Victim - Melissa Barthelemy

[Tugela]

Hmm, that's what I thought too. But the article clearly says "low voice", not "normal" tone.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/sicko_call_from_slay_gal_cell_5COah6gj6Xkk2gT4KgekcI/0

If someone was making such a call, don't you think that they would be disguising their voice in some fashion? Perhaps even their ethnicity?

And wasn't Johnny Terry a suspect? Wouldn't that lead you to believe that investigators may have not been convinced that the caller was white?

Also, I've noted that this guy has a tactic of hanging out in hotel parking lots to find prostitutes. It helps him avoid police stings. Megan Waterman was last seen in the parking lot of a hotel, walking to a convenience store.

People talk in low voices in situations like that because they don't want anyone else to hear them, even if there is no one around. It is human nature.

 

[Tugela]

I read somewhere that after Melissa moved to the Bronx that she worked at a barbershop. Does anyone know if this is true or not? If she did does anyone know the name of the barbershop and its location. Mr Brendt believes the women were stalked. Maybe the killer was a customer.

Mr Brendt is wrong in that case. The killer would have had the girls come to him, so it would have been a regular escort call for them. He would also have arranged to meet them at a neutral place, such as a motel or something like that, so there would be no possibility of the call being traced back to him (to avoid being caught).

He might have seen the girls multiple times, but I think not. Multiple times would be riskier, since it would create the possibility of evidence linking him to the girls being retained by a third party inbetween visits.

These killings are one off affairs IMO, the girls were chosen at random, their only common feature being that they were full/part-time escorts. The girls would not have known the killer at all before they met up with him.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Mr Brendt is wrong in that case. The killer would have had the girls come to him, so it would have been a regular escort call for them. He would also have arranged to meet them at a neutral place, such as a motel or something like that, so there would be no possibility of the call being traced back to him (to avoid being caught).

He might have seen the girls multiple times, but I think not. Multiple times would be riskier, since it would create the possibility of evidence linking him to the girls being retained by a third party inbetween visits.

These killings are one off affairs IMO, the girls were chosen at random, their only common feature being that they were full/part-time escorts. The girls would not have known the killer at all before they met up with him.

If he would have made arrangements by phone, he would have been found by the phone records or at least, it would be clear by now, there was in every case a client using a burner phone. So, I can't prove I'm right before he is caught, but I can be pretty sure, you're off the mark here, due to technical improbability. And he would need to make the contact first to get them anywhere. Unless of course, you believe in telepathic messaging.
And MBB disappeared from a bus terminal. So ... are all women in a bus terminal automatically prostitutes? What do you think? And while MBB disappeared from NYC, MW disappeared from Haupauge. That would be quite a comfort zone for a random hunting killer, don't you think? The biggest ever since Bundy.
So ... you maybe don't agree with my theory, but by all means, at least it doesn't need telepathic arrangements and a killer hunting randomly for victims in at least two places where he can't expect one to find.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

Mr Brendt is wrong in that case. The killer would have had the girls come to him, so it would have been a regular escort call for them. He would also have arranged to meet them at a neutral place, such as a motel or something like that, so there would be no possibility of the call being traced back to him (to avoid being caught).

He might have seen the girls multiple times, but I think not. Multiple times would be riskier, since it would create the possibility of evidence linking him to the girls being retained by a third party inbetween visits.

These killings are one off affairs IMO, the girls were chosen at random, their only common feature being that they were full/part-time escorts. The girls would not have known the killer at all before they met up with him.

oh no - may I disagree with you please.
without a doubt....its highly more than likely 2 girls saw the killer
a couple of times before he killed her. oh yes.
oh yes they absolutely would know their killer from meeting him previously.
oh yes.
he's no fool. he doesnt leave evidence behind.
multiple times - could that be THREE times?
it might be more than half the fun - planning it out and calculating
and fantasizing how he's going to (off) them...
getting to know them a bit.

cat and mouse game.

without a doubt.. what's wrong with 3 times tugela?

