Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #6

[Master Gee]

What about the innate reflex to breath? Does search and rescue volunteer training cover suicide methods, and how the mind overcomes reflex and innate desire to breath?

Thanks ANZAC...hope someone's innate desire kicks in

 

[otto]

you pass out from the CO2 you are breathing!
Then u fall under the water and drown!
what did I read this is the peaceful way to exit.

Where was she when she hyperventilated on carbon dioxide - knowing that she didn't want to be seen by a passing vehicle?

 

[Stripehaven]

I can't link from my phone, sorry, but wanted to share that the Everett Herald has an article about Cheryl on the front page. Headline: "Lack of evidence is a mystery."

 

[otto]

I can't link from my phone, sorry, but wanted to share that the Everett Herald has an article about Cheryl on the front page. Headline: "Lack of evidence is a mystery."

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20160323/NEWS01/160329601

 

[Eileen730]

Where was she when she hyperventilated on carbon dioxide - knowing that she didn't want to be seen by a passing vehicle?

in the culvert

 

[otto]

in the culvert

Standing hip deep in cold moving water at 8AM in February?

How long does suicide by carbon dioxide poisoning via plastic take-out bag take?

 

[Stripehaven]

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20160323/NEWS01/160329601

Thanks, Otto!

 

[otto]

At this time, it looks like her death is deemed: undetermined. That's good.

Were the cuts determined to be self-inflicted because she had a razor blade in her pocket? Is that a bit like assuming that gun to the head suicide is self-inflicted because the gun is in the pocket?

"The medical examiner labels cases undetermined when there is little available information about the circumstances surrounding the death or when known information equally supports, or conflicts with, more than one manner of death.

Wilson said DeBoer's car was locked and there were no signs of a struggle. Although blood spots were found inside her car and there were cuts on her fingers, medical experts determined that they were self-inflicted."

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20160323/NEWS01/160329601

A murder that is staged to look like a suicide might include locking the car door.

 

[Mollyandme]

.

Suicide makes no sense! But sadly ppl do it
I just gave a link describing what happens when u breathe into a plastic bag,
Was she upst was she angry was she despondent.
What happened the days before all this happened?
IMO there is more to the story but probably will never hear it.
I don't think she was murdered. But that's just my thoughts here nothing more!

This might sound crazy but I wonder if the ME tested her for toxoplasmosis. The only reason I bring this up is because the toxoplasma parasite lives in the gut of cats and comes out in their feces. changing litter boxes could produce exposure. Yes, this post probably sounds out of left field but based on what the family has said about her having no history of mental illness, could something like this have altered her mental state and normal behavior? According to the study linked below, which there are numerous articles on, women with toxoplasma infections who had no previous history of mental illness were 56% more likely to attempt suicide than the rest of the general population of women and twice as likely to succeed. I don't even know if this was a suicide, I'm still on the fence, but I do wonder if they tested for this.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...k-side-the-link-between-parasite-and-suicide/

 

[Eileen730]

Detectives are far from finished investigating the mysterious death of Cheryl DeBoer, but police say the evidence — or a lack of it — is pointing away from homicide

 

[Mamamerced]

What about the innate reflex to breath? Does search and rescue volunteer training cover suicide methods, and how the mind overcomes reflex and innate desire to breath?

The person still breathes but is breathing in gradually more carbon dioxide and less oxygen.

 

[PLT]

To piggy back, do you know of any suicide cases involving bags over the head and no drugs?

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I never read one that involved a bag. Water - yes, tree - yes, pills - yes, gun - yes. Never a take-out bag. I'm sitting here trying to hold my breath and can't imagine trying to will myself to not breathe. I'm not saying it couldn't happen to a person determined - but combine that with cold water and with nothing to dull the pain/uncomfort - I think I'd be up within minutes and headed to the pharmacy for sleeping pills . I'm not making light of this because if this ends up to be the case - my heart aches for someone who'd put themselves through such a horrible thing but I still do not believe this was the case.

