Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #6

[IMissCrossfit]

I have a slew of questions too, I want to know:

1.) who was the last person to see or talk to her the weekend before 2/8
2) who checked the home surveillance cam
3) how many other cams would her car pass and have they been checked
4) did she have even the slightest trouble with anyone at work or did she recently get promoted or demoted
5) I know Hutch has life insurance, did she buy up the policy ( has a max of 1 million)
7) why didnt the cops find her car before the hubby got to it and what did he do to the car before it was impounded
8) did the cops go to the park and ride on Feb. 9 to to ask questions
9) were all the residents on the street where the culvert is get interviewed

I could go on and on and this would take a lot of time that LE probably does not have, recent article says they need many more cops, they are understaffed big time

I am really curious about some of these too..

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[TTF14]

Ok, I don't know what a 'box knife' is so I didn't know that. (I'm British and as you know we don't always speak the same language, even though we do, if you get my drift!).

You could find a pic if you Google box cutter. I have one in my home, but have never had it in my pocket.

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[Master Gee]

A razor blade was found in DeBoer’s pocket. Yes a Razor Blade is what is used in a box knife.

Yellow thing is box cutter . Gray things are razor blades. They go in the box cutter. There are sever styles and varieties, They all work under the same basic principal.

 

[otto]

I have a slew of questions too, I want to know:

1.) who was the last person to see or talk to her the weekend before 2/8
2) who checked the home surveillance cam
3) how many other cams would her car pass and have they been checked
4) did she have even the slightest trouble with anyone at work or did she recently get promoted or demoted
5) I know Hutch has life insurance, did she buy up the policy ( has a max of 1 million)
7) why didnt the cops find her car before the hubby got to it and what did he do to the car before it was impounded
8) did the cops go to the park and ride on Feb. 9 to to ask questions
9) were all the residents on the street where the culvert is get interviewed

I could go on and on and this would take a lot of time that LE probably does not have, recent article says they need many more cops, they are understaffed big time

Police went to the Park and Ride because it was conceivable that she was abducted there, as that is where she met her carpool.

 

[DanceCard]

You could find a pic if you Google box cutter. I have one in my home, but have never had it in my pocket.

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Turns out we call it a Stanley Knife! Who knew!? I wouldn't call it a razor blade though, even though it has a blade within it. I think I assumed that LE meant Cheryl had just a blade, rather than the handle as well.

 

[otto]

Ok, I don't know what a 'box knife' is so I didn't know that. (I'm British and as you know we don't always speak the same language, even though we do, if you get my drift!).

A "box knife" is actually called a box cutter: a knife that is used to cut boxes open. It's also a weapon of choice on the 911 airplanes into the World Trade Towers.

She was carrying a razor blade in her pocket, which is clearly something different.

 

[otto]

To piggy back, do you know of any suicide cases involving bags over the head and no drugs?

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I researched drowning in shallow creeks, and drugs were always associated with suicide.

 

[Master Gee]

Our typical evidence search cases are: murder weapon thrown in the bushes (guns, knives, shell casings etc.) and human remains (partial or complete bodies). Sometimes we also look for things that are subject's effects (eg phone, wallet, jewelry, stolen items from house that kind of thing). Sometimes we are looking for items as small as teeth.

Anzac, any feeling on where her phone and wallet are? Stashed in a bush or under a log or picked up by a passerby? Worth looking for between 58th and the culvert?

 

[Eileen730]

We have an innate desire to breath, so it would be pretty much impossible for someone to place a plastic food take-out bag over one's head, lie down in a cold shallow drainage ditch, and not jump out pretty fast. To lie there until breathing stopped is absurd.

Thing is
holding the bag closed u breathe
you are not getting fresh air u are breathing your CO2 till eventually u pass out.
She probably passed out then drowned.

She was not trying to strangle herself with it
JMO


http://www.fluther.com/80772/while-you-are-breathing-into-the-plastic-bag-what-happens-to/

 

[grillzgirl]

Thank you for that info, I was wondering about that. I have a question. Since the ME listed both asphyxiation and drowning, would it be possible to die of asphyxiation and then have a week's worth of rushing water, and a loosely tied plastic bag filled with it, force water into her lungs post mortem? Or would she actually have to be breathing?

Also, would the petechial hemmoraging in her eyes be the same after the week of decomp, and would the amount seen in her eyes reflect the degree of suffocation/closeness to death before drowning began? Apologies if these are dumb or redundant questions.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/drowning.html This explains how water can get into the lungs postmortem.

I cannot answer the question in regards to time of death related to petichia. I am not sure about that.

 

[otto]

Yellow thing is box cutter . Gray things are razor blades. They go in the box cutter. There are sever styles and varieties, They all work under the same basic principal.