 

[Tugela]

If he would have made arrangements by phone, he would have been found by the phone records or at least, it would be clear by now, there was in every case a client using a burner phone. So, I can't prove I'm right before he is caught, but I can be pretty sure, you're off the mark here, due to technical improbability. And he would need to make the contact first to get them anywhere. Unless of course, you believe in telepathic messaging.
And MBB disappeared from a bus terminal. So ... are all women in a bus terminal automatically prostitutes? What do you think? And while MBB disappeared from NYC, MW disappeared from Haupauge. That would be quite a comfort zone for a random hunting killer, don't you think? The biggest ever since Bundy.
So ... you maybe don't agree with my theory, but by all means, at least it doesn't need telepathic arrangements and a killer hunting randomly for victims in at least two places where he can't expect one to find.

Many if not most clients use "disposable" phones so their activities can't be traced, so as to maintain privacy. Most will not use their real name either. It is a little different at the high end, where the escort does a background check first to ensure that the client isn't LE. Those ladies will probably know who their clients are, but at the low to mid end they go primarily on their "gut feeling". The latter women rarely know who it actually is they are going to see.

As to LE seeing a throwaway phone as a clue, no, because pretty much all of the escorts clients will probably be using the same method.

Dissappearing from a place like a bus terminal....that would be consistent with meeting on neutral ground, which is exactly what this sort of SK would want. It is a risky thing for an escort to do, and many will refuse for that very reason, but it does happen that way on occasion at the lower end of the spectrum where the girls are inexperienced and/or desparate.

 

[Tugela]

oh no - may I disagree with you please.
without a doubt....its highly more than likely 2 girls saw the killer
a couple of times before he killed her. oh yes.
oh yes they absolutely would know their killer from meeting him previously.
oh yes.
he's no fool. he doesnt leave evidence behind.
multiple times - could that be THREE times?
it might be more than half the fun - planning it out and calculating
and fantasizing how he's going to (off) them...
getting to know them a bit.

cat and mouse game.

without a doubt.. what's wrong with 3 times tugela?

What is wrong with it is because, every time a girl sees him and leaves alive, there will be potential evidence leaving with them. If he sees them multiple times there will be multiple sources of potential evidence, the girl might talk to other people, other people might know who he is. He will not want that risk, so, once he has them in a situation where he is sure they are vulnerable, he will kill them and not let them get away. Dead girls tell no tales from his point of view.

 

[deedee21]

People talk in low voices in situations like that because they don't want anyone else to hear them, even if there is no one around. It is human nature.

The article said low and the attorney for the family said soft spoken. It all means the same thing. If hes calling from the most crowded places in Manhattan i wonder if there was background noice. I dont think he would talk on a crowded street. Maybe he was in a car.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

What is wrong with it is because, every time a girl sees him and leaves alive, there will be potential evidence leaving with them. If he sees them multiple times there will be multiple sources of potential evidence, the girl might talk to other people, other people might know who he is. He will not want that risk, so, once he has them in a situation where he is sure they are vulnerable, he will kill them and not let them get away. [FONT=[COLOR="Red"]"Times New Roman"]Dead girls tell no tales from his point of view.[/FONT][/COLOR]

but the girls HAVE talked to other people.
and dead girls DO tell tales. oh yes they do.

why would you say dead girls tell no tales from his point of view.
how do you know what his point of view is?
how do you know what is ticking inside his head?
he's a crafty clever sociopath who is deceitfully leading a double life
and a psychopath in society. he's EXTREMELY adept.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Many if not most clients use "disposable" phones so their activities can't be traced, so as to maintain privacy. Most will not use their real name either. It is a little different at the high end, where the escort does a background check first to ensure that the client isn't LE. Those ladies will probably know who their clients are, but at the low to mid end they go primarily on their "gut feeling". The latter women rarely know who it actually is they are going to see.

As to LE seeing a throwaway phone as a clue, no, because pretty much all of the escorts clients will probably be using the same method.

Dissappearing from a place like a bus terminal....that would be consistent with meeting on neutral ground, which is exactly what this sort of SK would want. It is a risky thing for an escort to do, and many will refuse for that very reason, but it does happen that way on occasion at the lower end of the spectrum where the girls are inexperienced and/or desparate.

