You are talking about streetwalkers there mostly. The craigslist bunch on average are more freelancers, because anyone with access to a computer and a phone can do it, and do so relatively discretely (something you can't do patroling the streets since everyone can see what you are). This is the reason for the explosion in prostitution in recent years. It is so easy for girls to do it with little risk, unless they get caught up in an LE sting or by a psychopath (both of which are fairly rare occurrences). On the street a pimp can spot the girls right away and intimidate them if they don't allready have that sort of protection, but operating from craigs list the girls are more insulated - pimps don't know who they are, or if they have protection allready.
Victim: Megan Waterman, 22, missing June 2010, found Gilgo Beach Dec 2010 *Rex Heuermann charged*
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You are talking about streetwalkers there mostly. The craigslist bunch on average are more freelancers, because anyone with access to a computer and a phone can do it, and do so relatively discretely (something you can't do patroling the streets since everyone can see what you are). This is the reason for the explosion in prostitution in recent years. It is so easy for girls to do it with little risk, unless they get caught up in an LE sting or by a psychopath (both of which are fairly rare occurrences). On the street a pimp can spot the girls right away and intimidate them if they don't allready have that sort of protection, but operating from craigs list the girls are more insulated - pimps don't know who they are, or if they have protection allready.
Vivalor
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No I wasn't just talking about street walkers. In fact none of these girls ever had to go on the streets at all. I guess I did say the streets at some point in my post but I was more meaning just that way of life to me is the streets well their jobs come from craigslist. The pimps brought the johns to the girls always. Sometimes they would bring the girls to the johns. In fact just a few months back in the town I grew up in they busted up a proposition/drug ring where they were getting men off of craigslist and even a hotel was brought down and was owned by one of the bigger pimps. This pimp they called big Mike owned the hotel and a restaurant. Only goes to show how much time the pimps are really putting into all of this. Lots of these girls were sure enough 15, 16, and freshly addicted to drugs. I don't think any of the girls were over the age of 25. Now I am guessing the pimps didn't just pick up johns on the streets...they new how to find them weather it be the internet or drug buyers. This ring was going on for years...and in fact I new most of the pimps and some of the girls I had went to school with. They were some of the girls that were my firends until they all got hooked and I didn't fit in with them any more.
Sometimes the pimps would also have the girls have sex with other drug dealers to pay a debt or get more drugs.
The thing about this hotel was you had to be an insider to know about it....such as the johns so how do you think the johns new about this when the whole town and even the cops didn't? The pimps set it all up and put up the adds. But they stay out of the actual deal and make it look like the girls are alone in the hotels because they don't want to get in trouble they would rather put it all on the women. That is why MB was prob alone at that hotel that night. And that is how come it took years of an investigation and sting to catch these pimps and most of the girls were not charged because they were underage and or doing this aginst their will. Think about it...
Oh yeah and most of these pimps came from Chicago and were on the run from the law in the first place.
Vivalor
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You see with these hotels being owned now by pimps and drug dealers it is now comon for the average public to think that it's all these girls doing this and setting everything up when in fact that's not true. I bet that hotel MB was staying at was known for prostituten and the owners let it go on because they got some type of deal out of it. Wether it be drugs, money or what ever it may be.
Yes I agree some girls do in fact hit craigslist alone but I can bet they didn't start off alone and were one of the smarter ones who got pissed at the pimps for taking their money and set off to do it alone. But notice how each of them had some type of drug addiction? I can bet they didn't get hooked by them selfs. But even just like at SG with MP who said he would get 1/3 of her earnings. Sounds like a pimp to me...who is to say he isn't keeping his mouth shut because on the streets you do get killed for talking. You see it everyday on 48 hours I don't think they ever have had to play a rerun of the show. People kill people everyday everywhere. If you live in a safe little subur or a nice little town...or even a bigger city but on the nice side then your of course going to be blind to this and simply just think woman chose to do this. No little girl dreams of growing up to be a hooker and beat by pimps and addicted to drugs.
Yes I agree some girls do in fact hit craigslist alone but I can bet they didn't start off alone and were one of the smarter ones who got pissed at the pimps for taking their money and set off to do it alone. But notice how each of them had some type of drug addiction? I can bet they didn't get hooked by them selfs. But even just like at SG with MP who said he would get 1/3 of her earnings. Sounds like a pimp to me...who is to say he isn't keeping his mouth shut because on the streets you do get killed for talking. You see it everyday on 48 hours I don't think they ever have had to play a rerun of the show. People kill people everyday everywhere. If you live in a safe little subur or a nice little town...or even a bigger city but on the nice side then your of course going to be blind to this and simply just think woman chose to do this. No little girl dreams of growing up to be a hooker and beat by pimps and addicted to drugs.