I would rather hear that CD controlled her own fate/destiny versus someone taking it from her. Therefore, while I'd like to accept the suicide theory - something won't let me. If this was homocide - are we seeing the "perfect murder" in that there is such gray area on either side - nothing can be determined for sure? I'd hate for this all to end up "undetermined".

 

[Eileen730]

I never read one that involved a bag. Water - yes, tree - yes, pills - yes, gun - yes. Never a take-out bag. I'm sitting here trying to hold my breath and can't imagine trying to will myself to not breathe. I'm not saying it couldn't happen to a person determined - but combine that with cold water and with nothing to dull the pain/uncomfort - I think I'd be up within minutes and headed to the pharmacy for sleeping pills . I'm not making light of this because if this ends up to be the case - my heart aches for someone who'd put themselves through such a horrible thing but I still do not believe this was the case.

I would rather hear that CD controlled her own fate/destiny versus someone taking it from her. Therefore, while I'd like to accept the suicide theory - something won't let me. If this was homocide - are we seeing the "perfect murder" in that there is such gray area on either side - nothing can be determined for sure? I'd hate for this all to end up "undetermined".

You do not hold your breath!
you breathe in and out after all the fresh air is out of the bag u are breathing CO2 which will make u dizzy and pass out....

 

[kammiemc]

I'm curious whether razor blades were normally in the house. If they weren't, then there should be a record of a purchase on debit or credit card.

Unless it was an online purchase it could have been cash. Loose razor blades can be bought at drugstores for like $5.


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[Eileen730]

However, suicide by hanging and suffocation more than doubled during the study interval in individuals aged 45 to 59 years.

In suicide, suffocation occurs most commonly by hanging, but a person can also suffocate by putting a plastic bag over his or her head.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/774822

 

[Mamamerced]

Those of you that have been to the site where Cheryl was found, is it possible for her to be sitting or squatting waiting to pass out and then topple over into the water? That is how I picture it as opposed to standing or lying down waiting to pass out.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

I simply cannot imagine sitting or standing in a freezing cold culvert, on a drizzly February morning, waiting to pass out.....it seems every fiber of my being would cause me to jump out. I just can't imagine that my natural instinct, the will to survive, would not override the submersion or the lack of fresh air. I just don't get it.

 

[eucalyptuz]

I can buy a suicide theory. I don't like it, but I can see that even if everyone around her is convinced that she was fine, it's possible that she concealed a deep unhappiness. The fact that the police, from day one, reassured the public that they were safe suggests to me that perhaps they thought she had cause to disappear. Right or wrong, they must have been acting on something? An overheard argument? A medical referral? Evidence of infidelity? Something. Because the rest of us that are uninformed, well, we just don't see it...We were alarmed, and scared but repeatedly Mr Pickard stated "we're safe" and he didn't back down until the public and press hounded for reassurances and then finally generic safety tips were issued.

The thing I find most troubling is the negative tox screen and I wait impatiently to have it confirmed by authorities. Nearly every reference and study I can find on plastic bag suicide is aided by a strong dose of barbiturate. If a person becomes unconscious and therefore loses the instinctive, innate need to breathe apparently the bag can be quite loose and still be effective, especially if water is involved. But if there is no evidence of drugs? How can a person's brain overcome the body's primitive and automatic impulse to breathe?

 

[Mamamerced]

I simply cannot imagine sitting or standing in a freezing cold culvert, on a drizzly February morning, waiting to pass out.....it seems every fiber of my being would cause me to jump out. I just can't imagine that my natural instinct, the will to survive, would not override the submersion or the lack of fresh air. I just don't get it.

You are not suicidal, though. (And we don't know that Cheryl was, either.)
Suicidal people don't have a strong will to live, obviously. Also, you are breathing as normal all the while getting drowsier and drowsier until you pass out.

 

[Mamamerced]

Those of you that have been to the site where Cheryl was found, is it possible for her to be sitting or squatting waiting to pass out and then topple over into the water? That is how I picture it as opposed to standing or lying down waiting to pass out.

ETA: my apologies. I meant sitting on the "bank" of the ditch, not in the water.