So we're again at the homicidal last John ... only that at least one of the last Johns was found, that police officer. And LE wouldn't tell us about others they found. And no, I won't go back to bring the articles, it's somewhere in the old threads, this discussion was led at least three times already.
And calling the bus terminal "neutral ground" works only if you entirely ignore MBB's last phone calls. Okay, she planned to stay all weekend. But her last phone call was from the bus terminal and she told friends all she wanted was going home. "Bus terminal" + "the explicitly worded wish to go home" doesn't add up to stay with an unknown client.
And with the exception of MBB, those girls were neither inexperienced nor too desperate.
So well, you can of course believe what you want. Funny thing, you even won't get jumped by TheForeigner for placing your opinion as fact. But aside of that all, the moment, you have to ignore MBB's phone call, ignore that police obviously found one of the last Johns, probably two and have to ignore, that your homicidal John hunted at least one time in Haupauge even he had no reason to leave his comfort zone in NYC to make that happen, takes a little bit the credibility from the homicidal John theory.

 

[Peter Brendt]

but the girls HAVE talked to other people.
and dead girls DO tell tales. oh yes they do.

why would you say dead girls tell no tales from his point of view.
how do you know what his point of view is?
how do you know what is ticking inside his head?
he's a crafty clever sociopath who is deceitfully leading a double life
and a psychopath in society. he's EXTREMELY adept.

Just wondering, what do you think? Psychopath or sociopath. I'm pretty sure, Manorville is a psychopath, but LISK? A real sociopathic killer is quite rare, most SKs are psychopaths, however, now and then, it happens.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

Just wondering, what do you think? Psychopath or sociopath. I'm pretty sure, Manorville is a psychopath, but LISK? A real sociopathic killer is quite rare, most SKs are psychopaths, however, now and then, it happens.

LISK is calculating, extremely ruthless with no remorse, is intentionally psychologically evil. He called the barthelemy's and traumatized a little teen ager in an extremely controlled voice in a controlled setting and led the family to believe that melissa was alive and being tortured. You can not be more psychologically damaged than that - to hurt the fabric of a family. To destroy the sanctity of a teen ager's adoration of her older sis and to have a mother drop to her knees in utter despair to think of the harm and torture her own baby girl was going thru up to the moment of death. To think that your daughter was being tortured routinely - because the SK is calling your other daughter and telling her that.....is unthinkable. its not even your worst nightmare...its horrific to the extreme that its off the charts.

He has a very brilliant side to him and absolutely lives a double life. Unlike you - I believe the same man killed Jessica Taylor as her torso was in M and her head and hands were found on OP. Then you have the parts found at JFK Bird Sanctuary.
Who ever it is (i believe) lives there as his personal trophies were in his personal graveyard as he drove by day after day.

Unlike Isreal Keyes, who just killed himself in jail about 2 weeks ago, (an AMAZING sk - if you are not familiar with him, i invite you to read up on him) Long Islands sk - lives there. He very well may be a seasonal worker, the only fly in the ointment is, why did CPH call MG?

Any assortment of variables could have happened to SG that night - or that morning....but MG got the call from CPH - and MG had NO IDEA SG was "missing". That is the problem for him, but lucky for us, we get to follow along the lawsuit page by page. And if there is a trial, believe me, it will be on Court Tv (or what ever its called these days) Tru TV?

long answer, but I hope I answered your question.

 

[LR1]

IMO, its not very calculating or brilliant for a SK who theoretically lives in OB to go on to kill and dump a further two victims right down the road from its residence after the SG affair took place knowing full well sooner or later someone would come looking in the last area she was seen. Unless of course it was wanting these crimes to be exposed which I do not feel is the case.

 

[Peter Brendt]

LISK is calculating, extremely ruthless with no remorse, is intentionally psychologically evil. He called the barthelemy's and traumatized a little teen ager in an extremely controlled voice in a controlled setting and led the family to believe that melissa was alive and being tortured. You can not be more psychologically damaged than that - to hurt the fabric of a family. To destroy the sanctity of a teen ager's adoration of her older sis and to have a mother drop to her knees in utter despair to think of the harm and torture her own baby girl was going thru up to the moment of death. To think that your daughter was being tortured routinely - because the SK is calling your other daughter and telling her that.....is unthinkable. its not even your worst nightmare...its horrific to the extreme that its off the charts.

