Victim - Melissa Barthelemy

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BBM

I don't believe that for a second. And apparently, neither did Dormer, because he clearly states in this documentary, that LE believes the victims were dumped shortly after they were killed.

This guy doesn't hold on to the bodies, imo. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, once these girls were dead, they were useless to him, and he dumped them like broken toys. In fact, I'd bet my farm that his psychological make-up is such that he couldn't hold on to them, even if he wanted to. He's up close and personal when hunting and killing, but once the deed is done, there's a need to create an emotional distance, imo. Fantasy is a driving force with this guy, and I don't think he can allow the ugly truth to intrude on that.

All just MOO.

I also agree with this statement. I think the quote, "I'm going to watch her rot" is him driving by the dump site. But that's just my opinion.

That documentary along with the one Bodies on the Beach done by Fios1 both hint that MB might have been held. I don't say this because of MB's mom's statement but because of the words and phrases the caller used. According to the information out there about the calls the caller would refer to MB in the present tense with things like "she's a *advertiser censored*" instead of she was a *advertiser censored*. Now this may have been a ploy or it was a deliberate truthful statement to prove MB was alive and he was in control of her life. How this helps with the investigation I have no idea. Just something that always stuck with me watching those two documentaries.
 
And I just caught this after watching this Docu at least 10 times. Dormer said at 10:44 " it sounds like he was aware of what happened to the victim" Why SOUNDS and not appears or any other word.....?

Its at 11:44 and that is a very good point, its like dormers describing what he heard in the recording.
 
@ MK...... Do you think he may be a "blitz" killer? I just posted a thought in the Post your Theory section......something to that effect?
 
Okay, lets get this down to the ground a little.

First thing, Mountain_Kat, I agree, the GB4 site is a trophy case or the term, I used garden. The problem is, that this exactly documents, those dead girls have actually a post mortem meaning for him. Not as individuals mostly, but as trophies. And as it is for most people, who collect trophies, the collection, the number of trophies in it is the significant point in having a trophy collection in the first place, especially in the case a trophy collection doesn't contain special singular items but heterogeneous items or in this case girls.
Now the point here is, this dump site wasn't in a really remote place, it was along a road. Roads always bear the risk, someone uses them. So it's not the kind of place, an SK can sit around for hours to relive what he did. And it's for sure not the place, he can commit necrophilia. So, when LISK dumped the first body there, then the second, he was aware of those limitations. It didn't bother him. That tells me, he doesn't need to sit there for long times, he doesn't need to touch or watch them regularly.
The other part to that, is something I told a thousand times: There are SKs who keep bodies or body parts. If so, they do it in a place they have control over. Their own places. On the other hand, SKs, who build clustered dump sites, they don't do it just a mile away. To my knowledge, Corll is the one with the shortest distance between home and dump site on record: 17 miles. Record holder is, as far as I know, Bundy with about 120 miles. To have distance between home and dump site is not only forensic counter measure. SKs who build such clustered dump sites chose the places carefully for their needs. A Bundy in his Washington State time, he picked places in the forest, he felt as calming, peaceful. Corll picked his two big dumping grounds because of the combination of forest and water which he felt as peaceful. To drive out to such a clustered dump site is special and has to be special for an SK. The trip has almost ritualistic significance and it is the anticipation that makes a big part of it. Therefore, I don't think, he lives nearby or his daily routines lead him pass that area. That would be too mundane, not special and therefore not significant enough for him.

Second thing, Dormer in that docu. Well Dormer tried some four months to convince everybody there wouldn't be an SK at all. Since then, he tried everybody to convince, there is only one, despite the obvious differences. Dormer has in the whole story said nothing beyond the fact of the body discoveries anything, that would display any kind of brilliant thinking, understanding of the situation or an interest in anything else but to survive the time till his retirement. And while I don't think, SG was actually murdered, one has to admit, his line about, she ran off and drowned was more a lucky guess than based on knowledge. So, why would anyone try to base know a significant part of a theory on something Dormer said. Not even on a complete sentence but on single words picket out of the mess without context?

Third thing, LISK: Most psychopaths are not only pathological liars, they are pretty good at it. And the higher IQ types of psychopath learn already in their youth a lot about emotions. Because people always expect some kind of emotional response from them, a response they can't feel, they learn to figure out what is expected and fake it. Now, people don't think too often about it, but there is a second side to this ability. They often can with the same technique figure what other people feel, what emotional response to expect from them. They can, especially if the person they talk to is young and vulnerable, manipulate them. Thus, a psychopaths behavior in such a phone call is goal oriented, it is not what he feels, it is about what the called person feels. Aside of it, we know, those calls are not actually part of LISK's ritual, nothing, he needs. He made such calls only in one case. So either, there is something very special in that case for him or the calls fulfilled a purpose. Now, if a pathological liar with the ability to foresee emotional reactions in a 16 year ld girl calls her, what will he use as tool? The truth, that will maybe lead the police to him and that will give the sister a first sense of knowing, the victim is dead? Or another version, one including hope for the price of ongoing terror with the additional advantage, that he can lay out whole boxes of red herrings for the gullible? Which way would a psychopath chose?
And aside of that, to hold a victim for a time longer than maybe three days, one has to be unemployed or on vacations, needs a very private place and more important accomplices so one gets a little sleep in between.
 
