VT VT - Lynne Kathryn Schulze, 18, Middlebury, 10 Dec 1971

[Mountain Mama]

I wonder who the Middlebury pediatrician and retired physics professor are, and why she mentioned them in what seems to me a slightly odd fashion?

“It was still in the 30’s and you needed some kind of covering normally, unless you happen to be a certain pediatrician in town or a certain retired professor of physics...”

The moment I saw ‘pediatrician’ I wondered again about whether Lynne was pregnant. It’s also possible that, as a minor herself in the months leading to her vanishing, that pediatrician could, I suppose, have been her doctor for any other issues. The ‘severe acne,’ for example?

Lynne’s father was at the time a renowned physicist in his field; just wondering about connections here.

Yes. Who was with Lynne in the restaurant? Was the author of the article suggesting that the certain pediatrician and the retired professor had custody of Lynne that night?

 

[dms]

I wonder who the Middlebury pediatrician and retired physics professor are, and why she mentioned them in what seems to me a slightly odd fashion?

“It was still in the 30’s and you needed some kind of covering normally, unless you happen to be a certain pediatrician in town or a certain retired professor of physics...”

I think the author was just adding a bit of local color.

 

[Zephyranth]

Anything's possible.

Nonetheless, the author depicts three people in her story as standing out for their habit of underdressing: the Middlebury pediatrician, a retired professor of physics, and now this girl.

She implies that these particular men routinely don't wear coats, and then specifies that Lynne (or whoever this girl is) said it was a "far warmer day out than people realize," and that she had a coat at home. We must keep in mind that Celine saw this girl on Monday, January 24, at which point Lynne had been missing for almost 6 weeks (where was "home" at this point if she was "holed up" somewhere, as Celine felt she might be?)

I feel, personally, like the writer may be creating a clumsy (purposefully clumsy?) reason to mention these men. Worth following up on, at any rate.

A little more info on the Robbins Crossroad property - it used to be referred to as the "Charlie Miller cabin" (as well as the Charlie Miller camp?) Charlie Miller was rumored to have done concrete block foundation work in town, and his 1-acre Ripton parcel was once part of the Grace [family] farm.

This may be an Alfred Grace, whose family has a long history in Ripton (he's often mentioned along with a Dragon family, who seem also to have a lengthy history in Ripton).

Here's a citation from a September, 1927 newspaper article mentioning the farm (see attached file):

Burlington Free Press, September 15, 1927: "RIPTON: Soldiers of 5th Infantry Camp on Alfred Grace Farm."

 

[carbuff]

Cabin and camp are more or less synonyms. Camp tends to imply a second or summer place for someone who lives mainly in the city.

Rich folk will refer to 20-room mansions as "my camp in the mountains."

 

[Mysteries1974]

Anything's possible.

Nonetheless, the author depicts three people in her story as standing out for their habit of underdressing: the Middlebury pediatrician, a retired professor of physics, and now this girl.

She implies that these particular men routinely don't wear coats, and then specifies that Lynne (or whoever this girl is) said it was a "far warmer day out than people realize," and that she had a coat at home. We must keep in mind that Celine saw this girl on Monday, January 24, at which point Lynne had been missing for almost 6 weeks (where was "home" at this point if she was "holed up" somewhere, as Celine felt she might be?)

I feel, personally, like the writer may be creating a clumsy (purposefully clumsy?) reason to mention these men. Worth following up on, at any rate.

A little more info on the Robbins Crossroad property - it used to be referred to as the "Charlie Miller cabin" (as well as the Charlie Miller camp?) Charlie Miller was rumored to have done concrete block foundation work in town, and his 1-acre Ripton parcel was once part of the Grace [family] farm.

This may be an Alfred Grace, whose family has a long history in Ripton (he's often mentioned along with a Dragon family, who seem also to have a lengthy history in Ripton).

Here's a citation from a September, 1927 newspaper article mentioning the farm (see attached file):

Burlington Free Press, September 15, 1927: "RIPTON: Soldiers of 5th Infantry Camp on Alfred Grace Farm."

