Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #6

[gladyskravitsinvest]

I still have the following question's. I'am not going with Suicide My family member took their life and left a ten page letter.
The Time of Death?
Were the glasses not broken?
Box Knife Razor I only associate with when I held jobs in Fast food and drug store to open boxes.
But why in the pocket? Staged in my opinion.
Wallet and Cell phone Missing?
Were her shoes on?
If she fell into water would she not have a bruise (s) on face or contact to body after falling?
Animal Blood is odd to me in my opinion, But thinking back to the initial report on the day she was found, Why was the Animal Control at the scene? My thought was a wild animal had gotten to the body. But also thought I heard in the initial reports that she was found in grassy area of a culvert?
By pictures I thought was fully fenced on East side. A picture in the past few days I thought it appeared anyone could walk on grass around fence?
I also assumed people walk dogs in that area? I would think if she had been there long they would have smelt or alerted owner?
What book was found in car?
Why were the doors locked?
I also feel this was planned and that it is someone close to her. IE knows her routine. I do not think the car moved and in the beginning I did not feel she ever arrived in that car on that street.

These are all just my thought's due too I watch crime shows and wished I'd gone into PI work. I send my condolences to her Family and Friends. Just my thought's and opinions.

 

[PLT]

I think we have 1000 people here that are living proof that people don't just mind their own business If one of us busy bodies had noticed her we would have probably video'd it ourselves. There are numerous ways to walk to the culvert from 58th. Main road with lots of traffic, cameras and mostly sidewalks and residential neighborhoods with no sidewalks. Most folks walking through those neighborhoods at that time would most likely be walking west not east. west is where all of the community transit, stores and activity are. Would be a little curious to see someone walking toward the east where there are just houses and apartment complexes.

I am admittedly a busy body. Not to the point where I'm going to ask a million questions of neighbors and acquaintances and poke into their private business....but if I see someone pulled over on a highway and then someone else pulls up who they appear not to know....it sticks in my mind until I find myself pulling off at the next exit to go back and make sure all is well (it happened) - or making sure an unmarked car stopping someone is really LE. I will loop around playgrounds if I see someone sitting in a car watching and/or call it in. I'm sure some would call this paranoia - or whatever but I would feel awful if those situations ended up in tragedy and I could have done something. We call can use extra eyes and I so wish I was able to do more here.

 

[ANZAC]

ANZAC, I REALLY value your very obviously experienced and informed POV. I think your insight would be valued on other threads on WS as well. I hope you will consider becoming a verified expert! I believe you can still totally remain anonymous, but it would be pretty cool for you to be able to say what you are saying without having people challenge you because they don't get your experience and knowledge (and so guess that you have an agenda, etc.)
Anyway! Hope you will. And hope you stick around, regardless.

I got over my fear of losing anonymity and got verified today. Thank you!

 

[PLT]

The way I am reading the article is that at 7:02 CD texted, friend texted back, she texted back it will take 10 minutes to go get the badge. At 7:30 carpooler texted back and phone was powered off. Reads to me that is somewhere between 7:02-3 and 7:30 the phone was powered off? Were there later details that I am forgetting?

I don't believe you are forgetting anything and that is the timeframe I have in memory.

 

[PLT]

I got over my fear of losing anonymity and got verified today. Thank you!

Awesome, if I go missing I am going to tell my family to contact you for sure. : >

 

[ANZAC]

Finding the phone may be the clue that helps distinguish between murder and suicide. For example, if her phone is found along a walking route between her car and her body, that goes to suicide. However, if her phone is found at a third location that is not enroute between those two locations, it would support murder.

Sometimes items are stolen from corpses. We see it a lot.

We found someone's jawbone on the dash of a car. Clearly they didn't die there, someone moved it.

I am reading between the lines a bit on what they've said publicly about the phone, I have a feeling more will come out.

 

[cs2012]

Curious to where we can see them searching (searching what) with no gloves on. Do you have a link?

Crap, i shouldve quoted, sorry. It was from a few pages before that comment of mine, someone posted about it including photos of searchers.

 

[PLT]

It's not that doubtful, so don't be too hard on yourself. I'm a little bit younger than Cheryl and I've had to switch up my contacts/glasses routine. I can either wear contacts, and use cheaters (reading glasses), or use glasses instead of contacts (distance), and then I don't need reading glasses, just my own eyes (that was harder to describe than I thought). I've chosen the latter.