Viv, in the above two posts, you typed MB. MW was at the motel...MB, was last seen outside her apartment in the Bronx...
Easy mistake...most of us have done the same and usually with MBB and MB.
About these pimps, we know it was:
DS's phone and home that ALC used
AK's computer that MW used
MBB, supposedly, had "friends" checking and posting ads for her as (it has been stated by her sister) she didn't have a computer in NYC.
We also know:
AK set up and posted MW's ads
MP, the so-called driver, contacted or was contacted directly by JB.
JT, MB's "boyfriend," was very familiar with the old lonely guy in LI and even knew where his house was. So, was JT a boyfriend, a driver, a pimp or some combination of the three?
Easy mistake...most of us have done the same and usually with MBB and MB.
About these pimps, we know it was:
DS's phone and home that ALC used
AK's computer that MW used
MBB, supposedly, had "friends" checking and posting ads for her as (it has been stated by her sister) she didn't have a computer in NYC.
We also know:
AK set up and posted MW's ads
MP, the so-called driver, contacted or was contacted directly by JB.
JT, MB's "boyfriend," was very familiar with the old lonely guy in LI and even knew where his house was. So, was JT a boyfriend, a driver, a pimp or some combination of the three?
You have amazing insight into how this goes. Apparently someone else here has decided to subscribe to the belief that thse girls simply decided to do this with no nudging by a heavy hand. Sadly... you and I both know those girls are more rare than most would believe. MOST are not just getting into this on their own.
Even most that have not been helped into it by someone benefitting from their work, have fallen on hard times and feel there is nowhere to turn. I've seen the notebook MBB kept on her job search. This was a young mother desperately looking for a JOB. She had meticulous notes - every resume, every phone call, who she talked to, how many times she had gone back. She was doing everything you should to find a job. She was desperate.
Insisting these girls are mostly just looking for "easy" money is in denial about the trafficking
Even most that have not been helped into it by someone benefitting from their work, have fallen on hard times and feel there is nowhere to turn. I've seen the notebook MBB kept on her job search. This was a young mother desperately looking for a JOB. She had meticulous notes - every resume, every phone call, who she talked to, how many times she had gone back. She was doing everything you should to find a job. She was desperate.
Insisting these girls are mostly just looking for "easy" money is in denial about the trafficking
Girls that were victims of stranger abductions, have been showing up on CRAIGS LISTS. Kidnappers took and posted their pictures. Yes some have been rescued. Most of these girls arent seen again. When caught, these predators should do LIFE.
The trouble is that most of the GB4, AC4, JT and SG had arrest records. Once that happens, it is very difficult to get a job. Employers do background checks. If a person has been arrested for any felony, like JT (car theft) or SG (drug charges and money laundering, IIRC) and anything having to do with stealing MBB, ALC & MW (theft, lacerny, etc.) chances of landing a job become very limited. If they have been charged and convicted re: theft, drug or prostitution charges, the chances of some legitimate employer wanting to take a risk on these folks, when so many are looking for work, is minimal. The judicial records of these victims just added to their predicament.
Vivalor
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Yeah that was my bad! I knew it was MW but I was also reading up on MB. Those two do confuse me from time to time unless if I got a picture of them staring back at me. But I am happy most of you understand what I ment.
Vivalor
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I agree. It's kind of sad really. I mean no doubt I want to say well they shouldn't of gotten in trouble but young people do make mistakes and I feel that they shouldn't be denied real jobs for stupid mistakes. I mean if it is a cashier job or something. I guess I could understand if it was something a little more professional but even a job at wallmart is almost impossible to get if you have a charge.
I was also going to add into one of my post but forgot and it might be a little off topic but it's not just these young girls who are victims.
These young men are also victims. What I have seen is there is usually an older pimp/drug dealer (I've seen most of these bigger pimps being the fathers of these young men) what they do is have them deal the drugs on the streets. They are the one's actually selling the drugs and get caught and get the drug records. So then they are now stuck with not being able to get a job and keep up the drug dealing and some day go on to pimping and being bigger drug dealers. Just like some of the girls some of them get smart and start to deal bigger amounts on their own but end up dead or in jail. Or sometimes up the price to 25 or 30 to make an extra $ of their own but word gets back to the bigger guy and they get beat up, threatend, or hurt because the bigger guy don't want his customers being over charged because that is a fast way to lose customers.