I asked many people including Meaghan Good who owns and operates the Charley project what they think Lynne’s true fate was. Many said they think Durst abducted and killed Lynne. I think Durst was involved and that Lynne met her demise on the ripton property.

 

[Zephyranth]

In 1971-2, the Vilners' single-story dwelling looked nothing like the current structure; trying to get a photo of the older house to include here.

By some accounts, the police searched the property in 2014; by other accounts, 2015.

On a side note, do any locals here recognize the names McDougal or Dragon?

 

[Zephyranth]

Here's an excellent older map of Ripton Township, 1871.

It's fascinating to note features and properties (schools, cemeteries, etc.) which are still visible on today's Google map.

One interesting thing to me about the old map is how many properties are listed by a woman's name--Mrs. Ditrich, Mrs. King, Miss Platt--I wonder what that's all about. I guess it could be a civil war legacy, perhaps (the husbands were gone?) Or was Ripton an early leader in women's rights?

 

[Mysteries1974]

Here's an excellent older map of Ripton Township, 1871.

It's fascinating to note features and properties (schools, cemeteries, etc.) which are still visible on today's Google map.

One interesting thing to me about the old map is how many properties are listed by a woman's name--Mrs. Ditrich, Mrs. King, Miss Platt--I wonder what that's all about. I guess it could be a civil war legacy, perhaps (the husbands were gone?) Or was Ripton an early leader in women's rights?

We need to pinpoint where Lynne is likely buried.

 

[Zephyranth]

Here's the rough location of the property we've been talking about - in theory this should be where the old Grace Farm/Charlie Miller cabin was. Note the Robbins family properties in the area.

 

[Mysteries1974]

Today marks 47 years since Lynne Schulzes disappearance

 

[Zephyranth]

Today marks 47 years since Lynne Schulzes disappearance

Oh goodness - thank you Mysteries1974! Can't believe I let that go by. Thank you for commemorating. Here's hoping for progress on Lynne's case in the new year!

 

[Mysteries1974]

Oh goodness - thank you Mysteries1974! Can't believe I let that go by. Thank you for commemorating. Here's hoping for progress on Lynne's case in the new year!

Your very welcome! I hope it’s solved before the 50th anniversary!

 

[Mountaingazer]

In 1971-2, the Vilners' single-story dwelling looked nothing like the current structure; trying to get a photo of the older house to include here.

By some accounts, the police searched the property in 2014; by other accounts, 2015.

On a side note, do any locals here recognize the names McDougal or Dragon?

McDougal (sometimes MacDougal) and Dragon are pretty common surnames in this area, a number of extended families with that last name.

 

[Mountaingazer]

I am a local and grew up with Paula's children. I firmly believe Durst and Israel (and possibly Vilner) were jointly responsible for the death of Lynne. I also believe Paula was likely the one who made the report in 2014. Just because they are married, do not assume there has been any love or camaraderie in that marriage for a very long time.

 

[Mysteries1974]

I am a local and grew up with Paula's children. I firmly believe Durst and Israel (and possibly Vilner) were jointly responsible for the death of Lynne. I also believe Paula was likely the one who made the report in 2014. Just because they are married, do not assume there has been any love or camaraderie in that marriage for a very long time.

Are there any areas these three often visited? An area that they could’ve hidden Lynne’s remains

 

[Zephyranth]

I am a local and grew up with Paula's children. I firmly believe Durst and Israel (and possibly Vilner) were jointly responsible for the death of Lynne. I also believe Paula was likely the one who made the report in 2014. Just because they are married, do not assume there has been any love or camaraderie in that marriage for a very long time.

Yikes.

Do you think it was accidental, or due to a pregnancy (or something else entirely)?

 

[Zephyranth]

I initially doubted Celine Slator's (potential) sighting of Lynne, but that was before I read her full editorial as opposed to an excerpt. It rang awfully true. And, of course, she herself said it could have been another girl--but she also said that when she saw Lynne's photo for the first time, it hit her in the gut as the ailing girl she'd seen days before.

