Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #6

[JanetElaine]

If it were raining that morning - would she remove them just to prevent them from getting wet and being blurred especially if she didn't need them for distance? Not sure myself because it's been ages since I've worn glasses but my husband sometimes takes his off if they are getting wet or fogging up (going from cold to warm).

Well, I'm not Cheryl, but I think it is quite possible she could have. FWIW it is what I do. I despise getting rain on my glasses so I always have them in my pocket when I walk outside, even in a drizzle. I need them for distance but I'd rather have a bit blurry vision than have to deal with drying rain off them. Good question, I didn't even think of that.

 

[La Louve]

This might sound crazy but I wonder if the ME tested her for toxoplasmosis. The only reason I bring this up is because the toxoplasma parasite lives in the gut of cats and comes out in their feces. changing litter boxes could produce exposure. Yes, this post probably sounds out of left field but based on what the family has said about her having no history of mental illness, could something like this have altered her mental state and normal behavior? According to the study linked below, which there are numerous articles on, women with toxoplasma infections who had no previous history of mental illness were 56% more likely to attempt suicide than the rest of the general population of women and twice as likely to succeed. I don't even know if this was a suicide, I'm still on the fence, but I do wonder if they tested for this.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...k-side-the-link-between-parasite-and-suicide/

I've been wondering about toxoplasmosis too. But after posts yesterday from the cat rescue lady (justiceforcheryl ) it sounds like the new kitty would've been tested before being adopted out.

 

[Yvettea]

You are not suicidal, though. (And we don't know that Cheryl was, either.)
Suicidal people don't have a strong will to live, obviously. Also, you are breathing as normal all the while getting drowsier and drowsier until you pass out.

It's not true that you get drowsier until you pass out. Your body tries harder to get the oxygen you need until you remove the bag.

 

[DatelineFan]

You are not suicidal, though. (And we don't know that Cheryl was, either.)
Suicidal people don't have a strong will to live, obviously. Also, you are breathing as normal all the while getting drowsier and drowsier until you pass out.

But breathing is involuntary. It doesn't matter if you're suicidal or not.

 

[Aunt_Tulip]

I can see how the plastic bag may have become "loosely affixed" after having been in moving water for days, but I'm wondering if its possible to have tightly affixed the bag over her head enough to asphyxiate her, but not leave any marks?

 

[rotary_dial]

To clarify something, the chief stated the bag was "loosely secured over her head".
link

That could be open to a number of interpretations. A few I could think of include tape, string, rubber band, ripped piece of cloth. Nowhere has it been stated that it was tied, as I've seen a couple of people mention.

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[cluciano63]

I admit I will be shocked if this death is ruled a murder. It would certainly be among the strangest ever, i.e the time of day, the cause of death etc...unless there was an obvious suspect, as it seems too personal and detailed for some random crazy. Everything I have read points to suicide, but jmo. Less than half of suicides leave notes and many show no overt signs leading up to the act. But all of this is jmo and impressions.

 

[Mamamerced]

It's not true that you get drowsier until you pass out. Your body tries harder to get the oxygen you need until you remove the bag.

Drowsy is not a good word to use, I agree. I should have said something like until you lose consciousness.

Here is an excerpt from an article that explains a bit about the process. I have to go back to find the website, though

"Nitschke & Stewart1 and Derek Humphry2 recommend the sort of oven bag you roast a turkey in. Thin plastic bags where the plastic will easily stick to the face are not recommended, although Stone3 mentions that wearing a hat with a brim can avoid this problem. The bigger the bag, the slower the asphyxiation. Whatever the bag size though, there does need to be some seal around the neck. It does not need to be tight - an elastic band or a loop of elastic should do the trick.

The major drawback of this method is running out of oxygen in the bag whilst still conscious. Humans, whatever their mental state, have an underlying strong desire to stay alive, so are likely to tear or remove the bag in this situation. A bigger bag may be the answer, although it is always hard to know how long it will take for any given drug dose to render unconsciousness, and whether the oxygen in the proposed bag size will last more or less than that time. In Final Exit Derek Humphry talks about elasticating the bag, then holding the bottom open so breathing is easy until consciousness is lost, when the elastic would gently close the bag around the head."

 

[desertmama]

You are not suicidal, though. (And we don't know that Cheryl was, either.)
Suicidal people don't have a strong will to live, obviously. Also, you are breathing as normal all the while getting drowsier and drowsier until you pass out.

Uh, no. You do not get " drowsier" until you pass out. With all due respect to seeming "suicide experts " with all the answers, I have avoided posting all but quick questions and observations. Many years ago I attempted suicide by suffication. Twice. I'd rather not go into details, but , the primal urge for survival overcame the desire for death. Cold water is reviving. I can't imagine for one minute waiting for death in cold water, one flimsy unsealed bag, no alcohol or drugs to take the edge off. And it's not a quick death. Suffocation takes a while.
I'm sorry. It's a lot more than putting a bag over your face and sticking your head in the water and boom...done. I can think of at least two scenarios where she could have been abducted and ened up where she was found, in the state she was found in.

Of course, my personal experience and opinion only, of course.

 

[Jen Darme]

Drowsy is not a good word to use, I agree. I should have said something like until you lose consciousness.