Okay, lets get this down to the ground a little.

First thing, Mountain_Kat, I agree, the GB4 site is a trophy case or the term, I used garden. The problem is, that this exactly documents, those dead girls have actually a post mortem meaning for him. Not as individuals mostly, but as trophies.

Bolded and snipped by me.

I absolutely agree that the bodies, post mortem, had meaning to him. But I think he did certain things to create an emotional distance from the reality of his handiwork. Watching a bundle wrapped in burlap from a certain physical distance, is by no means the same as looking into the face of a woman you murdered, see what I mean? The reality then intrudes on the fantasy you've created...and I don't think LISK can handle that.

Again, just my opinion.
 
No, more like he has them and kills almost immedatly or within an hour or so.

I do think he kills them shortly after taking them. I think he toys with them for awhile, a few hours or more, then does the deed. And I think he dumps them immediately afterwards.

JMO
 
Bolded and snipped by me.

I absolutely agree that the bodies, post mortem, had meaning to him. But I think he did certain things to create an emotional distance from the reality of his handiwork. Watching a bundle wrapped in burlap from a certain physical distance, is by no means the same as looking into the face of a woman you murdered, see what I mean? The reality then intrudes on the fantasy you've created...and I don't think LISK can handle that.

Again, just my opinion.

He had to objectize them from the start to be able to kill them. I think, IMO, objectizing certain groups of people is his basic mindset anyway. A lot of people do it and patients with any kind of anti-social personality disorder have an even stronger tendency to do so.
 
I do think he kills them shortly after taking them. I think he toys with them for awhile, a few hours or more, then does the deed. And I think he dumps them immediately afterwards.

JMO

Problem is, there are no reports about torture marks. I can't imagine, that could be held under cover for that long. So it looks to me, there was no physical torture. Now given the recurring lifestyle subject in the calls, I can imagine, some kind of psychological torture may took place.
 
Has anyone found any arrest records for MB? Is she the only one amongst the GB4 to have no arrests?
 
I have this...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-159991.html

Sep 12, 2008 Barthelemy arrest f. prostitution at 6th & W 46th in Manhattan.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...h-victims-1.2633910+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

According to the Manhattan district attorney's office, Barthelemy was arrested on
Sept. 12, 2008, at Sixth Avenue and West 46th Street on suspicion of prostitution.
In April 2009, she pleaded guilty to attempted prostitution, a misdemeanor,
and was sentenced to five days of community service.
 
Wow, thanks Fred & Edna!
So that is all four of the GB4 arrested.
So, the arrest was SEVEN Months before the sentence which was about three months before she disappeared. That is a long tie between an arrest such as that and the minimal sentence.
 
Wow, thanks Fred & Edna!
So that is all four of the GB4 arrested.
So, the arrest was SEVEN Months before the sentence which was about three months before she disappeared. That is a long tie between an arrest such as that and the minimal sentence.

I also thought the sentence was minimal (although I don't really know what is typical) and suspect she had an attorney not a public defender.
 
I also thought the sentence was minimal (although I don't really know what is typical) and suspect she had an attorney not a public defender.

First timer get almost always the minimum and the long time between arrest and sentencing doesn't make we wonder, seeing how long the backlogs of the courts are these days. So nothing unusual. Remember, Amber Lynn Costello was also set to appear in court (I think it was Amber) months after the arrest. Something with drugs, I have to look it up and pray, some links are still alive.
 
I have this...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-159991.html

Sep 12, 2008 Barthelemy arrest f. prostitution at 6th & W 46th in Manhattan.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...h-victims-1.2633910+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

According to the Manhattan district attorney's office, Barthelemy was arrested on
Sept. 12, 2008, at Sixth Avenue and West 46th Street on suspicion of prostitution.
In April 2009, she pleaded guilty to attempted prostitution, a misdemeanor,
and was sentenced to five days of community service.

the same block MBB was taken from
 
Has anyone thought about the logistics of fitting a non-dismembered adult into a burlap sack? I have always pictured a burlap sack to be the size of a bushel of clams. I don't know how large burlap bags come, but I have never seen one that would be easy to fit a non-dismembered adult in.

A little late in responding by a couple of years..lol
But from the first moment I heard about GB4 being in burlap sacks I thought the same thing right away. I haven't seen a burlap bag come up over my hips. Seems it would be hard to fit an adult woman into. I thought I had seen all the burlap bags there were from being on a farm but I guess I just assumed they could come in a bigger size.
 
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