But the thing is they also have someone they have to report to and keep doing so out of fear. So they could go out sell a bag at $20 each, sell to about 10 people a day and at the end of the day they have to give the money to the actual drug dealer. This actual drug dealer just like with the girls stay out of it and shelter the young men as well. You never see them on the street or exposing them self to johns and drug buyers to keep there name out of it and so this way it is hard to pin anything on them. The young men get the drug charges the girls get the prostitution charge. It takes years of an investigation to catch the actual big guy and once they do it usaly makes the news because of course they were found with large amounts of drugs and money. But even that is hard because I have seen that they will put the apt in the names of some of the young men.
Just like this big mike I was talking about he was driving around hummers, own houses, hotels, restaurants, always was impressing people with large amounts of cash but the thing was this money he had was money that was taken from the young girls and the young men who were actually taking the risk well he did nothing but profit. He just enjoyed his life well others were simply trying to live. It's sad but in my eyes that is the way I have seen it work how these young people first start off and get caught up in the game. Young men = drug dealers young woman = sex it's sad.
Vivalor
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And the thing I can't help to wonder is....do some of these girls get murdered by john's and are not reported missing to keep the pimp/drug rings safe and out of the eye of the cops. Could be why there are so many jane doe's when in fact some people know who they are but won't talk.
Or is it the pimps who gets mad and beats them and ends up killing them. I spent a lot of time wondering this. And wondering if this is how the toddler came about. They didn't know what to do with her once they had killed the mother. But at the same time it wouldn't be crazy to think that some woman would bring a child on a call. It's so hard to say.
There are pimps, no one is argueing that, but there are many more girls who do this on their own, or at least start out that way. You make it sound as though women could not possibly come up with this idea themselves, and that only a man could make them do it, but that is simply not true. The reasoning that many of these girls use is that they have sex a lot for free anyway and that it is no big deal to charge for it. So it is not a big leap for them to make. Yes, often they have personal issues or addiction problems, and the flood of money they recieve tends to make that a lot worse, but it is generally not the immediate cause. They drift into the lifestyle because at the time it seems no big deal and is easy to do. The path of least resistance for people with low boundaries.
The biggest entry into the business are not pimps, but FRIENDS of the prostitute who are allready in the biz and introduce them to the way of doing things. They see how their friends are awash with cash and think "well, I could do that too if it is that easy". So they start small, see a few clients, then go from there, or not. Part of that world are the "pimps" who offer various services for a fee, but they come into the picture AFTER the girl has entered the scene. Many, if not most, of the girls are incapable of dealing with the peripheral stuff themselves, so they pay people to take care of that for them. Those services are not free, and, because they are illegal, come with a hefty fee.
Sometimes it is just a service if LE leave them alone, if LE vigorously enforce the law then criminals take on that role, and they are far less pleasant to deal with.
There are a whole bunch of people who offer services in support of prostitutes in their business. There are people who run the websites, post adds or take calls on behalf of the prostitute. They charge a fee for this.
There are people who supply an incall (an apartment or a hotel space) and turn a blind eye, but they charge a high premium for doing this. These spaces are often "rented" out to multiple escorts and not to just one, so to an outside observer it might appear that the owner is a pimp running the girls when this may not the case. The amount charge will vary, depending on how upscale the location is. If you have an apartment and rent it out like this, you can make way more money than you could from any regular tenant. That is why some people do it.
Particularly in the case of hotels, which are generally used as incalls by touring girls. Hotels will stop these activities if they become too blatant and are aware of it, but mostly they leave the girls alone as long as they don't disrupt or disturb their other guests. Some are more tolerant than others, and have more lax security (such as not requiring the use of a key card to use the elevators), so these end up being the hotels most often used by the girls. That does NOT mean they are being run/owned by pimps.
There are people who drive the girl to her clients, or act essentially as bouncers at an incall if there is trouble. They also charge a fee, which is usually a set rate (where I live it is about $50 per hour, and some people make a living doing just this), in some cases it might be a percentage, depending on their arrangement with the escort.
All of these people fall under the legal definition of "living off the avails", which is against the law. So, they are all treated as "pimps", even though most of them are not the kind of pimp you are thinking of. Just being in that group does not make them some kind of , you would have to look at it on a case by case basis.