So when I text or am otherwise on my phone I either push the glasses up on my head or take them off and fold them and put them in my pocket or purse (which I prefer and most often do).

FWIW and :cow:

If it were raining that morning - would she remove them just to prevent them from getting wet and being blurred especially if she didn't need them for distance? Not sure myself because it's been ages since I've worn glasses but my husband sometimes takes his off if they are getting wet or fogging up (going from cold to warm).

 

[DanceCard]

I got over my fear of losing anonymity and got verified today. Thank you!

I'm glad that you did!

 

[Eileen730]

I got over my fear of losing anonymity and got verified today. Thank you!

Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

 

[Mamamerced]

Do any of you fellow WSers know of any other case(s) where a person commited suicide with a loosely tied (thin?) plastic bag with no accompanying drugs? To die of carbon monoxide poisoning, wouldn't the bag have to be tied or taped securely? Or could it possibly have come loose after time in moving water? As to water pressure holding the plastic over the mouth and nostrils, wouldn't the life preservation reflex kick in to rip off the flimsy bag?
This is the issue holding me up from accepting the suicide theory.

 

[ANZAC]

Brand-new armchair detective here with 20+ years of experience watching Law & Order and a fascination

Now that I'm verified I will pontificate briefly: I love L&O, Morse, NCIS, Columbo *BUT* you have to understand they are fun theatrical productions that bear no relationship to real life. One of our mitochondrial DNA tests took 7 years to get a result!!

The ABSOLUTELY best crime show on TV is First 48. I do like forensic files but it presents a forensics first view of crimes rather than a process first view like First 48. Every detective I work with is a big fan of First 48 because it really does reflect the reality of the process. There are seldom leaps of insight, they run down every lead until it ends. First 48 also shows the toughest part of the job, the death notifications. I've been nearby for too many and I absolutely cannot imagine doing it myself.

If you want to learn about the process by observing -- First 48. I personally would skip forensic files. I do watch it but I think it presents a slightly distorted view from a minority of cases. The one note I would make is because of the TV shows, juries now expect rock solid forensic evidence (which does not always materialize due to weather etc.)

 

[WhisperWorm]

I had asked the same thing about the gloves. I had seen a image of three or more searchers in red jackets standing at the culvert with no gloves. Someone here posted the photo. I dont know who.

Oh, I posted that picture! Anzac verified that those 3 people were trackers. I don't know that they actually touch evidence, but I'm thinking that they don't.

I got over my fear of losing anonymity and got verified today. Thank you!

Very happy that you did this! Congrats!

 

[grillzgirl]

I would like to now how much decomp occurs if you have been deceased for a week in a pool of cold water ? How can they tell what killed her, I would expect there would be all the things that happen to the body after death which might be destroyed...???

03-21-2016, 08:25 PM

#684​

stryker57

• View Profile
• View Forum Posts
• Private Message
• View Blog Entries
• Add as Contact

Verified family member DeBoer case

Join DateFeb 2016Posts74​

Originally Posted by Eileen730

I would.like to know how long they think she was in the culvert.



Based on what I know, and speaking with ME I am confident she was put there the morning she went missing.​

I have been to mortuary school and participated in a number of embalmings and restorations. While I am certainly no pathologist, I have had classes on decomp and observed bodies in a number of stages of decomp. A lot of factors contribute to the state of decomp when the deceased is found. In this case, it would depend upon how long she had been in the water, how cold the water was, etc. Based on what I have read so far about the climate of her location, she would most likely be well preserved in spite of the water. Suffocation would lead to petechial hemorrhaging in her eyes, skin, etc. They also said water was found in her lungs. Both of these would show the pathologist a cause of death.

 

[ANZAC]

And I too, have had my own experience with family suicide.
It is shocking, its shocking because it blindsides you often.

To all the people who say suicide was not possible, read this ^^^^

It is very common. I have seen the look of shock on family's faces so many times because the internal pain, suffering, anguish is well hidden by people who are able to function day in and day out. Until they can't. I've also been in the same boat, but we were lucky enough to stop my daughter.

