APA study is a good source, so props there. There is conflicting research on the subject, I will give you that:

Now, 10 years later, the research findings are revealing a story that, like memory itself, is not exactly clear. Some of the 9/11 studies indicate that we forget or falsely remember much more than we realize; we get facts wrong, for example, or misremember our emotional reactions.

And, let's not cast stones here, ladies. The amount of things I've seen regarding TH from both of you would amount to character-bashing more so than anything I've suggested regarding JCB and the possibility she simply has a faulty memory.

CR, again, you're throwing the baby out with the bath water. There is no proof that JCB's memory was "manipulated" -- okay -- but guess what, there's no proof that it wasn't either.
 
Yes, CL, that's what I discovered. That was what convicted (wrongfully) the defendants in the McMartin Day Care case. I hope the study I posted was, as I said, more apropos.

Yes CR, the general direction is right. In our physiological procedures we resemble each other, in our psychological procedures we are all very unique. This makes our perception of the same traumatic experience very individual, although something on the scale of 9/11 does produce general tendencies.
 
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