Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #5

[Stripehaven]

Ted Bundy.

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Ted Bundy could never really hold a job. But Gary Ridgeway did.

 

[kammiemc]

Ted Bundy could never really hold a job. But Gary Ridgeway did.

Hmmm. I recently read that book about him The Stranger Beside Me, written by a woman, Ann Rule, who worked beside him at a job at a crisis hotline no less. He also worked at a utility company down by Olympia. And he worked in some respect for a politician, who wrote him a letter of reco for law school in Utah. He called in sick to the utility company after three women were murdered and his co-workers teased him about it being him, because they thought the idea was so laughable!


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[Stripehaven]

Not if he was trying to get to work on time. If it was a commuter who did this they would have made sure to get to work as close to their normal time as usual in order to secure a good alibi.

Plus an old car like that has tons of DNA in it anyway. Are they able to distinguish old(er) from new(er) DNA?

But why take the risk? Especially because, where her car was found, it would have been completely possible for another driver or resident to have noticed an altercation. Bring the car back to the same point and possibly be seen again? Risky.

Also this person would probably already have been way late if they were headed to work. Why not just call in sick? or commit your crime with a bigger window of time around you?

Anything is possible but every scenario we have come up with has, to me, at least one really risky element. I personally think someone targeted her as she sat texting inner car. Some kind of impulse. But a visible setting. I do not think her car was used and returned.

 

[DatelineFan]

Yes, there are at least two mosques in the area. One is at 5507 238th St SW in Mountlake Terrace, the other borders Mountlake Terrace in a town named Shoreline, at 20004 24th Ave NE. There is a Section 8 apartment complex near the latter, and the majority of residents in this complex are Muslim. Also, in the strip mall near where Cheryl's car was found, there is a small Muslim grocery, Paradise Market.

How is this relevant?

 

[JanetElaine]

But why take the risk? Especially because, where her car was found, it would have been completely possible for another driver or resident to have noticed an altercation. Bring the car back to the same point and possibly be seen again? Risky.

Also this person would probably already have been way late if they were headed to work. Why not just call in sick? or commit your crime with a bigger window of time around you?

Anything is possible but every scenario we have come up with has, to me, at least one really risky element. I personally think someone targeted her as she sat texting inner car. Some kind of impulse. But a visible setting. I do not think her car was used and returned.

Well, I doubt that when we find out what happened (I SO hope we will, for the family's sake) that it was a completely risk free operation.

If another person noticed an altercation, first off, the reaction of most people is to ignore and not get involved. Even if they noticed and paid attention, chances that they'd still be around some 15 minutes later are slim. All they would have seen was a car driving off. They didn't know the car would be back. But I'm not convinced the average person on their way to work pays attention to a very minor altercation like that.
Also the person might not have had an option. He had to get back there to get to work or he'd blow his alibi.

I'm not seeing why they would already have been way late for work? They could be, but not necessarily. Calling in sick would make them an instant suspect if details were added up - much riskier than showing up a few minutes late and making up a lame excuse about your commute. Also some people don't have a set starting time.

If it was someone who got mad at Cheryl, there was no planning involved. You're assuming this was planned. That doesn't have to be the case. Things got out of hand and they had to cover up.

:cow:

 

[Beesknees]

This triangle makes my head spin! From here to there. How?!



(click to enlarge)

 

[Treelights]

Stryker said that she was absent-minded or misplaced her badge frequently. I don't think the badge has anything to do with the story aside from the fact that she said she forgot it. If there was an abduction, then it would have happened right then on 58th. Well, highly likely it happened then.

I was responding to what the poster mentioned, and I didn't understand THEIR viewpoint on it, so I wanted them to elaborate further of their opinion as I wasn't following what made them come up with their opinion.

IMOO.

 

[Treelights]

This triangle makes my head spin! From here to there. How?!

View attachment 90849

(click to enlarge)

In a previous post you mentioned that you didn't think that perhaps Cheryl sent those texts. If that is the case, then who would have known about her badge, other than Cheryl? Do you think that Cheryl told someone and they sent that text? I was wondering your opinions from your previous post.

IMOO.

 

[anonymess]

Has there been any word about if the car ever had problems? Engine not starting/brakes noisy/gas leaks etc.? Just trying to brainstorm scenarios.

 

[Treelights]

A road rage? Someone refferred it some posts behind.

No, makes no sense at all. Cheryl was a 53 yo woman. I know by experience that people is much more tolerant to us when we are this age. The young ones have some respect. The ones that are our age too respect us.

Cheryl was not a pedantic arrogante person that could drive someone mad at her. I think that someone who could approach her inside her car with the intent of having a go at that driver would tame down after seeing her!