 

[Eileen730]

Do any of you fellow WSers know of any other case(s) where a person commited suicide with a loosely tied (thin?) plastic bag with no accompanying drugs? To die of carbon monoxide poisoning, wouldn't the bag have to be tied or taped securely? Or could it possibly have come loose after time in moving water? As to water pressure holding the plastic over the mouth and nostrils, wouldn't the life preservation reflex kick in to rip off the flimsy bag?
This is the issue holding me up from accepting the suicide theory.

I am not so sure all the tox results are in.
maybe the prelim are
are there poisons that can not be detected

 

[cs2012]

I still have the following question's. I'am not going with Suicide My family member took their life and left a ten page letter.
The Time of Death?
Were the glasses not broken?
Box Knife Razor I only associate with when I held jobs in Fast food and drug store to open boxes.
But why in the pocket? Staged in my opinion.
Wallet and Cell phone Missing?
Were her shoes on?
If she fell into water would she not have a bruise (s) on face or contact to body after falling?
Animal Blood is odd to me in my opinion, But thinking back to the initial report on the day she was found, Why was the Animal Control at the scene? My thought was a wild animal had gotten to the body. But also thought I heard in the initial reports that she was found in grassy area of a culvert?
By pictures I thought was fully fenced on East side. A picture in the past few days I thought it appeared anyone could walk on grass around fence?
I also assumed people walk dogs in that area? I would think if she had been there long they would have smelt or alerted owner?
What book was found in car?
Why were the doors locked?
I also feel this was planned and that it is someone close to her. IE knows her routine. I do not think the car moved and in the beginning I did not feel she ever arrived in that car on that street.

These are all just my thought's due too I watch crime shows and wished I'd gone into PI work. I send my condolences to her Family and Friends. Just my thought's and opinions.

Who said box knife razor?

 

[marcyjoy]

Here's a potential scenario re: razor blade: She needs a razor blade to shave matted fur off her new cat. The only razor blades in her house are the handled disposable type that she shaves legs/arms with (and the handled type would be difficult to utilize for this kitty chore). Husband doesn't use a razor at all. Mentions to co-worker she needs just a razor blade and why. Co-worker brings one and CD puts in a pocket?? Maybe doesn't have time to use the razor on cat the weekend prior to 2/8 and forgets blade is in her pocket?

I think the razor blade is connected to the mats on the cat...and I think it is possible that the self inflicted wounds on her fingers could also be related. If she was piecing through and removing them, it is possible that her fingers on her hands could become sliced. Especially a shy cat that might be moving around. Just seems to me that that could make some sense.

I do not feel that the blood in the car is in any way related to the cat, though.

 

[ANZAC]

Eta: I lean towards the idea that the cuts are defensive wounds, or sustained during a struggle, but I am not privy to the information LE has as far as how they came to the conclusion that the cuts were self inflicted.

Sorry to be a broken record. Each state is slightly different, in WA, the medical examiner is the one who makes conclusions like that. LE deals with who, where, why...

 

[idfinch]

For those who think this must be murder, it is important to apply the same standards as to why you think it isn't suicide. I would ask the following questions:

- Do you think it would be possible to confront, lure and kill a woman and transport her body a mile and half away without leaving any physical evidence? There are no outward signs of struggle on the body, no defensive wounds, no indication that she fought or was overtaken in some way. Could a murderer be so sophisticated that they could accomplish this murder without leaving any trail?

- By the accounts of her family, this is a woman that has no issues. Everyone liked her, she was kind, loving and well adjusted. There are no reported issues with her husband or family. She adopts hard to adopt animals and is deeply cared for by those who know her. Those are the reasons that some would say she would not commit suicide,but by the same account, don't they apply to someone killing her intentionally?

I would be interested to understand from those who firmly believe that it is not suicide, how they answer the above questions. I waiver from day to day and the new info doesn't seem to firmly place any of us in one camp or the other.

As to the first, I think threatening a woman with a gun or knife (or razor blade!) and saying, "don't move & I won't hurt you" is so common it's almost cliche. People freeze in terror, especially if they're completely preoccupied and looking at their phone, in a hurry, thinking of several things at once.

The second - I think you're asking if all of those reasons are such that no one would want to murder her just as they'd be reason not to suicide? IMO Jealousy is a very strong motivation to hurt or kill. Jealousy of love life, jealousy of career, personality, friendships... The more someone succeeds, the more they radiate and people notice. Sometimes they get on the radar of mentally unstable or violent person who forms a vendetta. If it wasn't random, this would be my guess.