Just freewheeling here, but...if that girl was physically miserable, yet seemingly didn't have a cold or fever (she said she didn't need a jacket), one guess is morning sickness or--what's nagging at me harder--an abortion (or abortion-inducing medication) gone wrong. There were wrongful death suits pending at that time for other women who'd died after receiving such a med.

Anyway, that's the picture that formed in my mind after reading Slator's account. We should try to discover whether this girl was living upstairs or near the restaurant building, for example; maybe recuperating there from an abortion performed in Middlebury?

And, again, why did Slator invoke the retired physics professor? Vilner, Israel (and allegedly Durst, though I still question whether or not he was actually in the region, to be honest) used to play poker with "several Middlebury professors." Of course, in a college town, professors were probably everywhere--but Slator mentioned a professor and a pediatrician in the same breath, and it seemed purposeful to me in its awkwardness.

If in fact Durst really took a trip back to Middlebury in 1976 (the year his wife was allegedly forced to have an abortion, incidentally), or whether that "trip" was Israel's way of trying to account for another misdeed by blaming it on Durst, could it be that another body needed to be buried? And, based on the success to date of the first body not having been discovered, Ripton was considered a good spot?

The info on that trip comes from Paula (in one case, at least); what is she trying to say? It seems odd to purposely associate yourself further with a serial killer, if you don't have to. She wouldn't have had to mention that 1976 visit, for example, nor to use the present tense when saying Allen "knows" Durst.

If in fact Kathy Durst was forced by Robert to abort in 1976, as she has stated, how far along was she--is there any chance it was an ad hoc abortion?

I just feel like there's something bad that happened in Middlebury/Ripton in 1976, whether it's an actual return by Durst, or someone else's crime that year being blamed on Durst.

It sure seems to me that the police would do well to devote some resources to a serious search grid at the Robbins Crossroad place. I know the national forest itself is a preposterously difficult area, too, but my God--if there are potentially multiple bodies there, it seems it ought to be done.

Also, we know that police have at least something to go on--some witness statement, perhaps--given that, without further explanation to the public, they seem certain Lynne died or was buried somewhere in that area.

 

[Zephyranth]

By ad hoc abortion I mean to ask whether it was basically a murderous termination of a late-term pregnancy.

EDIT: This is just a wild thought, but would there be a DNA need to posit Lynne's and Kathy's pregnancies being related? I don't even know where I'm going with this--just a weird thought that maybe the '76 trip was necessary (either genuinely, or as a cover story) for some forensic reason.

Let's say AI is worried, for example, about remains being genetically connected to him (this would mean a baby). How does "Durst returning in 1976" get him off of a hook? Just brainstorming.

I continue to have this abiding sense that "Durst the serial killer" is being used as a panicked explanation for someone else's crimes.

And would PI, herself, have incentive to worry about culpability (as a witness or someone knowledgeable), such that she'd need to start distancing herself from her husband's past?

 

[Mysteries1974]

By ad hoc abortion I mean to ask whether it was basically a murderous termination of a late-term pregnancy.

EDIT: This is just a wild thought, but would there be a DNA need to posit Lynne's and Kathy's pregnancies being related? I don't even know where I'm going with this--just a weird thought that maybe the '76 trip was necessary (either genuinely, or as a cover story) for some forensic reason.

Let's say AI is worried, for example, about remains being genetically connected to him (this would mean a baby). How does "Durst returning in 1976" get him off of a hook? Just brainstorming.

I continue to have this abiding sense that "Durst the serial killer" is being used as a panicked explanation for someone else's crimes.

And would PI, herself, have incentive to worry about culpability (as a witness or someone knowledgeable), such that she'd need to start distancing herself from her husband's past?

Sadly Lynne doesn’t have DNA in the database

 

[carbuff]

Nobody would have been worrying about DNA in 1976. It wasn't a thing until the late 1980s.