The box cutters I've used have a much longer blade and you snap it off as it becomes dull.

 

[Master Gee]

The box cutters I've used have a much longer blade and you snap it off as it becomes dull.

yep..same principle though..sharp thingy held in a handle.. used to cut stuff..

 

[TTF14]

Turns out we call it a Stanley Knife! Who knew!? I wouldn't call it a razor blade though, even though it has a blade within it. I think I assumed that LE meant Cheryl had just a blade, rather than the handle as well.

Well, we don't know. The did just say razor blade, which is just super odd to me.

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[Yvettea]

ME can determine whether water in the lungs caused downing or is postmortem.

 

[otto]

Thing is
holding the bag closed u breathe
you are not getting fresh air u are breathing your CO2 till eventually u pass out.
She probably passed out then drowned.

She was not trying to strangle herself with it
JMO


http://www.fluther.com/80772/while-you-are-breathing-into-the-plastic-bag-what-happens-to/

She wanted to die by carbon dioxide poisoning? I know nothing about it. Is it better than carbon monoxide poisoning by sitting in a running car in a closed garage? Why is it preferable to be in a 2-3 foot deep creek while doing this? Clearly she didn't enter the creek after she passed out, so she had to get into the 2-3 foot deep cold water before she died by take-out bag over head & carbon dioxide poisoning. Does that make sense? Do people actually do that to commit suicide?

 

[ANZAC]

ANZAC, not sure if you're interested or even can, but if so, could you speculate and detail what the story would be to the public in LE's perspective if it they are leaning toward suicide? Eg. CD pulls the car over on 58th..etc. test cuts her fingers, bag over head, into the water...etc. found in the culvert.. How they may think the whole suicide went down...

Well I don't know precisely what MLT PD is thinking, I did previously post 3 suicide scenarios that fit the same timeline. Just search in this thread, I am too lazy to make a link. The first scenario is totally pre-planned suicide (i.e. every step was deliberate, the text message to co-workers to explain not meeting them, cutting fingers to leave blood stains, turning the phone off, leaving the car, walking to the culvert, entering it with the bag on her head. The 2nd scenario was basically panic i.e. failed attempt with razor (found she couldn't make herself cut deeply enough or felt it might take too long), abandoning the car, looking for somewhere to end her life, stumbling across the culvert. The 3rd was some kind of medical event (sudden onset dementia or whatever) leading to confusion, disorientation and what is effectively an accidental death in the culvert.

My assumption is she put the bag over her head, tied it as best she could around her neck, then laid down in the water and waited to succumb. (We just had a drowning suicide --- no weights, no bag, knew how to swim - explain that?!) Despondent people can definitely will themselves to do things you or I would ordinarily have trouble doing. They can also attain a state of calm enough to let what is going to happen, happen. They can also simultaneously plan to kill themselves while feeding the dog, paying rent, and booking a vacation or whatever.

There's no real evidence I'm aware of that would support any one of these scenarios vs the others.

My gut tells me somewhere between the 1st and 2nd scenario because nothing to support a medical event came up in the autopsy though they can't detect everything. I would also say the culvert looks "attractive" for suicide. One might think it also would for dumping a body, but it isn't. Too near the road, though the water is a big plus to wash DNA away, but criminals aren't that smart usually. If I were dumping a body there, I'd go for the wooded area near it.

 

[otto]

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/drowning.html This explains how water can get into the lungs postmortem.

I cannot answer the question in regards to time of death related to petichia. I am not sure about that.

That's an interesting question. I had always thought that petichia is due to strangulation - violent pressure. Would drowning cause that type of eye injury?

 

[ANZAC]

Anzac, any feeling on where her phone and wallet are? Stashed in a bush or under a log or picked up by a passerby? Worth looking for between 58th and the culvert?

1. Found by LE/SAR and not disclosed in case it turns out to be a homicide and they need holdback info
2. Stashed by CD and not found yet or found by passerby
3. Stolen from body by passerby. (eg homeless person)

I lean to item 2. I gather from the news reports that at least two very thorough searches have been conducted.

The path between the car and the body (and areas surrounding) would have been prime search real estate and thoroughly searched. We don't always find everything. Searching in water is difficult.

 

[otto]

Well, we don't know. The did just say razor blade, which is just super odd to me.

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I'm curious whether razor blades were normally in the house. If they weren't, then there should be a record of a purchase on debit or credit card.

 

[Mamamerced]

Thing is
holding the bag closed u breathe
you are not getting fresh air u are breathing your CO2 till eventually u pass out.
She probably passed out then drowned.

She was not trying to strangle herself with it
JMO


http://www.fluther.com/80772/while-you-are-breathing-into-the-plastic-bag-what-happens-to/

That has been my understanding, too, but need some confirmation. Thanks.