Here is an excerpt from an article that explains a bit about the process. I have to go back to find the website, though

"Nitschke & Stewart1 and Derek Humphry2 recommend the sort of oven bag you roast a turkey in. Thin plastic bags where the plastic will easily stick to the face are not recommended, although Stone3 mentions that wearing a hat with a brim can avoid this problem. The bigger the bag, the slower the asphyxiation. Whatever the bag size though, there does need to be some seal around the neck. It does not need to be tight - an elastic band or a loop of elastic should do the trick.

The major drawback of this method is running out of oxygen in the bag whilst still conscious. Humans, whatever their mental state, have an underlying strong desire to stay alive, so are likely to tear or remove the bag in this situation. A bigger bag may be the answer, although it is always hard to know how long it will take for any given drug dose to render unconsciousness, and whether the oxygen in the proposed bag size will last more or less than that time. In Final Exit Derek Humphry talks about elasticating the bag, then holding the bottom open so breathing is easy until consciousness is lost, when the elastic would gently close the bag around the head."

Red bolding and larger text of "drug dose" mine.

You're quoting Lost All Hope: Plastic bags & drugs

 

[Yvettea]

it is always hard to know how long it will take for any given drug dose to render unconsciousness,

The method relies on drugs to produce unconsciousness. Stryker 57 said her tox screen was clean.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Wyle_E_Coyote, haven't I seen you on the Karen Swift thread? If so, do you recall if there were injuries to Karen's body?

This is similar, except the victim is older. A 53 year old woman, having no known personal or work related issues, is found 1.5 miles away from where she should be, beside a 6 foot diameter culvert drowned in a 2-3 foot deep creek. She is fully dressed, and her phone is missing. She has a plastic bag over her head and died from drowning.

Thoughts?

Yes, I followed that one closely. I don't recall injuries .. I think they never released that info.

But Karen was in the middle of a nasty divorce, and I believe her husband was a poi very early, although he hasn't been arrested. So circumstances are very different.

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[Mamamerced]

I should always post with the disclaimer IMO. Also, I use a mini iPad Which is difficult for me to type on so I don't explain myself as well as I should out of sheer laziness. I apologize for rankling many of you with my statements/opinions.
I obviously am no expert on suicide and certainly didn't mean to represent myself as such.
I have read many articles over the years on suicide because my grandmother, cousin and too many friends or their children have taken their own lives, although not by a plastic bag. My mother unsuccessfully attempted suicide. It scares me beyond reason.
So, I will refrain from posting more on this method, although I do believe it's possible but not easy.

 

[Aunt_Tulip]

I keep getting hung up on the fact that there were no ligature marks. Wouldn't elastic or a rubber band cause them? Or could whatever it was have broken away after losing consciousness, but before leaving marks? I really have no idea.

 

[Justiceforcheryl]

I've been wondering about toxoplasmosis too. But after posts yesterday from the cat rescue lady (justiceforcheryl ) it sounds like the new kitty would've been tested before being adopted out.

I am not a rescue. I am a breeder and shower of registered kitties. All of my cats are routinely tested for toxo and shockingly I've never had a positive. Heck after 25 years of breeding and showing and working at a vet I'm still negative! That was quite the shock when I was pregnant. I thought for sure I would be positive!

 

[krig101]

I keep getting hung up on the fact that there were no ligature marks. Wouldn't elastic or a rubber band cause them? Or could whatever it was have broken away after losing consciousness, but before leaving marks? I really have no idea.

There are so many pieces to this case that make absolutely no sense. Hopefully that is not always the case.

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[ANZAC]

But she was in shallow water. I believe she would have the urge to sit up.

As I said despondent people are able to will themselves to do things you or I would not. I know it is difficult to believe. e.g. I found someone who stabbed themselves 10+ times in the chest.

 

[Spiritecho]

IMOO

1. I really don't believe she hit an animal, scooped it up, placed it in her car. She was seen leaving at approx 6:55ish from her home, the car was seen at 7 am, she texts the carpool at 7:02 stating she left her badge and needed 10 mins. We know she never left that area in her car back towards home. I would also think she would have told the carpool she hit something that needed attention vs leaving her badge, and finally, the blood was tested and did not match domestic animals(i think this is what was said)

2. I really don't think she received a much wanted cat from a person who held the cat for her as well as being a breeder and a vet tech (my daughter is one so I have some knowledge) with matted hair that required a razor blade...perhaps this has been clarified and I missed it. Perhaps this is a long haired cat which could need their matted hair removed daily to prevent hairballs. I will ask my daughter for her experience.

 

[ANZAC]

I simply cannot imagine sitting or standing in a freezing cold culvert, on a drizzly February morning, waiting to pass out.....it seems every fiber of my being would cause me to jump out. I just can't imagine that my natural instinct, the will to survive, would not override the submersion or the lack of fresh air. I just don't get it.

I've seen someone do this, in winter, without a bag over their head. Or rather, seen them after it was done.
It was about 6" of water, and they were sitting and wound up face down to the side.

 

[ANZAC]

But breathing is involuntary. It doesn't matter if you're suicidal or not.

Breathing underwater doesn't work very well. People here seem to be focused on the bag not the water.