Neither road rage, nor a robery going bad, not a heart attack or any sudden ilness. Nothing to me points to it.

In my opinion Cheyl was never that morning at the spot her car was found and it wasn't her who wrote those texts.

I too think her phone was only needed to justify her absence in the carpool and also to ping at the zone she would be at that time. After this it was powered down in order to stop pinging and also because the perp didn't want to have to be dealing with her colleague with more back and forth texts. The more they wrote the more the carpool colleague could see something was fishy about those texts. The important was only to let the carpool know that she would go home because of the badge and then it was switched off and the car was parked to be found later.

I tend to believe she was already in that culvert or was put there later night.

This is the post that I responded to earlier.
Why do you think that Cheryl did not send those texts?
Why do you think Cheryl was not in the spot that her car was found?

Cheryl's badge was at home.
Who else would have known her badge was not at home?
This is where I am not following you or understanding your post.
Can you elaborate further?
Thanks!

IMOO.

Also I would like to add that my husband and I are older and there have been instances of other IMPATIENT drivers acting out on us!!! So, age has NO consideration with road rage or impatient people on the road. In My Opinion.

 

[Stripehaven]

Hmmm. I recently read that book about him The Stranger Beside Me, written by a woman, Ann Rule, who worked beside him at a job at a crisis hotline no less. He also worked at a utility company down by Olympia. And he worked in some respect for a politician, who wrote him a letter of reco for law school in Utah. He called in sick to the utility company after three women were murdered and his co-workers teased him about it being him, because they thought the idea was so laughable!


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You're right - my wording was bad. He held a series of jobs. But he jumped around quite a bit from one thing to another. I thought he displayed more disordered thinking and actions in his employment than was apparently the case. I am not trying to sound like a Bundy expert but I was living in Seattle and in his target demographic in 1974, so once he was captured, I read about him a lot. I didn't get this quite right.

Ridgeway, on the other hand, had the same job for ages and presented to the outside world as stable, though his coworkers found him weird enough to dub him Green River Gary.

This went off topic. Obliquely, I was trying to say that a person who would perpetrate this horrible crime against Cheryl may or may not have needed to get to work that day.

 

[Beesknees]

This is the post that I responded to earlier.
Why do you think that Cheryl did not send those texts?
Why do you think Cheryl was not in the spot that her car was found?

Cheryl's badge was at home.
Who else would have known her badge was not at home?
This is where I am not following you or understanding your post.
Can you elaborate further?
Thanks!

IMOO.

Also I would like to add that my husband and I are older and there have been instances of other IMPATIENT drivers acting out on us!!! So, age has NO consideration with road rage or impatient people on the road. In My Opinion.

Sorry saw your questions now.

My experience tells me that as we grow older we are not imune to others being impatient at us or even angry for a motive, but what I see is that both we get more tolerant as we age and others see us with more kindness. They can still be 'mad' at us but... assault or be phisically violent to a 53 yo woman? A man would do this? Another woman would do this? And kill the person? Mainly knowing as we know the person was neither provokative nor arrogante or rude? No, I don''t think so.

As for the discussion badge/texts/staged scenario, I honestly don't know how to elaborate because I always reach a point in my thoughts about this where I don't know where to go or I can't go on because I don't know how to go on.

There are always interrogations and doubts, but this has (for me) characteristics NOT to be random, to have been very well thought and prepared (staged) and of course if it was so, it had to be by someone close to Cheryl that had to know about her routines and timelines.

I think a random perp would never hide Cheryl where she was found. They would leave her where she was assaulted or, if they wanted to take her for any motive then they would hide her far away. It also appears to me that any perp would put her in that culvert at that hour of the morning. No way imo. So, or CCheryl was there before or she was put there by night that day or in days after. If she was hidden in another place, why would they go and put her there when they had forests or fields or lakes or rivers where she could be better hidden?

Even being targeted, to appear in that culvert would always be strange for the proximity of her usual places. Not so strange if something happened and the time was short and she really had to be quickly hidden.

 

[Stripehaven]

Well, I doubt that when we find out what happened (I SO hope we will, for the family's sake) that it was a completely risk free operation.

If another person noticed an altercation, first off, the reaction of most people is to ignore and not get involved. Even if they noticed and paid attention, chances that they'd still be around some 15 minutes later are slim. All they would have seen was a car driving off. They didn't know the car would be back. But I'm not convinced the average person on their way to work pays attention to a very minor altercation like that.
Also the person might not have had an option. He had to get back there to get to work or he'd blow his alibi.

I'm not seeing why they would already have been way late for work? They could be, but not necessarily. Calling in sick would make them an instant suspect if details were added up - much riskier than showing up a few minutes late and making up a lame excuse about your commute. Also some people don't have a set starting time.