It is not as simple, as black and white, as you seem to think it is.
Longtime lurker here, really.
Not much to add, mostly I'm very much intrigued by what's going on with GB4, + 6 unidentified...and yes, many others.... like most of us are...
Why posting now, and here?
Well, it's simple... the facts are, there's some identified victims, some unidentified...
But, the direction this discussion is taking now is... 'these girls'.... 'Some hotels' ... 'they' ... 'them'.... 'most of' .... 'most are'...
Hello... this is Megan Waterman's thread...
I hate this generalization, we are talking about individual humans here...
(Silly me, should've reported this to a moderator... but as we're already in parking lot... take care boys and girls!)
Currently listening to The Cure's song 'Primary'
"The further we go
The older we grow
The more we know
The less we show ... "
[video=youtube;0xrZ61cuKLk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xrZ61cuKLk[/video]
Not much to add, mostly I'm very much intrigued by what's going on with GB4, + 6 unidentified...and yes, many others.... like most of us are...
Why posting now, and here?
Well, it's simple... the facts are, there's some identified victims, some unidentified...
But, the direction this discussion is taking now is... 'these girls'.... 'Some hotels' ... 'they' ... 'them'.... 'most of' .... 'most are'...
Hello... this is Megan Waterman's thread...
I hate this generalization, we are talking about individual humans here...
(Silly me, should've reported this to a moderator... but as we're already in parking lot... take care boys and girls!)
Currently listening to The Cure's song 'Primary'
"The further we go
The older we grow
The more we know
The less we show ... "
[video=youtube;0xrZ61cuKLk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xrZ61cuKLk[/video]
Vivalor
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I don't think it's black or white at all. I think it's very complex and hard to realize. I think to blame it all on the woman and think that these woman are just looking for a life of pink fuzzies and glitter is actually closed minded and is turning a blind eye to the bigger problem. If these were ALL grown woman who were just sexual deviant and doing this on their own then I wouldn't care much. A grown woman can do what ever she pleases. And if she chooses to sell her body for money and enjoys it hey more power to her.
My problem is the underage girls who are not old enough to make smart choices that you seem to just over look and go right to blaming their friends and them self yet not the adults who are doing this to them. I am talking about children who can not make their own decisions and are being brought into this life by pimps. Pimps who are looking for girls like that, the younger the girls the better the money.
Lots and lots of pediphiles out there.
And yes this guy owned the hotel. Yes he was a drug dealer and yes he was brining in prostitutes in from two different states as well as targeting girls from around town. He went to prison for multiple charges all felonies. He owned the hotel along with a restaurant. This is all fact. I wasn't just implying that this could of been the case it was the case and it was all in the paper and he was charged with it all and is right now in prison for his actions. And all the court records are public and free. I am not brain dead I can understand what I am reading and see. Crazy...huh? This guy was in fact a pimp who owned these things and was a drug dealer/pimp.
Sure there are hotels who are not owned by these kinds of men and with the hotels more times then not the girls are just renting the rooms and not owned by a pimp. But I think you would be shocked if your realized just how more and more common this is becoming.
Just in case it rings any bells. (RR was arrrested for, faking his own death, conspiracy to commit insurance fraud and before serving his 90 days sentence!!! he impersonated an officer and tried to abduct at least two women and maybe more.)
Here is a voice recording:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...kkhTZ2MVI#t=0s
Here is a voice recording:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...kkhTZ2MVI#t=0s
To Kill a Mockingbird
Karma Will Get LISK!!!
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Name........... AKEEM CRUZ
Register #........ 79853-053
Release Date........11-28-2014
Register #........ 79853-053
Release Date........11-28-2014
giagreen
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Kind of wish MW thread wouldn't of been so side tracked with all this talk about her pimp. I mean he's scum no doubt but I think it's safe to say her pimp is not the LISK. I've seen happen so many times in so many cases where a woman is murdered and the spot light is all on the wrong person for two long.
I am sure it's been sleuthed here before plenty of times....but I still want to know more about her walking out of that hotel. I with all my heart believe that MW, and MBB could hold the most clues about this guys way of operating.
I am sure it's been sleuthed here before plenty of times....but I still want to know more about her walking out of that hotel. I with all my heart believe that MW, and MBB could hold the most clues about this guys way of operating.
CriminalMinds
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imho, mbb
giagreen
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