My problem with that part is the why. He didn't call the other victim's families or friends, it was just Barthelmy. Means, these calls were off his signature, off what he needs from his murders. But if it is, a quite successful, attempt to direct any investigation down the wrong road, this hangs a little too high for the usual psychopath, that would be sociopath. That was why I asked. To get another opinion.

He has a very brilliant side to him and absolutely lives a double life. Unlike you - I believe the same man killed Jessica Taylor as her torso was in M and her head and hands were found on OP. Then you have the parts found at JFK Bird Sanctuary.
Who ever it is (i believe) lives there as his personal trophies were in his personal graveyard as he drove by day after day.

Well, this is exactly the point here. If he enjoyed that much to have a drive-by trophy garden, why weren't the other victims nicely stashed away in similar trophy gardens. And while I don't believe, he lives down there, I agree, he enjoyed to drive by when his time allowed it.
The other point is, that Manorville, the dismemberment, shows a degree of violence even the GB4 murders don't show. So to make this one and the same SK, one would need to find a reason why the level of violence de-escalates. And while LISK was still in the ramp-up, Manorville showed an almost constant slow kill speed. So, those are reasons (not the complete list though) why I don't believe it's one and the same. But yes, what you describe as "almost brilliant" sounds more like a highly organized sociopath than like psychopath.

Unlike Isreal Keyes, who just killed himself in jail about 2 weeks ago, (an AMAZING sk - if you are not familiar with him, i invite you to read up on him) Long Islands sk - lives there. He very well may be a seasonal worker, the only fly in the ointment is, why did CPH call MG?

Israel Keyes, now that's a charmer, wasn't he? Still, I don't think, LISK lives actually on the islands. Too near to the dumping grounds. SKs who build clustered dump sites usually don't live that near. Corll for example, had his trophy gardens 17 and almost 20 miles away, Bundy is record holder with 120 miles in one case, Ridgway, what was that? 30, 35 miles.
And it appears to me, LISK wasn't familiar with the local grape vine. He places ALC in his trophy garden, not knowing, the area was probably compromised.
So, why did CPH call MG. First of all, because he did so because he didn't know, she was dead. Because if he would known, even for an attention hog like CPH, the iron would have been far too hot. Second thing, he may was involved in the chaos of that night, even only on the sidelines, and therefore felt the need to cover up. Cover up for what had happened, not for murder. This guy tried his whole life to play the positive hero. Stopping to help a motorist and losing his leg. What tells that about someone? It tells basically, he let the simplest safety measures down to help because helping is what gives him the feeling of being someone. Remember TWA-800? Look up CPH's name and divers and hyperbaric prep. Just as a hint. This guy wanted always to be some kind of hero. So, aside of all the physical impossibilities for him to be LISK, it also doesn't fit his profile. Which doesn't mean, he knows nothing, but he is not the murderer of SG (if she was murdered at all)

Any assortment of variables could have happened to SG that night - or that morning....but MG got the call from CPH - and MG had NO IDEA SG was "missing". That is the problem for him, but lucky for us, we get to follow along the lawsuit page by page. And if there is a trial, believe me, it will be on Court Tv (or what ever its called these days) Tru TV?

Since that story with the diver from Alabama, who allegedly killed his wife, I am always careful with such publicity stunts. People like to see what they expect to see, rather than what is there to see. And so we will get in a lot of footage not what is there to see, but what journalists of all colors want to see. Look at the Trayvon Martin case. Whatever you think, what really happened, but I guess, everyone can agree, all journalists who wrote about it, wrote to sell their opinion, not the facts. So, my hopes to get actually something real out of it, is limited. I had one phone call once with Mr. Ray and I don't think, he knows too much about SKs in general. However, that's not the job of a lawyer, isn't it?

long answer, but I hope I answered your question.

Well, sociopath or psychopath is still open. But the other issues were interesting too. Have a Happy New Year

Peter

 

[mcme]

....but MG got the call from CPH - and MG had NO IDEA SG was "missing". That is the problem for him, but lucky for us, we get to follow along the lawsuit page by page.