If it was someone who got mad at Cheryl, there was no planning involved. You're assuming this was planned. That doesn't have to be the case. Things got out of hand and they had to cover up.

:cow:

I don't know if I think it was planned or not. In either case, the abduction apparently went down on a well-traveled, mostly residential street with IMO any number of possible witnesses at that time of day. IMO it would be risky to return the car, not knowing who might have seen the abduction. If the perp was seen returning, a 911 call would get an instant response, since the police station is basically right there.

And maybe a witness to an altercation would have turned away. (I don't know that I agree.) But later, when Cheryl was reported missing, any existing witness probably would have had a revelation. Especially if they had seen the perp return the car. Yes, other commuters would have been gone by them, but what about the many residents who live on that street? The perp couldn't know he had not been seen. Whether planned or not, I believe CD's car was not used.

The more I consider it, I think this is especially true if the perp needed to get to work - much quicker to use his own car, then hit the road via 244th St, which leads right to I-5.

 

[JanetElaine]

Sorry saw your questions now.

My experience tells me that as we grow older we are not imune to others being impatient at us or even angry for a motive, but what I see is that both we get more tolerant as we age and others see us with more kindness. They can still be 'mad' at us but... assault or be phisically violent to a 53 yo woman? A man would do this? Another woman would do this? And kill the person? Mainly knowing as we know the person was neither provokative nor arrogante or rude? No, I don''t think so.

sbm

Maybe I should move to Portugal. lol (And I mean this in the most positive way, and not in any way as veiled sarcasm or whatever). I wish things were the way you described, but unfortunately, yes, people would most definitely be physically violent against a 53 year old woman, even one who wasn't provocative or rude. It's a crying shame.

(Btw I did visit Portugal on several occasions, Praia d'Oura, Algarve, area - it was absolutely gorgeous there and very friendly, and it's been way too long since I've been there).

 

[kammiemc]

You're right - my wording was bad. He held a series of jobs. But he jumped around quite a bit from one thing to another. I thought he displayed more disordered thinking and actions in his employment than was apparently the case. I am not trying to sound like a Bundy expert but I was living in Seattle and in his target demographic in 1974, so once he was captured, I read about him a lot. I didn't get this quite right.

Ridgeway, on the other hand, had the same job for ages and presented to the outside world as stable, though his coworkers found him weird enough to dub him Green River Gary.

This went off topic. Obliquely, I was trying to say that a person who would perpetrate this horrible crime against Cheryl may or may not have needed to get to work that day.

I think he did jump around a bit, and then eventually imploded. And to your point, he did call in sick after murdering three women in one weekend.


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[Treelights]

Sorry saw your questions now.

My experience tells me that as we grow older we are not imune to others being impatient at us or even angry for a motive, but what I see is that both we get more tolerant as we age and others see us with more kindness. They can still be 'mad' at us but... assault or be phisically violent to a 53 yo woman? A man would do this? Another woman would do this? And kill the person? Mainly knowing as we know the person was neither provokative nor arrogante or rude? No, I don''t think so.

As for the discussion badge/texts/staged scenario, I honestly don't know how to elaborate because I always reach a point in my thoughts about this where I don't know where to go or I can't go on because I don't know how to go on.

There are always interrogations and doubts, but this has (for me) characteristics NOT to be random, to have been very well thought and prepared (staged) and of course if it was so, it had to be by someone close to Cheryl that had to know about her routines and timelines.

I think a random perp would never hide Cheryl where she was found. They would leave her where she was assaulted or, if they wanted to take her for any motive then they would hide her far away. It also appears to me that any perp would put her in that culvert at that hour of the morning. No way imo. So, or CCheryl was there before or she was put there by night that day or in days after. If she was hidden in another place, why would they go and put her there when they had forests or fields or lakes or rivers where she could be better hidden?

Even being targeted, to appear in that culvert would always be strange for the proximity of her usual places. Not so strange if something happened and the time was short and she really had to be quickly hidden.

A bit off topic:
Yes. People do kill nice people of All ages.

Your post reminded me of the woman burned and her body and car found on Gold Camp road. She was 87 years old. She was a NICE LADY.

http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/...omicide_Investigators_On_Scene_134386358.html

Also:

"Smith is accused of breaking into the home of Kathryn "Kit" Grazioli, strangling her in her bedroom and setting her body on fire at a trailhead on Gold Camp Road."
http://gazette.com/courts-roundup-c...-colorado-springs-murder-case/article/1539722

IMOO.

 

[JanetElaine]

I don't know if I think it was planned or not. In either case, the abduction apparently went down on a well-traveled, mostly residential street with IMO any number of possible witnesses at that time of day. IMO it would be risky to return the car, not knowing who might have seen the abduction. If the perp was seen returning, a 911 call would get an instant response, since the police station is basically right there.

And maybe a witness to an altercation would have turned away. (I don't know that I agree.) But later, when Cheryl was reported missing, any existing witness probably would have had a revelation. Especially if they had seen the perp return the car. Yes, other commuters would have been gone by them, but what about the many residents who live on that street? The perp couldn't know he had not been seen. Whether planned or not, I believe CD's car was not used.

The more I consider it, I think this is especially true if the perp needed to get to work - much quicker to use his own car, then hit the road via 244th St, which leads right to I-5.

bbm

But in that case he'd have to move Cheryl from her car to his - that would draw a lot more attention than hopping in a car nobody knows isn't his. And it wouldn't be quicker either if he was a commuter and had to park there again... then he would run the risk of someone recognizing him and his own car as the one who carried of and drove off with an unconscious woman. AND he would never be able to park there again at the risk of someone remembering later and recognizing his own car.

No, he couldn't have known he wouldn't be seen - in any scenario involving the crime taking place on that street. So either someone took a planned, calculated risk to do something to Cheryl (rob, kidnap); or they took an impromptu risk trying to cover up something that happened more or less accidentally.

ETA after reading my own post, I guess that is why I'm leaning towards it having been something accidental, since it would take quite some guts to plan and carry out a crime in the middle of rush hour, on a street like that, near the police station... quite different from accidentally messing up and having to take a risk to 'fix it'.

 

[Beesknees]

One question - how many cases have we seen where a middle aged woman was killed and hidden by someone totally random? (don't Forget this didn't happen in a remote rural place, for exemple. This happened in a Monday morning when many persons were just doing the same Cheryl was - going to work along those same streets.

Please, be aware of the details of this victim:

- didn't do drugs

- didn't engage in unproper behaviours (affairs, multiple partners, mix with wrong people, living from schemes, etc)

- More than a job, she had a profession.

- Had a stable life, was a wife and a mother. Always family oriented.

- Was loved and cared by the ones who knew her and she too was a loving person.

I think the list could go on and on. How many cases like this have we seen where a victim with these characteristics was killed randomly and disposed of?

What I see is persons like Cheryl who can be victims of robbery, assaulted, even killed if the thing turns bad, but they are left there in the place of the crime while the perp runs away.

Here in WS, the vast majority of crimes we see like this, where a victim is killed and dumped in another place (most of times the car is found while the victim is still missing), it is perpetrated by someone very close to the victim: partner, husband, lover, or any other members of the familly who had previous problems with the victim. Or then, after the family, a neighbour, or a colleague.

 

[mrsgladyskravitz]

Yes, there are at least two mosques in the area. One is at 5507 238th St SW in Mountlake Terrace, the other borders Mountlake Terrace in a town named Shoreline, at 20004 24th Ave NE. There is a Section 8 apartment complex near the latter, and the majority of residents in this complex are Muslim. Also, in the strip mall near where Cheryl's car was found, there is a small Muslim grocery, Paradise Market.

There is also a Catholic church up the street, a Mormon Church on 48th Ave W, U.S.P.S. in the same strip mall, a pie shop, a great restaurant/pub, a bank, an 80 bed assisted living facility (on the corner of 58th Ave W and 234th St SW).

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[Treelights]

One question - how many cases have we seen where a middle aged woman was killed and hidden by someone totally random? (don't Forget this didn't happen in a remote rural place, for exemple. This happened in a Monday morning when many persons were just doing the same Cheryl was - going to work along those same streets.

Please, be aware of the details of this victim:

- didn't do drugs

- didn't engage in unproper behaviours (affairs, multiple partners, mix with wrong people, living from schemes, etc)

- More than a job, she had a profession.

- Had a stable life, was a wife and a mother. Always family oriented.

- Was loved and cared by the ones who knew her and she too was a loving person.

I think the list could go on and on. How many cases like this have we seen where a victim with these characteristics was killed randomly and disposed of?

What I see is persons like Cheryl who can be victims of robbery, assaulted, even killed if the thing turns bad, but they are left there in the place of the crime while the perp runs away.

Here in WS, the vast majority of crimes we see like this, where a victim is killed and dumped in another place (most of times the car is found while the victim is still missing), it is perpetrated by someone very close to the victim: partner, husband, lover, or any other members of the familly who had previous problems with the victim. Or then, after the family, a neighbour, or a colleague.

In the case I just mentioned:

"I imagine he didn?t know her and saw her as vulnerable. She was an elderly woman living alone,? said Dierdorf."

(I don't know why this has question marks in this article that I quoted from.)

http://www.krdo.com/news/Friends-Upset-By-News-Of-Murdered-Grandmother/14817324