Since there is no evidence that this ever happened, have you considered that maybe it didn't? A phone record of a call made to MG, by someone unknown to MG, from before she knew SG was missing would go a long way towards supporting her claim. Yet in all this time, there's nothing. Combine that with her early interviews stating how she heard SG was missing, the ones with no mention of this call, and I've got some serious doubts.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

Since there is no evidence that this ever happened, have you considered that maybe it didn't? A phone record of a call made to MG, by someone unknown to MG, from before she knew SG was missing would go a long way towards supporting her claim. Yet in all this time, there's nothing. Combine that with her early interviews stating how she heard SG was missing, the ones with no mention of this call, and I've got some serious doubts.

you can doubt all you want, doubt away.....feel free....don't believe a thing.
just because it has not been reported in the press
does not mean evidence is missing.

how do you know there is no proof....that cph called mrs. gilbert the next morning....??? or someone SAYING it was him?

that's the iceberg of this case...isnt it.

and you saw the movie the titanic...you know what's UNDER the water, right?

 

[NoviceSleuth]

"The killer always phoned in the evenings, spoke briefly and in a low voice -- and only to Amanda. He calmly spewed taunts and allegations. He sent text messages. "

Taken from http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/s...kk2gT4KgekcI/0

I didn't know that Amanda also received text messages! What, if anything, was learned from them? Were the texts ever discussed on this site? Am I the only one who didn't know about the text messages or what was said in them?

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

The killer always phoned in the evenings, spoke briefly and in a low voice -- and only to Amanda. He calmly spewed taunts and allegations. He sent text messages.

Taken from http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/s...kk2gT4KgekcI/0

I didn't know that Amanda also received text messages! What, if anything, was learned from them? Were the texts ever discussed on this site? Am I the only one who didn't know about the text messages or what was said in them?

novice sleuth....when i clicked on the ny post url that you posted. it said:

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[NoviceSleuth]

Hmm, that's what I thought too. But the article clearly says "low voice", not "normal" tone.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/sicko_call_from_slay_gal_cell_5COah6gj6Xkk2gT4KgekcI/0

If someone was making such a call, don't you think that they would be disguising their voice in some fashion? Perhaps even their ethnicity?

And wasn't Johnny Terry a suspect? Wouldn't that lead you to believe that investigators may have not been convinced that the caller was white?

Also, I've noted that this guy has a tactic of hanging out in hotel parking lots to find prostitutes. It helps him avoid police stings. Megan Waterman was last seen in the parking lot of a hotel, walking to a convenience store.

This was the original post that I got the info about text messages

 

[fred&edna]

Presuming CPH is not guilty, then MB's family would be the only family who was contacted by the killer and this seems very important (imo). When Amanda visited Melissa in NYC she doesn't remember meeting anyone that seemed to stand out, so... what if he knew both of them before MB began working in NY? What about TT who has an address 5 houses away??

Yeah, I know this isn't quite as freakishly interesting as the drifter/master/vendetta crew.

 

[Just K]

Presuming CPH is not guilty, then MB's family would be the only family who was contacted by the killer and this seems very important (imo). When Amanda visited Melissa in NYC she doesn't remember meeting anyone that seemed to stand out, so... what if he knew both of them before MB began working in NY? What about TT who has an address 5 houses away??

Yeah, I know this isn't quite as freakishly interesting as the drifter/master/vendetta crew.

TT, the NYS Trooper from Buffalo? If not who is TT?

Something very important, I believe Inspectorgadget posted last night or yesterday.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Victim - Melissa Barthelemy

This is a UG member who is said to be a misogynist black male who has a long history of abuse on working women...in particular Black working women. He uses the phrase "Half Breed." He frequents streetwalkers and Escorts and speaks of trying to get better prices by seeing there pics posted on line and then searching the outside and near the local motels in an effort to spot them between johns/jobs.

This guy, admits traveling to Florida, NJ, PA and says he is both from Washington, DC ((Barry Farms public Housing) and either Brooklyn or the Bronx. He even mentions something about Sunrise Hwy.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Irv...b747fe93862d6b&bpcl=40096503&biw=1024&bih=477

Go to this link, scroll down about half way down and look at 10-05-2010.
http://mrlaureltonqueens-misogynist.blogspot.com/2011_08_01_archive.html

He speaks of how pros use the internet now but if you go to their motel/hotel you might find them. Also, he talks about being caught off guard by transsexuals a few times.